Budget Disappeared.

1235719

Answers

  • CMRater
    CMRater Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Thanks for the update mobleyw.  Good to let Quicken know ASAP before they think they have solved.  I think I have gone 6-8 days with losing budget.  After processing each download, I back up and close the file.  I have not experienced a particular problem when reopening the file.  Of note, when I re-open my file, I simply re-login into the file, with no cloud back up sequence.  I only see the "cloud syncing screen" when I restore.  In fact, I had restored so many times, that the I got a message saying I have used up maximum data sets (according to the cloud counter?).  Had to call quicken to have "counter" reset.

    Your impression that you must leave quicken file open has not been my experience for what it is worth.  I assume your file has passed through validation?  The other more painful way to confirm/achieve file integrity is to copy the file which apparently ensure file integrity but means you have to reconnect all your accounts.  Not suggesting anything in particular, just trying to relate my experience including advise from quicken customer service.  While I have been fortunate enough to run budget reports and cautiously access the budget data itself (Just once in last week as I dare not try to access often), I am under no illusion that the underlying problem is no longer there.

    On behalf of all of us frustrating with this software flaw, thank you for your persistence in working with the Quicken team and keeping us all informed.
    Quicken User Since - 1991
  • mtn_living
    mtn_living Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    That’s disappointing. I have some questions and some thoughts about our different approach to software use:
    a. do you as normal practice leave Quicken up and running overnight or up and running in general? I never do this with any software. I always completely close everything when finished working with a piece of software whether Quicken or Excel or anything. This is a hangover from my old IT and software development days. There is just too much that can happen leaving software open, anti-virus scans, indexing, all sorts of stuff running in the background. As importantly computer memory is not always 100% stable, even one slipped bit can screw things up. We semi-jokingly used to refer to this as a depleted neutrino storm hitting memory. I've also noticed from time to time when I've accidently left Quicken open all night by mistake I've run into crashes sometimes.

    Closing software down when completed working insures a clean good data copy is written to storage, and in Quicken case depending on settings, a good backup happens. Conversely also means the next time you work with the software you are working with a freshly loaded copy that should be clean with no degradation from anything.

    I also close my  computer down when done at night for similar reasons, to get a clean fresh startup in the morning and not let glitches accumulate.  Not saying this excuses the budget evaporating overnight but just a general observation on software practices. I would urge all to never leave software running when you've completed your work. Always close the package until you need it next time.

    b. In #3 you mentioned that you have to login when re-opening Quicken; I never have to do this except when I first started the beta I had to enter my Quicken account id and password. Now I have Preferences/Startup/StartupActions set to not require a password each time I start software. Do you have this set to ON?

    c. In #3 you also mention observing a "cloud backup sequence" after you logged back into software. First, is this a backup or is it a synch of some sort you are seeing. I don't ever see that except the brief synch info during a restore-> I have not tested a restore in the beta yet so don't know if that still happens.

    d. I'm still perplexed by the restore issues you have in general. Why would I be able to get a good restore first try yet you have to try multiple times?   Have you done a supervalidate on your file lately? Shot in the dark but wanted to ask. Though in re-reading #6 it looks like your restore of yesterday's good backup to your desktop worked the first time today correct?

  • GuyManDude
    GuyManDude Member ✭✭
    I agree, in my experience leaving Quicken open overnight or for multiple days is a very bad practice and guaranteed to introduce issues. Having any cloud backup service touch the Quicken file is very bad practice as well. I configured my pCloud service to exclude the active Quicken file from backup and only the Quicken backup files are backed up in the cloud.
  • tdreed1265
    tdreed1265 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    This is disappointing for sure. I too have experienced budget disappearing issues when leaving Quicken open overnight (PC sleep mode). All it takes is to get distracted and have to step away for a bit and PC goes into sleep mode, but I agree, best practice is to close (and backup) Quicken for each session. I suspect this issue is actually different than the "regular" budget disappearing issue, but that's just my sense on this with no actual proof.
    I have been running with the beta for several days with no issues as long as I do not enable mobile.
    I think it's unrelated, but when mobile was enabled, Quicken would just hang up on the PC synch. I tried twice and both times, Quicken hangs and then the Budget is gone. I continue to keep mobile disabled now and have had no problems with the Budget disappearing. Will continue to monitor.
  • mobleyw
    mobleyw Member ✭✭✭
    Very much appreciate the input, especially from experience with software and IT dev.

