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Wells Fargo - Connection Methods - Again but different

Bob.

OK, Wells has been working for a while since finding that validation was needed to get things downloading again. However, no online CC bill for 10 days has appeared (late) now so tried to delete and readd the Online Biller for Wells CC in my TEST file. Here I saw:

Ahh, OK. Said to me to check connection methods. And while when working properly, the Checking is Direct Connect and Savings and CC EWC+ (maybe EWC?) in my LIVE file, now ALL were Direct Connect. So off to my TEST file to see what I could see.

Both Savings and CC were Direct Connect in TEST. So I went to change connection, all the way through, it hangs after the Wells Web Site confirms these two have access to Quicken. Nothing gets it to work.

Restored from a backup in TEST for a bit to get the DC Wells Biller back in my file

Now, somewhere along the line, perhaps dealing with support, it was CONFIRMED that one could have a Checking account as Direct Connect and a Credit Card as EWC+ at the same bank, same Quicken file. I can't seem to make that happen now and perhaps forgot a trick?

Any thoughts?

And before you reach for Cut and Paste, thanks @UKR but I want to fix this, not setup autopay.

Appreciate input. I will save my Live File and try to change just CC again tonight.

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Bob.

Created a new copy of my test file to firther test.

I am confident that at one time I could change "just" the credit card from Direct Connect to EWC+ and keep Checking at DIrect Connect. Now ehn I try to do this I get:

I stopped doing this as my Test file does not have Checking in it where I must have Direct Connect for Wells Bill Pay and I would not know if that could be excluded, but it appears that it would change ALL Wells accounts?

I need a way to change only the Credit Card. Thoughts?

Bob.

OK, tested on my TEST file and Savings and CC working as expected on EWC+. However, my TEST file does not have my checking and I worry when I kae this change in my LIVE file I will lose Direct Connect for Checking. Which is critical not to lose.

I think the worst thing is hesitating to try to correct something in Quicken for fear what I try wil make things worse and in some cases unusable. And then restoring will bring about its own set of undesired issues. Should not have to fear what will break next.

And then, it just may go as hoped :) Cross fingers for me please.

Bob.

ARGGGH. WAs just going to try but there is no option to change connection method in my Wells LIVE files. I just did this in my TEST file. Only difference is LIVE also has checking. May have to call Support if no one here has a suggestion.

Bob.

OK, odd the change connection option not there, but next will be to try Deactivate and Reactivate.

Bob.

@Chris_QPW any thoughts? I know you have been through discussions like this with Wells even in particular. This all worked for 15 years with Checking Savings and CC. Even after the first of year change. But several weeks ago something else changed and I lost ALL connectivity to Wells from that. No one had a solutions and I stumbled on validating to get it back. But that made ALL wells accounts Direct Connect and I need Checking to remain that way and Credit Card to change to EWC+.

I worry that if I deactivate and reactivate CC it may affect Direct Connect of checking. If I try to add a new account, select CC and link to existing, what might that do?

So any input appreciated.

Bob.

OK, I knew similar had happened previously and I confirmed with developers one CAN have BOTH DC and EWC+ to the same bank for different accounts. I got Checking and Savings (seems they MUST be the same) as DC and CC as EWC (maybe not +) back in January.

The only thing is I forgot is which of the two options worked :)

Deactivate / Reactivate CC and choose EWC (it may not be offered always and may have taken a few tries), OR
Deactivate, add NEW and link to exisitng for CC.

Again, I always feel like I need a shot of courage before trying these things, but will. I'll report back either way. Maybe in the morning.

Chris_QPW

In theory it should work, but the real world ~~seldom~~ doesn't cares about the theories of man.

I have certainly seen in my experience and on here go both ways, but that is mostly based on Direct Connect and Express Web Connect and not Express Web Connect +, and definitely not when Quicken Bill Manager is brought into the picture.

But in my opinion if you are mixing them for the same financial institution for the at least in the case of non-investment accounts (what does tend to work is Direct Connect for investment accounts and either for non-investment accounts).

