Budget Disappeared.

Robert

The lost budget problem got substantially worse for me last summer when I started to use the "Bills & Income" tab and pay bills using Quicken Quick Pay.   I also was experiencing lots of crashes as well when I would switch tabs.  I finally gave up on this and deleted all my billers from quicken and deleted everything in the "Bills & Income" tab.   Since then, the crashes and the lost budgets have stopped.   Of course, I've done and continue to do all the workarounds in the posts above.   But I wanted to mention this as there seems to be a problem if you use both the "Planning" function and the "Bills & Income" function -- particularly if you use them in the same session (e.g. less of a problem if you close quicken and restart so you only use one or the other during one session)

hjfcfonew

Completely uninstalling and reinstalling sounds scary and also time consuming. I've not done that for a few years. I have done numerous super validations mostly due to my following this thread and trying to solve the disappearing budget issue, but that did not help with either problem. I'll try updating .net and see how that goes. Thanks.

mtn_living

I moved to a new windows 11 computer two weeks ago which is similar to uninstall and reinstall and was completely smooth transition.  Am uninstall and reinstall is probably a 15 minute process.

CMRater

Sounds like the only time to dare to go into the planning tab is immediately after opening the the dummy file first.  Sounds like Quicken can’t stay stable enough throughout a session to reliably re-enter the planning tab after doing other tasks.  Can’t say I am very surprised.  Guess that means get all your planning tab tasks done at once, run a budget report to confirm budgets present and back up.  To be honest, that’s how I have been proceeding as I don’t trust Quicken stability.  All the techniques suggested are bandaid workarounds until a true fix is provided by the the Quicken development team.  Hope it is soon.

mtn_living

In my case I can reliably go into planning/budget with no issues and it is how I check that I still have the budget. this may differ for others.

CMRater

Do you go through the open dummy file process mtn_living or is Quicken working properly for you without any precautionary steps to enter planning/budgets?

mtn_living

at the moment the only precautions I take is very frequent backing up. never did adopt the open dummy file routine. have been ok for a while now.

CMRater

Good for you!  What do you attribute your stability too?

mobleyw

For What It’s Worth…
After starting this dialog in the Quicken Community back on June 15, 2022, the number of users affected by this issue of disappearing budgets has continued to increase. The problem is common. Shortly after initiating that post, Quicken Anja suggested turning off cloud sync to prevent recurrence. Many have commented that this maneuver has not resolved the problem and even though Cloud sync is turned off, cloud sync continues to occur regularly with File Restores - utilized in an effort to recover budgets.

We had some additional direct collaboration with Quicken engineers in July at which time a patch was sent out, first to try, and then generally released. As noted since July the problem persists and seems to affect more and more very frustrated users. In September from MtnLiving: important: word is they think they have figured root cause of issue and a fix is coming soon. finger’s crossed. (We all continue to wait. As the new year approaches many of us will hopefully be able to work within the Planning tab on new budgets without losing them…)

Many workaround “band aids” have been recommended by the community which has helped some recover some budgets. MtnLiving and CM Rader have been especially helpful.

Although I have not contributed recently, I continue to monitor this communication series as budget loss remains a persistent problem for me – and many others.
Some of my observations:
1. While seemingly random, my budget seems to disappear when I ask Quicken to perform it’s most complicated tasks:
a. Show me my budget in the planning tab
b. Show me my Home Page which contains multiple reports and complicated tasks.
c. If I move my mouse too fast to the next step, like completing an account update, then IMMEDIATELY clicking on the Planning Tab. If, on the other hand, I simply pause and wait a few seconds after say… an account update, I note that budget loss occurs less frequently.
d. FYI: I have a 1-year-old MSoft PC loaded with memory.

2. My band aids: (my last budget loss was on November 7...)
a. My startup screen is now “Budget” (See File – Preferences – Startup”. My Quicken file seems to load very slowly, but the first screen is my Budget with the Planning tab open. I note that subsequent Planning tab/Budget loading occurs much more rapidly – when it does not disappear.
b. I back up VERY frequently (spending a large amount of what should be unnecessary time) – and when I do, I click the Planning tab (after a pause as above) and then do the backup with my budget visualized. I developed this habit after multiple encounters with “Support” when they informed me the problem was mine – that I had mistakenly erased my budget prior to my backup. I name the backup file “date – time …with budget” signifying I was visualizing the budget when I initiated the backup. Upon reopening the Quicken file after backup the budget is immediately visualized on the StartUp screen.
c. When I lose my budget, I go back to the most recent backup, which showed the budget. Trying to restore it usually results in the same message we all get that the budget is gone. I know it’s not, but it’s worthless if I cannot visualize it.
d. I then go to the previous backup, also named “…with budget”. Sometimes (randomly) the budget is visualized with that prior backup, sometimes not, seemingly random.
e. Regardless, I have learned that going back and forth, trying to Restore the 2 most recent backups will eventually Restore one of them with the budget visualized, again, quite random. If the Restored file is not the most recent backup, I then AGAIN Restore the most recent backup, it then shows the budget, resulting in very little data loss since I backup so frequently.
f. Such random repetitive Restores of exactly the same files which eventually “recover = revisualize” the Budget seems to resemble the use of the Dummy file noted in previous communications which somehow allows the budget to subsequently visualize in the real data file.
g. Still, even with CloudSync Off in preferences, these Restores frequently show my bank accounts uploading to and downloading from the Quicken Cloud.