    1. I confess to leaving apps open on my PC frequently, usually because I plan to return and finish projects later. Was unaware this created possible problems. To the extent that re-opening Quicken occasionally caused budget loss, I have left it on very frequently. Re-opening and losing the budget very infrequent, not comparable to the regular frequent loss with "Restore". Noting the input above, I will backup and close Quicken and all software and turn off PC every night.

    2. Yes, I had "start-up" checked "yes" to require password log-in with each new Quicken start-up. I just switched it off. This habit just left over from when Windows not quite as secure as it is now in limiting access to PC in my absence.

    3. My reference to the "Cloud back-up Sequence" is my interpretation of what I see upon a restore (and a start-up occasionally). It's a green circle and very brief narrative with up and down arrows (suggesting uploads, downloads) referring to "banking" or "accounts", etc. Yes, this could be a "sync" of some sort, but a "sync" to where? My Quicken cloud backup is "OFF", there are no Quicken files in/on OneDrive, so I am perplexed at the concept of any "sync" at all... I could well be seeing your "brief synch info during a restore", but what is syncing? It might be noteworthy that his process seems to occur several seconds after the restored file is visualized. If I recall correctly:
    a. Restore command initiated with backup file chosen
    b. blank screen during restore
    c. Pop us says something like restore completed... press OK
    d. Quicken "opens" back up, invited to log in, log in
    e. Home screen of restored file visualized, which shows accounts, totals, etc
    f. Few seconds later: sync/backup as above occurs.

    4. You are right - after trying to "restore" x 3 the last file I backed up with budget visualized, I moved back one day and tried the file from the previous evening. Yes, it "restored" on the first try. Other than Quicken being left open all night along with my PC, there were no differences in those 2 files.

    5. I have not validated or super-validated since my prolonged interaction with Quicken support over 1 month ago. I may try that on the laptop but wait for now on this current beta version on the PC. Perhaps a bit overly cautious, but reluctant to validate or change anything without Quicken engineer input. Honestly, with my limited expertise, I'm not sure what validation and super-validation really does.

    Thanks to all very much for your help.
  • CMRater
    CMRater Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Not sure I understand point #3 completely, but I do not have to re-login to Quicken file after a backup.  Yes during restore.  But like you and others, I don’t understand why the cloud sync notification appears, even if only briefly, since I have that feature turned off.
    Quicken User Since - 1991
  • mtn_living
    mtn_living Member ✭✭✭✭
    I captured screen shots of that brief synching appearance during restore and sent those along with the budget file stuff to engineers and they asked for details so maybe that will get a looking at. Separately, I too have all cloud/mobile synching turned off because it caused a hiccup quite a while back. Memory is vague but stuff like very old transactions reappearing and other weirdness.

    On presumption beta validate engine was same as always I did a super validate the other day. I think I noted above it did find one damaged bill pay reminder and said it fixed it. I then went into bill pay and there was one reminder with basically no content so I deleted it. I was not missing anything that I could see. I had deleted two billpay reminders maybe two weeks ago so perhaps it was one of those.

    Haven’t had a lot of transactions to process from one step update lately but still daily use and budget all good. “He said fingers crossed.”
  • dzf22k
    dzf22k Member ✭✭
    Transported my desktop Quicken Premier (Ver. R42.8) complete backup files via flash drive to my Windows 10 Pro Ver. 21H2 laptop.

    Updated my laptop Quicken Premier version to R42.8 running locally with mobile & web SYNC: OFF. Verified that my budgets were present via Planning tab.

    I've been following a routine for updating my transactions:
    1. Manual transaction entries in banking accounts first.
    2. Select Planning tab to verify Budgets are present.
    3. Manually download banking financial transactions (QFX) files from institutions while remaining on the Planning tab.
    4. Import the QFX files while remaining on the Planning tab. If 'Activate One Step Update' popup window occurs during the import I select 'No, Do not activate...', then click the Close button.
    5. After completing all import of QFX files I select one of the individual account registers to process the transactions as Match/Add entries. After finishing the account processing I then select the Planning tab to verify the Budgets are still intact. Then select the next account register to be processed as Match/Add entries. After finishing that account processing I go back to the Planning tab again before selecting the next account. The process continues until all accounts are done.
    6. While on Planning tab I select 'Create Complete Backup' and save to the local laptop drive.
    7. Then while on the Planning tab I peform a One Step Update (primarily for investment transactions/price updates). Process any imported investment transactions in individual accounts in similar fashion as step 5 above (toggling to the Planning tab between indvidual account transaction updates).
    8. While on Planning tab I select 'Create Complete Backup' and overwrite the exising backup (since the Budgets are still intact).