In fact, the "reported on here" conflicts tend to be you, with all the problems you have had trying to use Quicken Bill Manager and strange things it does to the connections for downloading transactions.

The more moving parts the harder it is to tell which one is causing the problems.

Bob.

You're likely right most are me :) And I always seem to get things working eventually. But you may be right the EWC"+" might be the wrench right now.

I can work around anything - make an Online Biller manual, etc. But I cannot work around losing Direct Connect for my checking account.

Will see. I have two things to try and if both fail, hopefully can restore from a backup made before trying these solutions.

Bob.

Well, the good news: Nothing else broke :)
I deactivated / Reactivated - linked to Existing for the CC. TWICE. Still remains Direct connect. No option to change that I could find. I have a nagging memory somewhere there was an "advanced" option. But did not see it.
I deactivated CC. Added a NEW Wells account which was this one. Linked. Still Direct Connect.
So maybe it is the + in EWC+. And maybe something else. I know CC and Savings are working as EWC+ in my TEST file so they work. Just need to get both connections working in the same file. Hopefully.
And the problem for me at my age is I have an issue, fix it (in Quicken). Then 3 or 4 different issues come up over the next months and when the original comes back, I forget I dealt with it and what the solution was. Comes with age. Eventually I turn the previous messages and emails all up.

Bob.

@Chris_QPW do you recall an "advanced" setting perhaps lower right in either activating online services for an account or adding a new account that allowed selecting the connection type? Its nagging at me.

Bob.

FWIW, just played in my TEST file again. I can change Wells Savings and CC from Direct Connect to EWC+ easily, but CANNOT change from EWC+ to DC without deactivating and setting up again. Then, there is no choice. Wells (or Quicken) will automatically select Direct Connect. And both Savings and CC MUST be the same in my TEST file it seems. If I try to change just Savings, it complains the CC connection is not correct and will no longer Update the CC until they match at EWC+ OR DC.

Chris_QPW

I will tell you one thing more, and that is that they have definitely been mucking with it since Express Web Connect + came along, for financial institutions that support them both.

For instance, Citi Cards allowing Direct Connect for one credit card account, but not for a second.

Other "indications" where you go to the Advanced Settings when setting up the connection and see Direct Connect and select it only to have it end up going to the financial institution's website to authorize Express Web Connect + instead.

Bob.

Just it Chris. That "advanced settings" is not there for me anymore. Do you still see it? Where if so?

Chris_QPW

I assume you mean Wells Fargo:

And then the stupid dialog they put up for all connection types:

Bob.

THANK YOU! I have to see if I am seeing that.

It definitely is not around when Deactivate / Reactivate. Will look again at ADD a new account. Could be the solution. Maybe….

I was going to post this morning that it "appears" that while you once could have different connection methods per account at the same Financial Institution, that appears to no longer be the case.

Cold be because you cannot mix DC and EWC"+" where DC and EWC used to work.

Could be the latests versions of Quicken preventing this.

Could be Wells Fargo preventing this but I think least likely of the choices.

Will look at LIVE file one more time to see if I can change just the CC by deactivitating and adding New and Linking.

Bob.

OK @Chris_QPW that lead me to the answer - but not yet the solution or the root cause…

Its a little different for me getting to the "advanced options" which only appear when deactivating and adding a "new" account to link to existing.

OK. Easy to miss and a different place than you pointed to, Chris. Then…

OK, I select EWC as this is for the CC I wish to be EWC+ and click next…

Fill in and connect AND…

Bingo.

So, who is generating that message? Wells? Quicken? Its why I can get either online banking or online biller to work, but not at the same time.

Bob.

The other possibility to make ALL Wells work as expected is for Quicken to pick up the Online Biller using Direct Connect. I do not know if the requirement for the Online Biller to be EWC is a Quicken issue or Wells.

Nothing more to do unless Quicken or Wells makes some change. I'll just have to test at each new build. But my hopes are low.

At least I finally got to an error message showing the root problem.

