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Growth of $10,000 after Schwab ETF Splits 10/11/2024

larryvc

Quicken Version R59.18 Build 27.1.59.18 on Windows 11

I can find no reason for the dip; all other graphs and account metrics are showing the correct values for the account, and they match FI data. Checked that price histories are correct on pre-split dates and after, registry entry date of splits, etc., yet the graph is showing almost $18K value lost. Have never had, or noticed, this issue before. NOTE: I did not have any fractional shares from the splits to deal with.

Given that there have been numerous previous discussions concerning this graph, usually without a resolution, am I to assume that it is broken never to be fixed? Any Ideas?

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Jim_Harman

@larryvc

Thanks for sticking with this. I now see the same problem.

I ran your scenario using manual entries:

Add SCHG to the Security List. This creates an accurate price history for the last 5 years.
Buy 50 shares of SCHG on 12/31/21
SCHG splits 2:1 on 3/11/22
SCHG splits 4:1 on 10/11/24

The Transaction List looks like this:

If I select just SCHG and set the date range for the Growth of $10,000 so it only includes one of the splits, the Investing > Performance > Portfolio Value and Growth of $10,000 charts look reasonable.

If I set the date range to include both splits (1/1/22 - 10/20/24 for example) the Portfolio Value chart still looks OK but the Growth of $10,000 chart drops suddenly at the end.

Clearly there is an error in the calculation in the Growth of $10,000 chart if the analysis period includes more than one split.

I have reported this issue via the Help > Report a Problem link.

All comments

Jim_Harman

In the price history, there should be a jump in the price that corresponds to the split. Is the date of the jump the same as the split date?

In the investing account, click on Holdings and adjust the As of date around the date of the split. Does the number of shares change on the same date as the split?

Are there any Placeholders in the account around the date of the split?

larryvc

Hi @Jim_Harman,

Just double checked to be absolutely sure, price drop and share count increases occur on the date of the split, so yes to first two questions. No placeholders.

I've already tried modifying dates, historical prices, reverted to an earlier backup and redownloading transactions a couple of times, removing and manually reentering the splits, nothing has had any effect on this graph. Like I said, all other graphs, account balances and cost basis, are correct and match Schwab data, other than the dates I had to update to one day later of course. Hoping that also gets resolved soon…

Jim_Harman

If everything in the transaction list and the price history is correct, then I would suspect a problem with the setup of the Performance page.

Were there more than one ETFs that you hold that split, and were they all in one account, or multiple accounts?

I suggest you limit the selections at the top of the Performance page to one affected account and one ETF and see if you can find the specific ETFs that cause the problem.

I experimented with manually entered transactions for SCHG and the Growth of $10,000 looks correct if I set the Split date to 10/11

larryvc

@Jim_Harman,

For completeness, my file has been triple checked, validated, super validated, and lots rebuilt with no errors.

This report is for only one account, an IRA with only Schwab ETFs, 7 of 11 ETFs had splits, no change in symbols. Thank you for your help, your comments guided me into looking much deeper,

On a hunch, after reading in previous discussions that earlier stock splits affect this graph detrimentally, I set the start date of the graph to the date of the earlier splits, 3/11/2022. This resulted in the correct value being displayed in the graph.

There is something in the code for this graph that doesn't calculate splits correctly if you have multiple splits of securities over the specific time period requested. In the case of my data, SCHX and SCHA had split 2:1 on 3/11/2022, and 3:1 and 2:1 respectively on 10/11/2024. @jebeling, reported this anomaly in 2019 in this thread QWP 2018 Growth of $10,000 chart incorrect after shares removed/added — Quicken. Pretty much makes this graph useless if you have multiple splits. Quicken folks should look into this long-standing bug.

Suggested workaround, set the graph start date to the date of the earlier split or later, or just accept the fact that the graph will not give correct results per the above.

Jim_Harman

Do you have Added or Removed transactions associated with these splits? What transactions do you have recorded for the splits?

Sometimes Added or Removed transactions may be downloaded, but the split transaction in Quicken should take care of adjusting your share quantities as long as there were no partial shares and Cash in Lieu.

larryvc

No shares removed or added, only the splits themselves, all on the correct dates, and the historical quotes are all in line with the split dates, no partials and no cash in Lieu.

I have other files that demonstrate this same behavior if I set the start date to before the earlier splits. Did this for multiple accounts and securities over varying time periods, unless I set the date to the date of the earlier split or later the graph value is incorrect. For displaying time periods that contain earlier splits of some, or all, of the same securities in the more recent splits the graph code is broken, has been for a very long time, at least since 2019.

Jim_Harman

@larryvc

Thanks for sticking with this. I now see the same problem.

I ran your scenario using manual entries:

Add SCHG to the Security List. This creates an accurate price history for the last 5 years.
Buy 50 shares of SCHG on 12/31/21
SCHG splits 2:1 on 3/11/22
SCHG splits 4:1 on 10/11/24

The Transaction List looks like this:

If I set the date range to include both splits (1/1/22 - 10/20/24 for example) the Portfolio Value chart still looks OK but the Growth of $10,000 chart drops suddenly at the end.

Clearly there is an error in the calculation in the Growth of $10,000 chart if the analysis period includes more than one split.

I have reported this issue via the Help > Report a Problem link.

larryvc

@Jim_Harman

Eureka! Thanks for sticking with me and for the time and effort you put into this. I'm glad we verified the bug; I have marked your reply as the answer.

Would like to also give credit to @jebeling for having posted about this bug in 2019. Now that it has been reported, let's hope that this bug does not fester another five years before the Quicken folks provide a fix.

Jim_Harman

Forum Moderators sometimes review issues discussed here and refer them to Development, but if you want Quicken to work on a problem, I recommend you contact Support via phone. Be sure the support agent understands the problem and gives you a ticket number for future reference. Please post the ticket number here.

You should also use the Help > Report a Problem menu in Quicken to submit the issue online. In your submission, be as clear and thorough as possible. Reference the ticket number and provide a link to this discussion. Provide step by step instructions to reproduce the problem. This problem is easy to replicate, but they will not pay much attention to a problem unless they can replicate it in house.

You will not get a response to an electronic submission, but apparently they review and prioritize the submissions and use the data to help resolve problems they decide to work on. The more reports they receive the better.

bobbakerarizona

Thanks for highlighting this issue. I couldn't understand what was going wrong. And seeing the 10,000 performance graph issue made me think I had problems elsewhere.

Also, thanks Jim_Harman, for your several earlier posts about 'timing of cash' and withdrawal vs. XOut and the problems associated. Very, very helpful to understand how things worked (or are broken).

I hope they respond to this issue.

(It explains why I have had troubles for years with splits!!!!)

AWinTx

I experienced this issue in June and reported it to no avail. I just tried entering a new Growth of $10,000 report and it still shows the same steep drop after the second split:

Hope you have better luck!

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7951777/growth-of-10-000-after-nvda-split

Jim_Harman

This issue is also discussed here

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7957186/growth-of-10k-graph-impacted-by-nvda-7-20-21-split-but-not-price-history-graph