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"Securities Value" does not match "Market Value" by 40%... What to look for ?

MC Marcel

Hello,

I'm using Quicken Classic Business & Personal edition, active subscription. I have one brokerage account where the Securities Value (bottom of the register view) 40% less than the Market Value (Holdings View). The Market Value is correct, all holdings quantities, transactions are correct. All historical pricing of securities are correct. Cash balance is also correct but does not get included in either values. Money Market shares are properly accounted as security and not cash…

What would make this "Securities Value" so wrong ? Where should I look next ? Already tried "Validate and Repair option which did something on that account but did not change the outcome…

Thanks

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Accepted answers

Jim_Harman

It is correct for a share class conversion to be recorded as one Removed and a series of Adds. But note that the Share Class Conversion ~~trashes~~ misstates the Cost Basis if the old security has been set to Use average cost. There was once a clear discussion of this but unfortunately it has been archived. I will see if a Moderator can get it back.

Stock splits should be recorded as one StkSplit in each account where you hold the security. There should be no Adds for a stock split. Unfortunately brokers often download Added transactions with a cost basis of zero. This makes the share count correct but again messes up the cost basis if you later have partial sales of the security.

All comments

Bob_L

long shot: recalculate the register using CTL Z.

MC Marcel

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20528541#Comment_20528541

Thanks Bob. Just tried, did not change the result, same outcome.

Bob_L

You could try creating a copy of your file to see if that corrects it. If that works you can then just start using that new copy, though creating a copy requires you to restablish your online coninections ( worth it if it's fixed).

Another option would of course be to uninstall and reinstall.

NotACPA

@MC Marcel Have you taken a look at the Portfolio, and compared the numbers there to those other places?

Also, which values match what your brokerage firm is showing? And, have you checked for Placeholders in the account?

MC Marcel

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20528602#Comment_20528602

Thanks for the suggestion, I went through the copy procedure:
- Copy file → open the new file → same issue
- Validate and Repair file (the copy) → check "rebuild investing lots" & "Correct investing price history / Delete and Repair " → no change / same issue
- Re-create online connection → Update → same issue

MC Marcel

Hi @NotACPA , the "Holdings" view is correct, matches with the brokerage firm. The "Securities Value" number in the register view is wrong (grossly), I can't figure how that value gets computed.

NotACPA

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20528651#Comment_20528651

What I asked about was the Portfolio, CTRL-U, OR click Investing, Portfolio. You had already said that Holdings was correct.

Jim_Harman

Do you have overdue Reminders for this account?

Oddly, overdue Reminders in investing accounts are included in some places in Quicken but not others.

Also future dated transactions or hidden Placeholders might cause what you are seeing.

Make sure the Placeholders are visible by going to Edit > Preferences > Investments and checking the Show hidden transactions box.

And exactly what "Market value" are you looking at? The Total market value includes any Cash that is in the account but the Securities Value does not.

MC Marcel

Thanks all for all your suggestions. Here's some answers and comments on what I've tried so far. I'm wondering if anyone would know what formula the "Securities Value" is following (register view).

I'm not including the "Cash Balance", only securities.
- "Market Value" the sum of the "Market Value" in the holdings view without the cash (last row), this tracks each remaining lot priced at "As of" date (set to today) and is correct.
CTRL-U does not seem to do anything, but in the Investing → Portofolio view, the holdings are correct and consistent with the "Holdings" view.
I do not have any placehoder transaction (show hidden transaction is checked) and no future dated transaction.
I do not have any reminders / scheduled or automated transaction in this perticular brokerage account
I removed from the security list all securities unused in any account → not change.
I checked lots, and these seem ok, leading to the correct holdings view value

What I'm going to try next is going through securities I've traded and disposed of, so no longer held, just in case there's any weirdness there.

MC Marcel

Oh, and one thing I just found out… The view on the web is correct (i.e. the Securities Value shown for the account when accessed on the web), so my issue sounds like a computation done locally on my desktop going wrong…

Bob_L

Did you try reinstalling?

Jim_Harman

Compare the Investing > Portfolio Value report for the problem account to the Market Value at the bottom of the account register and the Holdings view. These should be the same, but they are computed differently. The Portfolio Value report shows Cost Basis + Gain or loss for each security and the Holdings view shows Shares * Price/share.

If there are discrepancies, comparing the numbers for each security will show which security or securities are causing the problem. Then go back in time by changing the As of date in the Holdings view and the ending date for the report to see when the discrepancy first appears. Look for an odd transaction on that date that might explain the problem.

Sometimes for example stock splits are downloaded as Added transactions. For a detailed example, see this discussion

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7957871/why-does-my-portfolio-value-report-incorrectly-calculate-balance-for-a-few-securites

Please let us know what you find.

MC Marcel

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20528888#Comment_20528888

Thanks @Jim_Harman for the pointer. I am suspecting something similar with splits and/or conversions. The conversion presents itself as multiple Remove / Added transactions keeping track of the original lots. The stock split does the same thing adding new shares based on the various lot dates.
Anyways, not yet found the culprit but will go through these again and report back whatever I find…

MC Marcel

I managed to "fix" this issue. I'm not too sure what did it, but here's what I did as it may help others with simillar problems… I had try to mimic the opening of the account by doing "purchases" of my positions (and adding the appropriate cash). Instead, I went back to a statement when I created the Quicken account and moved the transactions from "Bought" to "Added", ensured proper date sequence and hit CTRL-Z for recalculation, and that fixed the "Securities Value" value at the bottom the the register view.
Now I need to review my cash balances, but that's a much easier problem to track.

I had placeholder transactions that were reviewed and accepted (converted to actual transactions), but I think the key here is making sure any stock "adds" or "removals" do need to have the proper date, as well as the cost then.

Anyways, issue is resolved… Thanks all for jumping in with suggestions.

Jim_Harman