    So far I've had no disappearing acts. We'll see if the trend continues (currently day 5).
  • mobleyw
    mobleyw Member ✭✭✭
    Another Update - still confusing...
    I followed all suggestions, closed Quicken yesterday after an uneventful backup to my thumbdrive as usual. Turned off the PC last night.
    This AM, re-opened Quicken to enter one transaction. Entered that transaction uneventfully. Briefly interrupted, left computer, returned a few minutes later, intending to backup and close Quicken. Upon visualizing Quicken, was notified that the file had closed unexpectedly and was invited to send error report, which I did. Re-opened Quicken and was immediately notified that no budget was present - the usual pop-up. Restored from the file preceding yesterday's close - same message = no budget. Tried that file again - same result. Each "restore" met with usual "cloud sync" sequence. Went to an earlier backup from yesterday. Restored from that file, noted Cloud sync again, but this time budget reappeared - first time with this earlier backup file.
    Noteworthy may be the fact that I had to log in again upon restoring the earlier file. Apparently turning off the "log in" preference yesterday after the earlier backup file was created was not applied to that earlier file. I would have thought "preferences" would have applied to all opened files from the time preferences were changed, but apparently that is not the case.
    Received another email that another version will be coming out soon - apparently others are still having troubles with the new version, like me.
    Thanks for all input and suggestions.
  • mobleyw
    mobleyw Member ✭✭✭
    Received update patch from Quicken engineer in email this AM. Turned on PC, opened Quicken and immediately invited to install patch - update. Did so. Opened Quicken again - and all is well. Budget is present. Hope this happens consistently. Have not tried "restore" yet.
  • dzf22k
    dzf22k Member ✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Received an email from [Removed - Private Info] Quicken. A new version was released to address the disappearing budget issue.

    Upon starting Quicken Premier running locally on my laptop today it updated to R42.19. I opened my file and Budgets are intact. I'm going to stick with my routine for updating account transactions and see what happens.
  • mtn_living
    mtn_living Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Would very strongly urge users to not post names or email details for quicken employees - or anyone really.
  • tdreed1265
    tdreed1265 Member ✭✭✭
    I've been using the R42 version of Quicken with Fix that was sent by Quicken support for the last week and have not had a budget disappearing issue. Yesterday I was sent an R42.19 version which is a production build. So far no issues relating the Budget. Will continue to monitor and report on the fix.
  • CMRater
    CMRater Member ✭✭✭✭
    Is R42.19 a beta intended to address budget disappearing?
    Quicken User Since - 1991
  • tdreed1265
    tdreed1265 Member ✭✭✭
    > @CMRater said:
    > Is R42.19 a beta intended to address budget disappearing?

    That's my understanding.
  • CMRater
    CMRater Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    I did not receive email from Quicken indicating that.  If that is the case, I should stress test budget access and functionality.  Is that your understanding mobleyw and mtn_living?
    Quicken User Since - 1991
  • CMRater
    CMRater Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    With R42.19 Ran Budget Report from toolbar report fine.  Went to modify budget - Disappeared.
    If that version was supposed to fix disappearing budget, It did Not.
    Restored file.  Was able to run budget report.  Went to access budget - Not There.
    Repeated, Restored file.  Was able to run budget report.  Went to access budget - It was there.
    Made changes.  Was able to run budget report and access budget.  Still don't consider Fixed, since budgets disappeared requiring two restores.
    Quicken User Since - 1991
  • mobleyw
    mobleyw Member ✭✭✭
    Update:
    Updated all accounts on PC this AM after update to 42.19 two days ago. Budget persistently visualized after several backups. Noted x 2 that Quicken "closed unexpectedly" upon clicking on budget tab after backup. Upon re-opening Quicken, budget still present. (I may have been to "quick" to click the budget tab after backing up, anxious to see if budget still present. Perhaps Quicken still working after the backup and overloaded software tasks.)

    After all updates of all accounts and confirming budget, backed up for Restore to laptop.

