Credit Score - "Credit Card Usage"

ToddJ

Can anyone tell me why Quicken lists mortgage debt as "credit card usage?" It's not the end of the world for me by any means, but I have a few properties, and two of them have a mortgage on them. I pay my credit cards off at the end of the month, but when I look at my credit score, it shows all of my mortgage debt under "Credit Card Debt" ... which seems kind of ridiculous. Can anyone tell me why this is, and why Quicken uses this model? For a financial product like Quicken, I'd figure that they'd probably want to use one of the better credit models... any thoughts?

Beijing Mac

Quicken has a bug in it's program for this feature (as admitted by the Quicken admin, but refuted by the "superusers".  They have said it is fixed, but I am experiencing same bug when it states the credit score on my Quicken program.  Even after they "claimed" it was corrected, the report within the Quicken program is combining mortgages with credit card score, hence a high credit utilization and it negatively affects the credit score.  every bank / credit card website I go to where I have accounts shows a FICO credit score these days and none of them are combining mortgage with CC debt.  by logical deduction this is purely a Quicken issue.   

Beijing Mac

Quicken has a bug in it's program for this feature (as admitted by the Quicken admin, but refuted by the "superusers".  They have said it is fixed, but I am experiencing same bug when it states the credit score on my Quicken program.  Even after they "claimed" it was corrected, the report within the Quicken program is combining mortgages with credit card score, hence a high credit utilization and it negatively affects the credit score.  every bank / credit card website I go to where I have accounts shows a FICO credit score these days and none of them are combining mortgage with CC debt.  by logical deduction this is purely a Quicken issue.   

ToddJ

> @Beijing Mac said:
> Quicken has a bug in it's program for this feature (as admitted by the Quicken admin, but refuted by the "superusers".  They have said it is fixed, but I am experiencing same bug when it states the credit score on my Quicken program.  Even after they "claimed" it was corrected, the report within the Quicken program is combining mortgages with credit card score, hence a high credit utilization and it negatively affects the credit score.  every bank / credit card website I go to where I have accounts shows a FICO credit score these days and none of them are combining mortgage with CC debt.  by logical deduction this is purely a Quicken issue.   


Thanks Mac, I really appreciate the response. I am really glad to hear that there are a few others that have this problem as well... I was starting to think it was just me.

Unfortunately, there are a couple of credit card companies that I have a card with that also lump mortgages into credit card debt. I can't remember... but I had a couple of credit cards that I've had since I was like... I dunno... mid 20s. They were garbage cards like Capital One (new name for an older bank they bought), but they were credit building cards I suppose. They also list that too. I've closed those accounts, and the only other place I've seen that now is just Quicken. Thank you for responding... It definitely makes me feel better knowing it's not just me.

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Chris_QPW

For what it worth, that looks like a web page that was generated by the credit bureau and as such they need to fix it.  That is the real problem with "third-party services", when things go wrong it is hard to get all parties on the same page and fix things.

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Chris_QPW

@DocGer Yes they “own”, but that doesn’t mean that they can actually fix it.  They are a customer just like you.  Can you force Quicken Inc to fix anything?

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Chris_QPW

Let me say that I personally wouldn’t run a business like Quicken Inc or Intuit does.
You are quite correct on how I would probably handle this kind of problem, Quicken Inc and Intuit doesn’t seem to share the same values.

They seem to be perfectly fine with a product that “sometimes works”, and with features that have been broken for years.  In other words, their answers for your three points would be:

1. Every once in a while check back with the third-party service and ask when they might fix the problem.
2. They don’t fire third-parties, because they have invested time in the feature, and they have customers using it.  And also note in their space there are very few third-party services providing anyone of these given service, and even if there are others they not guaranteed they will be better. And there is also “contracts”, sometimes you can just fire them.
3. The seems that they rather have a feature that doesn’t work, than have customers complain that they don’t have the feature.  They get complaints either way, but they can still put it on their feature list.

Chris_QPW

Actually I left something out that I should have really qualified.  I wouldn’t run my business that way, and the result would be if I had a business like Quicken I would lose money, and probably go broke.

I’m not a businessman, yes I have done contract work, but the leverage is completely different.  To make money Quicken has to try to provide the services that their customers request.  If the choices are 99% or nothing, yes they are going to pick 99% even if it will be headache to support.  And there just isn’t any way that Quicken can dictate to the credit bureaus, whatever the credit bureau is getting from Quicken Inc for their service is going to be a drop in the bucket for them, and they probably view it more as a favor/advertising then anything else.

