Quicken Sync reverses multiple tags in a transaction in error

Judyrb

user for 30+ years. I experienced some problems with this starting in June 2021 when Quicken changed tags in major ways.

I use categories and subcategories but also multiple tags to identify expenses more specifically.

Example: bud:Becky or JRB:Dave. When dealing with 2 bank accounts and a cash account (not on credit card accounts), I have identified in the sync process (using the excellent Quicken supplied Itemized Tags report). I manually enter a transaction in Banking with a tag of  bud:Becky without any Quicken error at that time. I shut down without sync. I start Quicken, and the Itemized Tags report shows still correct. Then One Step Update (OSU) which has cloud sync, and the transaction is viewed in the register as Becky:bud.  I can recreate this at will and did so as the Quicken customer care representative shared my screen when I called that number.

As a circumvention, do you think temporarily deleting my mobile quicken apps would allow me to "start over" where my desktop is the ONLY thing in control other than sync?  What is the “stuff” sync has in Tags to cause the reversal? I have tried validate and super validate with bad results without fixing the problem.

I do not think sync or any process should change the tags in an error-free transaction. This should be fixed by Quicken.  I have reported it under "report a problem" but no joy.

Chris_QPW

This is certainly a problem with the Sync to Mobile/Web/Quicken Cloud dataset, and it illustrates one of the reasons I don't trust it. It seems to have "unconstrainted" ability to change almost anything in your data file. This is the first I have heard of it messing up tags, but other reports are of budgets, memorized payees, transactions (especially the Clr state), …

As a circumvention, do you think temporarily deleting my mobile quicken apps would allow me to "start over" where my desktop is the ONLY thing in control other than sync? 

Deleting the app will most likely do nothing, because that isn't where the data is store except temporarily until it connects to the server. Quicken (the Desktop application) syncs with the "Quicken Connection Services", and the data for this server/service is contained in the Quicken Cloud dataset. It is the Quicken Cloud dataset that has to be remove/updated. But note that if the damage has already been done to your data file, it would be just resyncing that damaged data to the Quicken Cloud dataset.

To force the data in the Quicken Desktop data file to replace what is in the Quicken Cloud dataset:

Edit → Preferences → Mobile & Web → Reset your cloud data

Rocket J Squirrel

Unlike Categories, Tags have no order or hierarchy. There they sit in the database, and Quicken will pull them out and display them any way it likes. It may be alphabetizing them.

Chris_QPW

I'm sorry I thought this was a case where a transaction was tagged with a given set of tags, and then changed to another set of tags.

If this is just the "order" then @Rocket J Squirrel is absolutely correct.

Judyrb

For Chris QPW, I attach the info provided under reset all my cloud data.. the way I read it, it seems to say the data from the cloud is preserved..see last line "renaming rules, categories, tags…that you were using before resetting cloud data" remains (deleted and restored). I want it to be GONE and my desktop quicken populate those things. Am I making a wrong assumption?

For Rocket Squirrel, I was wondering if tags were alphabetized but don't think so at least for my credit card accounts, which handle just fine bud:becky and JRB:dave. Still, why should quicken change a tag willy nilly vs. error at the time I manually enter the tags?

I thank everyone for help and hope to get clarification from where the tags are restored. I can definitely fix my QDF file's tags, I have about 13 for bud:becky,…but I want them to remain after sync.

If I do the "reset the Cloud", do you think I should delete the mobile apps and their data first, just to isolate the situation?

Chris_QPW

Why should Quicken change the order of tags? Because it can, or another way of putting it there isn't any code that forces it to be one way or another. Tags are independent. There's nothing stopping the use of Dave and Becky or any other combination of your tags. If you include more than one tag it is an or operation not an and operation and not hierarchy. In other words if you search tags Dave and Becky it returns any transaction with either of them and doesn't matter if there are more tags on those transactions.

As for the cloud data there is no reason to uninstall the mobile application. Maybe to be on the safe side you might log out. Reset is going to send a new copy of your data to the quicken cloud data set.