    Upon opening Quicken in laptop, invited to update. Updated to 42.19. Restored from thumb drive the last file backed up from PC, as above.
    1. Did note cloud backup sequence even though cloud sync turned off...
    2. Budget intact and visible.

    Other than the 2 unexpected closures, and the cloud sync sequence, things seem improved on my end referable to stability of recovering, restoring and viewing a budget, so far. I have also tried to change my bad habits: closing Quicken and turning off PC every evening.

    Will be away from my desk and PC x next several days - and will continue reporting progress when I return. Hoping to keep this blog open to report consistency and other participants experiences.
    Thanks to all for input.
  • mtn_living
    mtn_living Member ✭✭✭✭
    I have been carefully checking budget as I’ve done my normal daily one step updates and other activities and no issues. Both going into planning tab and running budget report all good. Still backing up frequently during use in case problem reappears.

    I did have unrelated one crash when I tried to do the Zillow update of a property value. Screen turned grey as an overlay then program froze. I checked task manager and Quicken was using between 20-30% of CPU, stayed that way for ten minutes and program did not respond. I eventually clicked close window on task bar for Quicken and that triggered crash reporting. Reopened program, did a super validate that found no issues. Checked zillow value and worked fine. 
  • dzf22k
    dzf22k Member ✭✭
    R42.19 seems to be working well so far with retention of Budgets. Have even varied slightly from my routine for manual updating and importing account QFX banking tranactions while remaining on the Planning tab with no ill effects.

    During import of QFX files I still select 'No Do Not Activate...', then click the Close button if the Activate One-Step Update prompt window appears.

    Running locally with Mobile & Web SYNC:OFF
  • CMRater
    CMRater Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Just downloaded my direct accounts through one-step and manually downloaded web connects.  Lots of activity as is end of month.  Accepted on bank account transactions and thought I would test budget access before I accepted about 20 more accounts activity.
    Was able to run budget report, so hopeful...Then went to access budgets through planning tab and Got the dreaded "This Quicken File contains no budgetable accounts or categories...."  So disappointing!

    R42.19 Definitely not a fix to disappearing budgets!

    I get to go through the restore process and download all over.  My experience is budget report will run, but access to budget is extremely tenuous.
    Quicken User Since - 1991
  • CMRater
    CMRater Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Update:  First Restore Failure, Second restore with same backup file able to access both budget and reports.  SO UNSTABLE!
    Quicken User Since - 1991
  • mtn_living
    mtn_living Member ✭✭✭✭
    Uggghhh….that is not good, my sympathies.

    Just to ask, and not that I expect it would make a big difference, but have you done a super validate on your file lately? Also, though likely not connected at all, a couple of weeks ago I ran “Microsoft .NET Framework Repair Tool” because of a tip I saw in another part of Quicken community. You can search that phrase and it will pop up. Quicken does rely on .net framework. Use at your own risk!
  • LowcarbNY
    LowcarbNY Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    My Budget condition has gotten worse. I'm not able to use Quicken at all.
    I restore from backup and my budget is there.
    I exit quicken (didn't even do any work) and then reopen the same file and "This quicken file contains no budgetable accounts or categories. The Budget feature cannot be used at this time." I've gone back a few levels of backup and am getting this on multiple backup files. So much for making frequent backups. I can see my budget right after restore but then I can't save the file and have it come back again. I haven't been able to make any changes since 7-23.

    I've also noticed that on the restored files (1st time access) and on the saved file that then opens w/o any budget that Quicken is losing my Quicken ID and Password. Sometimes it has my ID and asks for the password, sometimes I have to fill in both.




    Quicken Premier
    v R42.19
    Build 27.1.42.19
    Windows 11 Home
    Quicken for Windows since 1995
    Frequently loosing budgets since 2017
    Occasionally loosing budgest since 2012
  • tdreed1265
    tdreed1265 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    So far I've been running with R42.19 now for a few days without having lost the budget. I have not done any sync to mobile or any manual quote updates, both which seem to trigger the budget issue.
  • CMRater
    CMRater Member ✭✭✭✭
    Sorry Lowcarb.  I tried mtn_living’s suggestion to try repair Net.Frame.  I googled download, ran it, followed instructions a few times, then windows offered update to install net.frame.  After rebooting, ran quicken and may have helped?  Opened quicken and was able to immediately access budget from a file where budget was in tact.  Only tried once, so not sure if a true fix or not, but thought i’d share it with you.  I am running windows 10.  Note, his suggestion came with a “try at your own risk”.  I seemed to survive ok.  Perhaps a validate or super validate might help.  A more extreme measure would be to do a file copy, but you have reconnect all your bank accounts.