I remain hopeful of a fix soon.
Some adjustment/moderation in the apparently annual increase in Quicken subscription cost might be in order since the Budget function is compromised with a common bug – and perhaps a full disclosure to all users that the Planning Tab Budget function has this “bug”. Publicizing the work arounds we have found here after months of time, trials, and errors would likely benefit many users.

mtn_living

CMRater said:

Good for you!  What do you attribute your stability too?

I am not really sure. I could attribute it to a new much faster notebook running Windows 11 but had pretty good stability before that. Not running any other software at same time seems to help. It may also be the turkey feather I burn while standing on one foot each time I open Quicken. Just kidding on the last one. I also suspect but am not sure that let Quicken thoroughly complete each task before moving to next might help, eg not clicking around too fast. Hoping they nail a fix soon but as pointed out it’s been quite a while since engineers released that first beta fix attempt.

CMRater

Thanks mtn_living.
I recall another customer noting that he had the problem even with Windows 11.  For whatever reason the dummy file process continues to work for me when I need to enter the planning/budget tab.  Have been conditioned to avoid that tab but at least seem to be able enter and edit when I need to with the dummy file method which I would think would offer clues the development team.

blackcoffee

I no longer have disappearing budgets! The bad news is that I can no longer create a budget because apparently my Quicken file contains no budgetable accounts or categories.

CMRater

After you reopen the file you should be able to create budgets again assuming you don’t want to restore a from a recent backup with budgets.  A few posts earlier, I shared the benefits of a file copy to strip out file “impurities” which may help stabilize your file.  Just something to consider realizing that you will have reconnect all bank accounts.

DPowis85$

About 2 weeks ago I opened Quicken and discovered that my all my budget data had disappeared. I back up frequently but I had to go back over a week to find a backup that I could restore that had my budget data in it. I did a one step update but It was still necessary to re-key in data such as future scheduled payments, budget categories, memos. etc.

I do not use mobile web or any cloud based sync's.

As time has progressed, now, every morning when I start Quicken my budget data is missing. I go to my last backup from the previous day and restore but the budget data is still missing. After trying many things and experiencing frustrating moments, I have discovered that If I uninstall Quicken and then re-install, I can restore from the previous days back up and the budget data is back. So, the budget data has not been deleted, it is just not recognized by the application until I uninstall / reinstall. I can then open and close Quicken multiple times and the budget data is there.

But wait, there's more, tomorrow it starts all over again...the perpetual ground hog day! Could it have something to do with the "date" changing. I have not tried opening Quicken right after midnight to see if the budget data fails.

My latest tactic was to uninstall Quicken and re-install a fresh copy, in a new location and on an external SSD hard drive, different from where it was previously installed. I was able to restore from previous backup, the budget data was back and all is working fine.

I will update this post tomorrow morning and let you know if the budget data has disappeared again....

CMRater

Welcome to the “Hotel California” DP 😊

We feel your pain.  My first suggestion is to consider a file copy routine described above if you have not already done so recently.  This is supposed to strip away any potential legacy file corruption that I’m told by Quicken support the validation options may not catch.  Downside is that you have reconnect your bank accounts to quicken, but then at least you have more “cleansed” file.  Other than this the most helpful process to access budgets through the Planning Tab that I have found is the use of the Dummy file routine described on 22 and 24 October in this thread.  This process presupposes that your budgets could be used to run a budget report just prior to your latest backup which be every few minutes going forward until a fix is prepared.  C-trl B makes this pretty quick along with date and time backup stamp which allows you make backups every minute.

One other point worth sharing is that when restoring a file you think has budgets, don’t give up if they don’t reappear on the first try.  Some of us have discovered that trying a few more times from the same file can actually recover the budget on the 2nd or 3rd try.  I know this thread has grown quite large, but there are a lot of interesting points especially among the most recent posts that you (and the development team) may find useful.

Hope this helps.

CMRater

The problem has stopped for me since employing the “dummy” file process.  I have created via copy a 2023 file as well.  Until then I had avoided multiple budgets for fear that it puts the unstable software too far.  I will note that several months ago I did have problems reentering budget data as the file kept crashing every 5-10 minutes.

mtn_living

Couple of thoughts:

1) The reinstall Quicken and put all data in a whole new place is an intriguing clue and wonder if it will hold up. Since I installed on my new machine I too have (fingers crossed) been ok.
2) I had just given up on budgeting all together due to this issue. In the summer I went back and recreated my 2022 budget from scratch. Still lost it so that wasn't a solution.

