Online Banking: "Vanguard" or "Vanguard - Personal Investors" options

Andrew Dubin

All,

When I search for a financial institution I'm able to select "Vanguard" or "Vanguard - Personal Investors". Currently, I can only connect using the "Vanguarad - Personal Investors" option.

When I try to use "Vanguard" I get an error message - OFX Error: 16503.

When I connect using "Vanguard - Personal Investors" I can only connect using simple connection method (NO transactions details).

My Questions are….

(1) What is the difference between the two options?

(2) Which option should I use and why?

(3) Why does the Vanguard and Quicken interface breakdown every few weeks?

Thanks - Andrew D.

jacobs

(1) As you've noted, only the "Vanguard" one allows Direct Connect, which in turn allows Detail investment tracking.

(2) Direct Connect/Detail tracking is the option most people will want to select. Use "Vanguard - Personal Investors" only if you're satisfied seeing only your account balances without transaction history.

(3) "Every few weeks" is an exaggeration; it was down once for several weeks, was restored to service, and is now down a second time. Why? Vanguard is apparently doing some tightening of their security procedures for third-party software to access their servers. What the details are, they haven't stated. Why they haven't communicated downtime in advance to their customers, we don't know. How long it will be down, we don't know. Hopefully this second time will be shorter than the first one, but no one except Vangaurd's IT people know.

jacobs

why can't Vanguard and Quicken make the updates in a "test" enviroment and then migrate to the production environment? Also, both companies are large with many resouces and not providing timely updates is less than professional and probably a deal breaker for several customers.

Good question, which no one here can answer. First, understand that Quicken's connectivity is provided by Intuit, so it's really Intuit and Vanguard which need to connect; Quicken is basically a bystander in this process. Why Vanguard has twice cut off Quicken users without thoroughly testing their updates first is a question for Vanguard. Likely, it's because Vanguard's IT department is focused on security and their overall customer base, of which Quicken users comprise only a small part. Finally, while you say both Vanguard and Quicken are large companies, it may be worth noting that Quicken is actually fairly small, with about 200 employees, versus Vanguard with about 20,000 — so not exactly a relationship of equals. 😉

jacobs

(1) As you've noted, only the "Vanguard" one allows Direct Connect, which in turn allows Detail investment tracking.

(2) Direct Connect/Detail tracking is the option most people will want to select. Use "Vanguard - Personal Investors" only if you're satisfied seeing only your account balances without transaction history.

(3) "Every few weeks" is an exaggeration; it was down once for several weeks, was restored to service, and is now down a second time. Why? Vanguard is apparently doing some tightening of their security procedures for third-party software to access their servers. What the details are, they haven't stated. Why they haven't communicated downtime in advance to their customers, we don't know. How long it will be down, we don't know. Hopefully this second time will be shorter than the first one, but no one except Vangaurd's IT people know.

Andrew Dubin

Thank you for the detailed response. At this point to get my accounts updated i'll use "Vanguard - Personal Investors" (simple tracking) and I may use "Vanguard" which allows Direct Connect (detailed tracking) in the future.

I understand Vanguard IT needs to make updates. But, why can't Vanguard and Quicken make the updates in a "test" enviroment and then migrate to the production environment? Also, both companies are large with many resouces and not providing timely updates is less than professional and probably a deal breaker for several customers.

jacobs

why can't Vanguard and Quicken make the updates in a "test" enviroment and then migrate to the production environment? Also, both companies are large with many resouces and not providing timely updates is less than professional and probably a deal breaker for several customers.

Good question, which no one here can answer. First, understand that Quicken's connectivity is provided by Intuit, so it's really Intuit and Vanguard which need to connect; Quicken is basically a bystander in this process. Why Vanguard has twice cut off Quicken users without thoroughly testing their updates first is a question for Vanguard. Likely, it's because Vanguard's IT department is focused on security and their overall customer base, of which Quicken users comprise only a small part. Finally, while you say both Vanguard and Quicken are large companies, it may be worth noting that Quicken is actually fairly small, with about 200 employees, versus Vanguard with about 20,000 — so not exactly a relationship of equals. 😉

Jim&Ginny

The above questions and responses are helpful to us in understanding what's going on and the disappointing limits outside Vanguard's IT Dept. Thank you.