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ToddJ

To be fair... I really do like Quicken. I completely detested it when I first got it. I felt betrayed, angered, and wanted to destroy something (haha). But once I figured out how the system works, it's now an integral part of my lifestyle. It's incredibly useful at tax time, and there's a lot of features.

That said, I recognize that Quicken has a constant uphill battle that they must fight as every single biller and / or bank and financial institution is constantly changing their own logins to improve their own security. Quicken has to keep on top of all of them. Sometimes these companies make changes without any care whatsoever the effect it will have on the other billers, so I recognize this is an incredibly painful process.

I don't blame Quicken for this failure, they are merely reproducing the data from the 3rd party. I did some research, I hope I don't offend anyone with what I'm about to say, but I discovered that the VantageScore 3 is a unique scoring system that was designed (at the time) for Millennials. The concept was that they generally did not own homes, and nearly all of their debt was student loan and credit card debt. Because of this, they lumped everything into one itemization, which they referred to as revolving debt, which most people consider credit card debt.

The VantageScore 3 was designed to give "quick" changes to your credit based on even the most insignificant improvements in your financial habits. This was meant to encourage the younger generation by giving them more positive feedback quickly. This is contrary to most other credit scoring systems that put far more consideration on historical behavior and your long-term track record.

Apparently, everyone who uses the VantageScore 3 has the same kind of results. I can't remember if I mentioned it above, but when I was younger, I had signed up for a couple of credit cards that were credit building cards back in the 2000s. I still have one of these (I've closed most of the other ones), and that one also uses VantageScore 3. Cards like my Amex or Chase-backed card do not use the VantageScore 3.

I'd have to assume that since Quicken is not just used by old farts (trailing Gen-Xer here), but is also used by Millennials and Gen-Zs to help get themselves out of debt... it would make sense they'd use this. Me personally, I would like to see them fix this... but I understand why it is what it is...

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ToddJ

> @DocGer said:
> According to the Quicken HELP file, Quicken gets its Credit Score info from Equifax.
>
> No where does Equifax add your mortgage balance to the current credit card balance. Not on the Equifax site, not on my bank site which provides my credit score for free, not on my credit card site which also provides my credit score for free and not on any of the credit score apps you can download on your cell.

Hi Doc... I just went through all my credit cards to try to see if any of them do this. And I discovered that my Chase-backed card (Marriot Rewards) does in fact also use the VantageScore 3.0, with data provided by Experian. I can confirm that my Chase card does in fact ALSO lump everything into one total, just like Quicken does. So while I agree that it's frustrating, I can confirm that it is in fact an issue with VantageScore 3.0 and not Quicken or Chase.

In the image I attached below, I've scrubbed out my bank account companies (no one needs to know that). You'll see that it says VantageScore 3.0, and shows my total debt which lumps the credit cards in with the mortgage debt. This is entirely, entirely a thing related to VantageScore 3.0.

Also... if I could be a bit narcissistic here... that score is horrendous. Every other site shows me having a significantly higher credit score. I'm embarassed. Also, I use my Amex (first card) for everything, so don't judge me... I put my bills on there when I can, and I pay it off every billing statement, haha. Anyway... just wanted to share this to relieve some shade from Quicken.

Jim_Harman

If the issue is indeed with the difference between the VantageScore 3.0 rating and others, I would think that someone at Quicken, perhaps the person who negotiated the deal with Equifax, would know that and be able to explain it. 

We run into similar issues with other third party data in Quicken, a prime example being stock quotes. Issues are reported here and apparently also to Quicken Support, but it seems there is no mechanism to explain or resolve them.

As it is, everyone, including the Moderators, is being kept in the dark.

Beijing Mac

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7922433/remove-credit-score-feature-from-quicken#latest

please upvote my recommendation to simply remove this confusion.  As it seems from previous comments, many users simply go to another source (such as CC site / other bank/FI) for checking credit score and feature within Quicken is useless.

BOB139

@ToddJ It would be interesting if you can pull your official Equifax credit report from www.annualcreditreport.com and post back exactly how this mortgage loan appears there.

Don't go off what any credit reporting site shows, as they usually don't show complete details.

It is possible it's a quirk based on how exactly this particular loan is reporting. I know for example that an HELOC would report as a revolving account and in some instances some credit scores may count it towards your credit card utilization.

I've attached an excerpt from an Equifax credit report highlighting some points to observe.