LowcarbNY

CMRater said:

Here is another suggestion for ensuring a "clean file".
Perform a File Copy/ Create Copy or Template.  A Quicken rep told me if you can successfully copy your file, the resultant copy has been stripped of most/any issues."

Been there, tried that. I've losing budgets for many years. I've moved across many versions of Q and across many new computers. Doing a validation and then file copy used to have a high degree of success in restoring stability for a while. Not so with the problem that has been so widespread this year. Doing a validation before opening my data file doing the file shuffle suggested by user @Joseph Hanna (open a dummy file 1st, then open my data file), are the only workarounds that have been successful for me this year.

LowcarbNY

CMRater said:

Thanks mtn_living.
I recall another customer noting that he had the problem even with Windows 11

I had the issue on both Windows 10 and Windows 11 this year. Migrating from older laptop on W10 to new one on W11 improved performance and initial file opening speed but had no difference of the frequency of Budget loss as far as I could discern.

DPowis85$

Reference my post yesterday, November 25, 2022....After reinstalling a fresh copy of Quicken in a new location, on a different hard drive yesterday, Quicken opened up normally with all my data intact. I did a one step update, backed up the data file and closed Quicken. I re-opened Quicken from the data file, not the current back up and Quicken opened normally, all data was intact. So, my initial conclusion is that the re-install in a different location may have solved my problem but...tomorrow is another day. I will update this post tomorrow.

DPowis85$

Reference my post yesterday, November 26, 2022 and on November 25, 2022....Quicken opened up this morning without any Budget Data. I had to restore from a previous backup. I guess my strategy of re-installing in a different location was not a solution to the problem.

I know this problem has been on-going for quite some time but is there some way to get the attention of the Quicken Developers? After 20+ years, I would really like to continue with Quicken, but this is a very significant problem with the functionality of the application.

I am on Windows 10....

mtn_living

DPowis85$ said:

Reference my post yesterday, November 26, 2022 and on November 25, 2022....Quicken opened up this morning without any Budget Data. I had to restore from a previous backup. I guess my strategy of re-installing in a different location was not a solution to the problem.

I know this problem has been on-going for quite some time but is there some way to get the attention of the Quicken Developers? After 20+ years, I would really like to continue with Quicken, but this is a very significant problem with the functionality of the application.

I am on Windows 10....

If you scroll back through prior posts you will see Quicken engineering and software QC are well aware of this problem and have been working on it for some time. During summer they supplied a beta fix to some users but it did not work. They continue to work on the problem and without being specific about the cause indicate it’s a tough thing to fix. They have stated they hope to have a fix fairly soon but that’s been the promise for a while now. A few of us suspect that it has something to do with memory or storage management for large files. Pointers in this direction are many of those on this thread a long time Quicken users with lots of historic data. Maybe when data file reaches some level of size of complexity it runs into a wall. Anyway, in summary, this is being worked on diligently.

mtn_living

catonyx said:

mtn_living said:

DPowis85$ said:

Reference my post yesterday, November 26, 2022 and on November 25, 2022....Quicken opened up this morning without any Budget Data. I had to restore from a previous backup. I guess my strategy of re-installing in a different location was not a solution to the problem.

I know this problem has been on-going for quite some time but is there some way to get the attention of the Quicken Developers? After 20+ years, I would really like to continue with Quicken, but this is a very significant problem with the functionality of the application.

I am on Windows 10....

If you scroll back through prior posts you will see Quicken engineering and software QC are well aware of this problem and have been working on it for some time. During summer they supplied a beta fix to some users but it did not work. They continue to work on the problem and without being specific about the cause indicate it’s a tough thing to fix. They have stated they hope to have a fix fairly soon but that’s been the promise for a while now. A few of us suspect that it has something to do with memory or storage management for large files. Pointers in this direction are many of those on this thread a long time Quicken users with lots of historic data. Maybe when data file reaches some level of size of complexity it runs into a wall. Anyway, in summary, this is being worked on diligently.

If this is true, it would nice if they had some advice to those suffering with this. I suspect that the data is still in my file just no longer accessible from the GUI. So, should I keep limping along? Should I avoid creating new budgets once I lose them? Maybe a future update would be able to restore lost budgets. Hard to know what to do here.

In my case recreating my 2022 budget in July or so and using CTRL+B for backup almost to absurdity after going into planning/budget to see if budget ok, like every 5-10 steps, plus a regular super validate have made things tolerable. I even do a backup as soon as I’ve opened Quicken as soon as I check the budget. My data file is 324 MB. 

Everyone who has this issue should be sure to report it through the error reporting feature in Quicken to keep the pressure on.

DPowis85$

I think that my next step will be to make a back up, then go through my data file and delete all my closed accounts. This way, at least, I will be able to determine if the problem is related to memory or storage management of large files. I will work on that tomorrow....and will post progress and results.