    Thanks for the suggestion mtn_living.  Will see if this helps long term.
    Quicken User Since - 1991
  • LowcarbNY
    LowcarbNY Member ✭✭✭
    > @CMRater said:
    >  Perhaps a validate or super validate might help.  A more extreme measure would be to do a file copy, but you have reconnect all your bank accounts.
    >
    > Thanks for the suggestion mtn_living.  Will see if this helps long term.

    I've done multiple iterations of validate, super V and also file copy on a restored backup that would visually present budgets. None of these would produce a result that would visually present the budget EXCEPT for one recent instance.
    The restored backup that was auto created when Q updated from 42.8 to 42.19 has successfully been opened and closed 3 times in a row (without doing any work in Q) without the budget disappearing.

    I have failed before with restoring from that backup. I'm at a loss to explain what I might have done differently with this most recent restore.
    Maybe it's just part of the randomness of the root cause.
    Quicken for Windows since 1995
    Frequently loosing budgets since 2017
    Occasionally loosing budgest since 2012
  • CMRater
    CMRater Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Quick Update:
    Was able to run budget reports and more importantly access budgets multiple times this morning after a downloading, accepting and running other types of reports.  Not convinced of permanent fix by any means yet, but successful experience today.
    I am noticing what seems to be a common principle to successful access to budgets on this discussion thread.  It seems that everyone (myself included) got better success after restoring a file with budget after updating to 42.19.  For me, I am also crediting this limited to success to mtn_living's suggestion to run Microsoft .NET Framework Repair Tool.
    Quicken User Since - 1991
  • LowcarbNY
    LowcarbNY Member ✭✭✭
    > @CMRater said:
    > It seems that everyone (myself included) got better success after restoring a file with budget after updating to 42.19.  For me, I am also crediting this limited to success to mtn_living's suggestion to run Microsoft .NET Framework Repair Tool.

    CMRater, I agree that my experience has somewhat improved over the last 24hrs but I do not attribute that to 42.19. To the contrary my problems got dramatically worse after I upgraded to 42.19. My success, so far, comes only with restoring some backups created prior to the 42.19 upgrade, which in my case was performed on 7/24. I used Q that day @ 42.19 with no apparent issues but the next time I opened my data file my budget was lost. I thought this was the "regular" loss of budget I've experienced so much since Q changed the budget structure post Q2014 version IIRC. That was usually recoverable by restoring a recent backup and redoing all the work I did my last session. Distasteful, but I would be able to continue on.
    Post upgrade to 42.19 everything changed:
    - Upgraded . Did work in Q closed file
    - Next session, opened file, budget is gone. Restore from backup, budget is there. redo all the work I did lost. Backup2. close file.
    - Next session, open file, budget is gone. Restore from Backup2, budget is NOT there. "@!*#". Restore from backup, budget is there, super validate, no errors, budget is there. redo the missing work Backup3. close file. Open file budget is gone. Restore Backup3, budget is NOT there.
    - Restore backup. Budget is there. close file without doing any work. Open file, budget is NOT there.

    Currently I have a file that can be opened and closed without lost of budget. I think that the magical incantation might have been:
    Open Quicken w/o a data file, exit Quicken
    Restore backup from file manager, do not open the file.
    Validate (not SV, check rebuild investments) .
    Then try to use the file.
    Maybe this is magic, maybe just coincidence, maybe Q has fixed something on the server side that was mucking things up ( I mentioned before that I was being prompted for my Quicken ID password and sometimes both the UserID and Password)

    I may try to do some actual work with the file I have now that is working but I'm nervous and don't have time to waste doing work and having it go "Poof".
    Quicken for Windows since 1995
    Frequently loosing budgets since 2017
    Occasionally loosing budgest since 2012
  • hjfcfonew
    hjfcfonew Member ✭✭
    Same issue on Quicken for Windows. I've tried all suggested remedies, and some worked initially, but eventually, the message "This Quicken file contains no budgetable accounts or categories. This Budget feature cannot be used at this time." returned. I've also used Quicken for 20 years,. I've given up on Quicken budgets. SAD!!!
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