Missing Shares from TIAA

Patrick Hasenjager

Just seeing if anyone else is having a similar issue. I have multiple accounts with TIAA-CREF and since Wednesday they have no shares when I try to reconcile shares. On their website, it still shows accurate. This is through a Direct Connect connection.

I have already reset the connection, disconnected/reconnected, and tried in a new file. Using the latest Windows release.

FrankP53

Same here - and both TIAA and Quicken are unable/unwilling to assist

NotACPA

TIAA is sending a 0 for shares held. Q can do nothing  about that.   Bug TIAA to get it right.

NebularNovice

At some point Quicken has to be proactive and work with TIAA. Telling us to bug TIAA does not cut it.

Jaguar

I encountered the same problem beginning about two weeks or so ago. I got in touch with a TIAA software person. He told me that I was not alone and that TIAA was working to fix it. So far it's not fixed, so my TIAA accounts in Quicken grow increasingly out of date. A bummer for tax purposes.

Jim_Harman

If TIAA is downloading 0 for the number of shares, you can always go to their website to find the correct number and edit the transaction in Quicken. A pain but not a permanent problem.

NotACPA

NebularNovice said:

At some point Quicken has to be proactive and work with TIAA. Telling us to bug TIAA does not cut it.

Q can do NOTHING about this.  It's ENTIRELY a TIAA problem and ONLY TIAA can fix it.

NebularNovice

> @Jim_Harman said:
> If TIAA is downloading 0 for the number of shares, you can always go to their website to find the correct number and edit the transaction in Quicken. A pain but not a permanent problem.

Of course I can, but I don't pay Quicken its annual fee to allow me to do manual updating of accounts just because Quicken can't make things work.

In one sense Quicken has never worked properly with TIAA Traditional, but the problem with other TIAA holdings is new.

NebularNovice

> @NotACPA said:
> Q can do NOTHING about this.  It's ENTIRELY a TIAA problem and ONLY TIAA can fix it.

What makes you so sure of this? The evidence says otherwise.

From my testing Quicken is receiving correct shares information from TIAA when Simple Positions is checked for an account. All Quicken has to do is figure out how to use that information properly when Complete Positions and Transactions is checked. That's clearly a Quicken problem.

Jim_Harman

Quicken uses different downloaded data when running in Simple mode.

If you want to dig deeper into this issue, you can review the OFX log to see what data TIAA is sending to Quicken.

Chris_QPW

NebularNovice said:

> @NotACPA said:
> Q can do NOTHING about this.  It's ENTIRELY a TIAA problem and ONLY TIAA can fix it.

What makes you so sure of this? The evidence says otherwise.

From my testing Quicken is receiving correct shares information from TIAA when Simple Positions is checked for an account. All Quicken has to do is figure out how to use that information properly when Complete Positions and Transactions is checked. That's clearly a Quicken problem.

Jim_Harman said:

Quicken uses different downloaded data when running in Simple mode.

If you want to dig deeper into this issue, you can review the OFX log to see what data TIAA is sending to Quicken.

NotACPA said:

TIAA is sending a 0 for shares held. Q can do nothing  about that.   Bug TIAA to get it right.

Here is a summary of what how this works and how that affects the Complete and Simple investing modes, and why it is in fact a TIAA problem.

In the downloaded data (in the Help -> Contact Support -> Log Files -> OFX Log) there is two main sections, the transactions and the summary information about your positions and cash balances.

When in Complete mode Quicken takes the transactions from that downloaded information and they go into your register, and that is what Quicken shows for your positions and cash balance.  At the same time if turned on for the account it will also compare what is recorded in the register to what was sent by the financial institution in the summary part of that downloaded information and report a difference if they aren't the same (the security positions, not the cash balance which isn't in the compare).  You can invoke the same compare any time by selecting the gear icon and then "Reconcile Shares". It has already been reported, that with TIAA that this compare always fails because TIAA isn't sending the right share amounts in that summary data.  Now mind you that there is a recent but that complicates getting at the right information.  Starting in R45.xx Quicken now has a bug that for some people/securities the compare isn't being done right.  This just one problem lumped on top of another.  The actual bug in Quicken affects other financial institution's but the one of reporting the wrong information in the OFX data is TIAA's alone.

Now Simple investment mode ignores the downloaded transactions.  It only looks at the security summary information, and then it places transactions in the (hidden) register to set the shares/prices for those securities. Clearly, if the security summary information sent is wrong, the Simple mode will always be wrong.

NebularNovice

I would love to look at the log -- but unfortunately when I try, I am told "Navigation to the webpage was canceled" then can't reach "http://qw.exe"

Looking at your description, I have to wonder why Quicken Complete ignores the summary data which is used by Simple and is apparently correct as displayed by Simple.

Or are you saying that in Complete mode, Quicken ignores the summary information unless asked to Reconcile?

Chris_QPW

NebularNovice said:

I would love to look at the log -- but unfortunately when I try, I am told "Navigation to the webpage was canceled" then can't reach "http://qw.exe"

Looking at your description, I have to wonder why Quicken Complete ignores the summary data which is used by Simple and is apparently correct as displayed by Simple.

Or are you saying that in Complete mode, Quicken ignores the summary information unless asked to Reconcile?

@NebularNovice to fix that problem, close Quicken and delete this folder:
C:\ProgramData\Quicken\Cache

NebularNovice said:

> @NotACPA said:
> Q can do NOTHING about this.  It's ENTIRELY a TIAA problem and ONLY TIAA can fix it.

