Vanguard Small Cap Value Index Oddities

johamill

I have some Vanguard accounts that contain investments in their Small Cap Value Index Fund Admiral Shares (VSIAX). I think it started some months ago, but continues every day. In the evenings, after market close, my "Market Value as of Today" amount adjusts to reflect the closing values of the day. The next morning, every single day, my VSIAX funds drop in value by at least a percentage point, often more, which shows my overall market value balances for the day to be in the negative for the whole day. These are the only index funds that I own that show any kind of change before market close. Then, again, after market close, the real value is reflected and the massive losses from nowhere are replaced with the day's real gains or losses. Why do these funds start the day as if they've lost a lot of value, even if they just gained value the night before?

Quicken Kristina

Hello @johamill,

Thank you for letting us know you're seeing this behavior. To help troubleshoot this issue, would you please post a screenshot of how it looks in your Quicken when the value drops prior to market close? If needed, please refer to this Community FAQ for instructions on how to attach a screenshot. Alternatively, you can also drag and drop screenshots to your response if you are not given the option to add attachments.     

I look forward to your response!

John_in_NC

Howdy, @johamilll:I only update my accounts long after markets have closed, but does it appear that you your positions of VSIAX reduce to $0 during the day, only to return to a normal market value after the market closes?

When I setup this ticker and download the price history, it shows a $0 value for the opening balance each day which might be why your NAV drops until markets close/the fund updates with the closing price. Does that look like what is happening?

If so, that is a an issue with the quote server, and you would have to report via the Help menu: Report a Problem.

You might have securities that you want to see being updated during the day, but if you only care about the after market closes data (which is pertinent to mutual funds), then you can change your Settings:Connected Services, and uncheck the option to update quotes every ~60 minutes. Then it will be refreshed when you update your accounts.

johamill

Thanks Kristina. Attached are two screenshots. The first is how the markets ended last night 8/18/25. The second is how my accounts look at 6:40 am Pacific time the following morning.

jacobs

What's odd is that two of your Vanguard mutual funds — Small Cap Value Index and Target Retirement 2055 — do not show the little "i" icon to the left of the price on the second screen shot; it is present on your other mutual funds. When you click that little "i" it shows:

Try opening the Security and seeing if the Type is set to Mutual Fund or something else. If it is not currently Mutual Fund, see if it will let you change to Mutual Fund. I don't know if this would fix the issue in your Portfolio display or not.

johamill

@John_in_NC - sorry, didn't see your reply before posting screenshots. When I look at my opening price for today, it's the same as current price of 80.37 for that fund. As for updating accounts - I typically update my entire list of accounts a couple of times per day, not for the investment accounts, but for other transactional reasons. It just so happens that the investment accounts also all update when I do that and I've noticed this happening, and with being on Pacific time, depending on time of day, it might be after markets have closed but update servers aren't fully updated yet, so I never really know what's happening until late at night with my investment accounts. Looking like I've lost 3.5% of that fund every day until late at night isn't cool.

@jacobs - my securities are set to Mutual Fund already.

It's almost as if there is some sort of server refresh overnight that causes a temporary loss every day that isn't rectified until 6 or 7 pm Eastern time, which is pretty annoying.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your replies,

I have reported this issue to the proper channels for further investigation and resolution. Please navigate to Help>Report a Problem and send a problem report with log files attached to help with the investigation.

While you will not receive a response through this submission, these reports will help our teams in further investigating the issue. The more problem reports we receive, the better.

We apologize for any inconvenience!

Thank you.   

(CBT-774)

John_in_NC

Thanks for the update-this problem is upstream from you so do report.

As I can see from your second screenshot (and as @jacobs pointed out), the price is missing the informational i dot next to the price. That icon disappears when a new price has been downloaded for the day, so it appears that erroneous $80.37 is getting fetched at your AM check-in. You actually have three prices updated. The Money Market fund doesn't matter as the price typically stays at $1/share. Your Vanguard Target Retirement fund updates, but has the same price as closing the night before.

Depending on connection method and how you update would explain why more than one account updates. (All Quicken Connected accounts will update when you update any individual one, and all DC accounts for that Financial Institution will update when you update that financial institituion. And, obviously, quotes will be updated ~60 minutes if you have that selected (which is by default).

If you're curious, you can NOT update any accounts one day and leave the auto-quote updating enabled. If the wrong prices still come down, then it is a quote server issue. If nothing changes (that icon doesn't disappear), the bad data is coming from Vanguard.

johamill

@John_in_NC thanks for your continued help. Here's some new info from today. I hadn't touched the software at all this morning and just took a look at it. You can see the updated time at the top right (11:46 am) that is happening automatically, but the values of my investments are all still normal. I took this first screenshot and then clicked the main update button at the top left of Quicken, and this specifically caused the issue at hand (screenshot 2). So, it does appear to be 100% related to the update button in screenshot 3. Am I reading your final statement correctly that with this being the cause, the issue is coming from Vanguard?

John_in_NC

Howdy, again, johamill.

Yes, it appears the errant quote price only occurs when you update your Vanguard account as other Securities are updating as indicated by your timestamps. You can look at the price history under Window:Securities and confirm if it warms your heart to see what price is updating when you update all your accounts.

Do report this as Kristina noted.

One last thing unrelated to this issue: outside of the quote server updates, Quicken isn't really a real time system, so there really is no need to be updating multiple times a day.