Bob.

Just a bump.

Both type of connections work as I have them in TEST files to prove it. But, I miss this functionality of Checking DC and CC EWC+. So, if anyone finds a way to enable both connections again, or hears anything from Quicken about reverting to allow this, I would love to know.

Bob.

Checking in case anyone has found that checking as Direct Connect and Credit Card as EWC+ works again. I will test in a new test file in a day or two.

Also, Wells CC is sending duplicate entries again on the day the monthly statement closes. This month a little different as on the last two transactions were duplicated. Usually its most of the transactions. And always on the day the statement closes - perhaps next day.

Bob.

Nope. Again complained all connections to a financial institution must be the same/ Snd direct connect cannot pick up an Online Biller any longer - at least from wells.

Bummer.

Bob.

Just off the phone with Wells Fargo who claims they have never heard of being forced to use one protocol with all of their accounts and they believe the following error is Quicken prohitibiting this. I opened a trouble ticket to escalate.

Jfred16

Thanks for running this down.

I have had the exact same problems since July. All my WF accounts showed Direct Connect would not download transactions. Found the problem when I tried to send a check and couldn’t. I changed all connections to EWC+ and transactions download but of course no bill payer. I worked with WF tech support and reached the end of their diagnosis with no help.

I do agree this is a Quicken issue. Need Direct Connect for Checking and EWC+ for everything else. Looking forward to see if you can get this resolved.

Bob.

Good to hear not just me @Jfred16 . Cannot seem to get Quicken interested in the issue. We must be a very small user group with checking and credit card and direct connect bill pay. And cannot even find if this is Wells only or any Finincial Instuituion with Quicken bill pay.

As always, will post what I find as I do. Expecting a call from escalated Wells support on Monday.

Bob.

Just off the phone with the actual online services department at Wells Fargo, not customer service, but those that test and control the connections between Wells and Quicken. They claim two things. First, which I can understand and agree is that the decision to limit to a single connection type at a financial institution is a Quicken decision and was neither requested or mandated by Wells Fargo. So that recent change is a Quicken decision, unannounced and unreplied to when it created this issue.

Second, and we spoke at length, they guarantee me they did not demand that Credit Card for Online Billers be EWC+. They claim this was mandated by Quicken, not Wells and they agreed it was more secure so went along with it. But as far as they are concerned, they have no issue for Wells Online CC Biller using Direct Connect as it did for 17 years in my experience.

I could be in error, but I feel that many posts in these forums have implied that it is the bank that mandated the changes to EWC+, and not just Wells, but Chase perhaps, etc. Wells says not so, at least as far as they are concerned.

Interesting, eh?

I gave him instructions for how to test as follows:

Create a new file.
Add a checking account as Direct Connect
Add a Credit Card as EWC+
See if the above error showing you can only have one connection method appears.
If it does, then Credit Card will not function in Online Billers. if it does not, all should be good and then find out why it works for him and not me.

@Quicken Anja @Quicken Abhishek V this could all be very interesting for you.

You're welcome :)

Chris_QPW

@Bob. For the most part I don't want to get into these discussions. There is little I can add and even less of what I can actually do to change the situation. But I do want to point out that I think you are confusing different issues and therefore not getting the right answers even when talking to the right people.

First off, no matter what the people at Well Fargo said there isn't any way that Quicken Inc or even Intuit "mandate" connection types. They can certainly "strongly suggest", but they can't mandate".

And that "suggestion" would be "You should support Express Web Connect +". This is in fact, the EXACT REQUEST that Quicken customers have stated that Quicken Inc/Intuit HAVE the responsibility to do. As in, "Why isn't Quicken Inc/Intuit talking to XXX financial institution to get this connection supported/working/….".

Then we come to the dropping of Direct Connect. Again, totally up to the financial institution, and Wells Fargo made the decision NOT to drop it. Chase made the decision to drop it. Totally up to the financial institution.