However, one fact I just learned prompts another key question. It was written that "connectivity is provided by Intuit". Have one or more Quicken employees called Intuit and asked 1. "Is Intuit having problems with Vanguard with any of their own current products?" 2. Do Intuit engineers & IT staff have any idea what the problem is and why it might be taking so long?

I think we all appreciate how complex and serious the issue of combining internet security, privacy, and ease of access might be for Vanguard. There are so many evil players, including shady 3rd party software programs, and governments seeking to attack their systems.

Many of us realize that Vanguard's IT secrecy may actually reflect a serious problem, possibly a breech, that may have already occurred and if commonly known or reported would adversely affect Vanguard. It should be common knowledge that Vanguard is HUGE (dangerously?) regarding the amount of America's funds it controls.

Lastly, while Vanguard is huge compared to Quicken, I doubt Vanguard can ignore the problems of long term customers of both companies (like me) so easily. Besides, a much more useful company comparison is customer base not the number of employees.

jacobs

Have one or more Quicken employees called Intuit and asked 1. "Is Intuit having problems with Vanguard with any of their own current products?" 

It doesn't really matter whether an Intuit product like Quickbooks or TurboTax is having a problem connecting to Vanguard, and different products may use different servers or login sequences. All that matters is that once Quicken becomes aware of the problem, they file a service ticket with Intuit about it. And when Quicken posts an Alert message in this forum, it means they have notified Intuit.

Do Intuit engineers & IT staff have any idea what the problem is and why it might be taking so long?

It can depend on whether the problem is entirely with the financial institution — e.g. their server is blocking login attempts — or whether Intuit needs to make changes in their code to adapt to a change made by the financial institution. And it can get more complex than that, as some financial institutions — and I believe I have read that Vanguard is one — empty another company to handle connectivity to their servers. So now you have Quicken, Intuit, Vanguard and their connectivity provider all in the mix! And we as end users never get any insight into who knows what, who is talking to whom, or what the progress or status of a fix is.

Vanguard's IT secrecy may actually reflect a serious problem, possibly a breech, that may have already occurred

That's possible, but not likely. The first Vanguard outage was something they planned in advance to change something with the security systems, but it obviously wasn't tested well enough and resulted in a multi-week outage. This is likely a follow-on to whatever they were doing the first time.

Lastly, while Vanguard is huge compared to Quicken, I doubt Vanguard can ignore the problems of long term customers of both companies (like me) so easily. Besides, a much more useful company comparison is customer base not the number of employees.

Quicken doesn't reveal how many active customers it has. The only stat they provide is that they have served over 20 million people over the past 40 years. Of course, many of those people are no longer customers. From public comments by the CEO, I would guess the current subscriber base is in the low single millions — somewhere between 2 and 4 million. Vanguard had more than 50 million customers.

jamesq99

So frustrating as now we're at a quarter close and I need to run tax reports on dividends and interest. I hope this get fixed soon.

mikel51

I noticed the current "second" outage on Sat Mar 29. I was hoping they would restore Mon or Tue. No dice. I'll contact my Vanguard rep today to let him know that it is out again.

JohninCB

It's not functioning on April 1. I traded messages with a Vanguard rep. They quoted an older report that things had been "resolved" on March 7 and were apparently unaware that it is not working again. I made sure they know that it's not. Let's hope a large number of Quicken users contact Vanguard to urge them to implement download of transactions again.

bj_vande

As of the morning of 3 April it is still not working :-(

Andrew Dubin

Hello Someone From Quicken - Can you let us know when this is fixed and working? Proactive communications would be appreciated.

Thanks - Andrew D.

jacobs

@Andrew Dubin There is an "Alert" thread Quicken has posted about the Vanguard outage, and that's where they will post if there is a change in status. Except in rare instances, there will not be an ETA or progress update, and it will suddenly start working one day, after which the Alert thread will be updated to reflect the resolution.

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7961344/new-4-1-25-vanguard-ol-293-ol-295-a-and-error-16503

You can bookmark that thread (click the little ribbon icon to the right of the first post) to check daily or every few days to see if there is any change.