Judyrb

Good suggesstion. I did the Cloud refresh (specified no sync). I signed out of my quicken on my iPhone. .

`1..I fixed all the tag errors previously identified in itemized tags report, printed the report.

2. I reset cloud data with options  (no sync before reset, just reset my Cloud data) and typed yes

3. It reset my cloud data, then synced.

4. Unfortunately, the tag become becky:bud both in the banking accounts and credit card accounts

5.I printed the itemized tags report and exported to txt but and opened "report a problem"

6. I have corrected the reversed tags for my 3 credit card accounts and they remain correct no matter how many syncs I do.

I wish I knew what in sync for the 2 banking accounts and 1 cash account caused the tag to reverse, where it remains as corrected for other accounts. Lack of consistency. That is why I think it is a quicken problem in the sync process (and I can create it and demonstrate it at will).

Chris_QPW

Others have reported tags being in different orders, with "different causes" (of which I don't think they even knew what caused it), but it is in fact not a bug. There isn't any such thing as "bud:Becky" there is "bud" and there "Becky". This is different from categories.

Look at the category list:

There is an "Auto:Fuel" that is depicted above with the fact that Fuel is indented and under Auto.

Here is the tag list:

There isn't any "below", it is all "flat".

It can be a bit confusing because they both use the colon, that they aren't the same.

As for why it happens on a sync?

That is quite easy to explain in my opinion.

You have a Quicken data file, and you have a Quicken Cloud dataset. In other words, you are transferring information between two different databases. Both databases will adhere to the "rules", but for things that are "undefined" they can do whatever they like.

It is defined that if you tag a transaction with both bud and Becky tags, that has to be maintained. But there isn't any rule that says they have to be displayed in the same order.

Judyrb

I understand some of what you are saying.  The hierarchy of categories vs the "flatness" of tags. And the "or" condition vs "and" in a report selection. 

As I feared, it is apparent that "Reset my Cloud" does not delete the Cloud version and populate it with the tags from my .QDF file, since I had corrected all of them.  But I don't understand the lack of consistency in whether a tag is reversed or not. I have 6 accounts for which transactions are downloaded. 2 banks,4 credit cards. When I "correct" the credit card transaction to bud:becky, it remains after sync. It does not with the 2 banks and 1 cash account. It is not all or none with the reversal, which I would understand. There must be something that the cloud account has that overrides my .qdf file.

 
While I can't delete the cloud file associated with the current qdf I have open (delete is greyed out), if I created another .qdf, opened and synced it, then the "real' one would not show as current and I could delete it. After it is deleted, if I open my "real" .qdf and synced, would it start over or just "restore" the deleted cloud file? This is really in the weeds, but I am not able to accept the inconsistency of reversal after sync. Thanks for your help!

NotACPA

Why does the sequence of tags matter to you?

Judyrb

Long story but these multiple tags were used successfully for 30 years for finer detail in reports (started Quicken in September, 1990, later than you). In June 2021 Quicken redid something about tags and changed all of mine to single. It even did it for memorized payees (which it should not touch).  I used to use Judy but had to switch to JRB to get the tags in "order".  At that time I thought tag order was hierarchical.  I would give a tag on a report JRB:.. meaning I wanted anything that started with JRB but could have anything else as "secondary". Apparently that is not the case. 

At this time (March 2024), I am really irritated that I can manually enter a transaction in one account as bud:becky and after sync it becomes becky:bud, changing what I actually entered...and in another account bud:becky remains bud:becky after sync. It is lack of consistency on Quicken's part. What else might they whimsically change?  Implement a hierarchy in tags or tighten up the report tag such that bud is not chosen when becky is the first position in the multi-tag? My point is that Quicken should not change a transaction where I have assigned a category and tags or where I have added them on a downloaded transaction and no error message appears as I enter the fields.

That is why I would like to "correct" my transactions, delete the cloud data, and start fresh, using my .qdf file as the "master". I have diagnosed the problem as residing in the sync process from my ..qdf to the cloud account.