And that brings us to the long-reported BUG. I reported this long ago for other financial institutions that once a financial institution supports Express Web Connect + Quicken (the program) has problems with adding in Direct Connect connections. And as far as I know (I haven't anything to test with anymore) that has never been fixed. The only suggestion that I as a user could suggest for a person that had Direct Connect setup is to "leave it alone". But you have definitely decided not to do that and push it. Fine, maybe they will get around to fixing the problem if you keep pushing it, but personally I wouldn't find the aggravation worth it.

Now on to "bills". You seem to be confusing two different systems. Bills through Direct Connect is nothing like "Online Bills/Quicken Bill Manager". Direct Connect bills are "push" as in through Quicken you are simply giving the financial institution's bill payment system commands to send out payments to the various "billers". This has Nothing to do with "Online Bills" on the Bills & Income tab.

Quicken Bill Manager (which includes Online Bills) is another third-party service that is trying to go to the "biller's website" and get the online bill or if you are using it to actually submit a bill payment. This is a "pull system" as in the biller is pulling the payment from the credit card or checking account instead of the push system of your financial institution sending a payment to the biller.

So, in this system, with Quicken Bill Manager, Wells Fargo is just another "biller". And for whatever reason the third-party billing system has trouble logging into Wells Fargo and scheduling a bill. What method is that third-party trying to use to access Wells Fargo? I have no idea. But note they are only trying to access Wells Fargo for a bill like your credit card. They aren't trying to access Wells Fargo's bill system to get it to pay other billers.

Bob.

@Chris_QPW no one said anyhting about dropping direct connect. Anywhere at any time. What I said is I am forced to connect ALL accounts at Wells as EITHER direct connect or EWC+ where I used to be able to choose for each.

This worked for about 6 months perfectly with Checking direct and CC EWC+ . It is a recent change, regardless of what bug you may have reported.

Needed to comment on those. Now will read ther rest of your take on things. Especially what issues you think I am confusing. I do not believe I am.

Bob.

I AM NOT confusing Wells Bill Pay with Direct Connect and Quicken Bill Pay. Never have. Never even mentioned Quicken Bill pay.

[Removed - Disruptive]

I appreciate the time to try.

Chris_QPW

single connection type at a financial institution is a Quicken decision

Bug/limitation of Quicken (the program).

but I feel that many posts in these forums have implied that it is the bank that mandated the changes to EWC+

It is the bank's decision on what and what not to support. No one is mandating anything.

EDIT:

But as far as they are concerned, they have no issue for Wells Online CC Biller using Direct Connect as it did for 17 years in my experience.

OK I was reading between the lines. As in somehow you believed that it is Quicken Inc trying to push using the Quicken Bill Manager, and "dropping support for bill pay through Direct Connect". I see no indications that this is true. As far as I know, Quicken Inc has no problem with this either, so I fail to see why you would bring it up in this discussion other than you are having problems with the bill system. Clearly if you can't connect with Direct Connect, that system isn't available to you, no matter what Wells Fargo things about it or not.

The more I think about this the more I believe the limitation of having all your accounts using the same connection type has been there all along. I remember hitting it years ago. What I called a bug is that the fact that people aren't being about to use Direct Connect for all of their accounts at a given financial institution when it is available.

Bob.

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20448691#Comment_20448691

It is not a bug as it worked for 6 months until recently. And if a Quicken decision, an incredibly poorly thought out one.

It PREVENTS a user form having Direct Connect Bill pay at the bank AND getting current Credit Card Bill in Online Billers!!

And the paying user base was never notified of the change!

Chris_QPW

EDIT:

It is not a bug as it worked for 6 months until recently.

What do you call an unintended change? You are GUESSING that that change was on purpose. My guess would be an introduced bug. You have two systems that are overlapping in functionality, and they are getting in the way of each other.

_____________________

The whole "Quicken Bill Manager/Online Bills" is a poorly thought-out system as far as I'm concerned.

And Quicken is riddled with bugs, and yes, they continue to put in more bugs as time goes on.

Welcome to Quicken.