What makes you so sure of this? The evidence says otherwise.

From my testing Quicken is receiving correct shares information from TIAA when Simple Positions is checked for an account. All Quicken has to do is figure out how to use that information properly when Complete Positions and Transactions is checked. That's clearly a Quicken problem.

I didn't look that close at what you posted before (just putting an explanation of the process), above, and I don't have TIAA accounts so I can only go by what others have posted.

At first, I thought the complaints were TIAA in Complete mode downloads transactions fine, but the compare fails, and the other complaint is that in Simple mode it was wrong.

Rereading your post, I see you are saying Simple Investment mode is correct, not wrong.

Then to me the information provided by you and @NotACPA is inconsistent.

The information used for both the compare and the Simple investing mode is the same, they should agree in either being wrong or being right.

Like I said without access the QFX log data I can't tell what is wrong, but I would state this, if the problem just started, then most likely the TIAA is in fact correct and the problem is the bug that I mentioned that was introduced in R45.11 and still existing in R45.13 where the compare is now not right in some cases.  And this applies to multiple financial institutions:
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7924418/strange-bogus-security-share-mismatch

NebularNovice

Thanks for the fix to get to the log. It worked.

I did a download using Complete, then one using Simple. Each of them contained the correct numbers of shares for all holdings in my two TIAA-CREF accounts. They also had the correct share prices and market values for the holdings.

The log for Complete was about twice as large.

I don't immediately see how to decode the transaction data so I can't tell whether it is accurate. This is made more difficult because there were no actual transactions. Complete downloaded what it called transactions for TIAA Traditional, but they were just supposed additions. Even before this problem, those additions transactions always said 0 shares added -- but the process didn't result in balances of 0 shares.

Since you don't have TIAA, I should explain that Traditional has very few actual transactions. Most of the time, the balance simply grows over time, but no stated dividends or interest, just increasing balance equal to the interest rate(s) on a fairly messy computation.

NotACPA

Look at the post from @jaguar, above.  According to that post "TIAA is working on it".

Chris_QPW

This comment shows the right section for a security in the "summary section":
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20312957/#Comment_20312957

NebularNovice

Thanks for the pointer to that comment. However I could read the summary section. It is correct in both types of download.

Note: I won't be able to respond to further comments for a while because I will be traveling and have Quicken only on my home computer.

Chris_QPW

NebularNovice said:

Thanks for the pointer to that comment. However I could read the summary section. It is correct in both types of download.

Note: I won't be able to respond to further comments for a while because I will be traveling and have Quicken only on my home computer.

Then at least in your case it sounds like the problem is the bug introduced in R45.11.

adrmcclure

It looks like this is a known problem with the recent update from Quicken. It is affecting not only TIAA but Wells Fargo, Merrill Lynch, Fidelity etc.

Jim_Harman

I am having this problem with R45.13 and a TIAA account as well. I do an Update Transactions from the account's gear menu once per month. Here is a snippet from today's OFX log that demonstrates the issue.

                    <INVPOSLIST>

                    <POSOTHER>

                        <INVPOS>

                            <SECID>

                                <UNIQUEID>878094101

                                <UNIQUEIDTYPE>CUSIP

                            </SECID>

                            <HELDINACCT>CASH

                            <POSTYPE>LONG

                            <UNITS>nnnnn.n

                            <UNITPRICE>1

                            <MKTVAL>nnnnn.n

                            <DTPRICEASOF>20221130150000.000[-5:EST]

                        </INVPOS>

                    </POSOTHER>

                </INVPOSLIST>

The INVPOSLIST section shows the current holdings in the account. This shows the correct number of units, unit price, and market value. I have replaced the actual amounts with nnnnn.n. If I go to Tools > Online Center and select this account, it also shows the correct security, Units, Price, and Market Value.

But when I do a Reconcile Shares, The Compare to Portfolio  shows the Shares reported as 0.

It is pretty clear that this problem is with Quicken and not with the data sent by TIAA.  I have sent this information to Quicken via the Help > Report a problem link and anyone else who is experiencing this problem should do so as well.

PATar

I do not have the expertise to contribute to the technical discussion above. I will only note that I am having the same problems with my TIAA accounts, though not with those held by Fidelity.

Jim_Harman

@PATar
Thanks for posting. If possible, please click on Tools in Quicken's top menu bar, then select Online Center. Under Financial Institutions, select TIAA, then click on the Holdings tab. 

Do you see the correct number of shares in your TIAA investments there, or is it zero?

Thanks 

NebularNovice

Also using 45.13. I thought I would report the results of your suggestion to see what Holdings in Online Center show. For both my TIAA accounts where downloaded transactions report 0 shares, the holdings are exactly correct.

However I had forgotten to report that for one of my TIAA accounts which only has TIAA Traditional in it, I get an unreadable box when I accept the shares added "transaction".

The problem is getting worse for me. I last ran an update November 23 (been out of town until now). At that time my TD Ameritrade account was working fine. Now when I update TD Ameritrade, Quicken tells me I have a holding mismatch with 0 shares. When I check Holdings in Online Center, the securities don't even show up -- just a blank space under Description.

Now that I'm back home to test Quicken, I'll probably put in at least one problem report tomorrow, though I think they should have plenty of evidence by now to deal with something like this.