How are you budgeting for your Mortgage?

Brent
Brent Member ✭✭
Seems the budget feature is new for Mac's Quicken, so maybe not a lot of people are in on this, but I'm mystified by a huge difference between Quicken for Mac 2017 and all other versions of Quicken I'm familiar with (Windows, Mac 2006 and prior).

It appears one cannot budget for transfers between accounts. This suggests that one cannot have a Liability Account for one's mortgage, reduce the liability with each payment (as a split transaction), and then have the budget account for the money spent that way. Instead, Quicken seems to want me to show the mortgage as an expense.

How are people handling this? The only things I can think of are:
  1. Create a dummy budget line that reflects the mortgage equity payments, then zero them out (each month) once the payments are made
  2. Send the equity payments to an Expense line, and then, after the year is over, manually change all the transactions back to the liability account
I'm hoping someone else has figured out a more elegant workaround!

Comments

  • Drbergen
    Drbergen Member ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I recently changed from QW to QM.  I also struggled with this, but I have my Mortgage Payments shown in my budget on a recurring basis.  I don't break out between Principal versus Interest on the budget, so just set up a simple category - Mortgage Payments.
    I also set up a liability account and have principal and mortgage interest payments broken out (set up on a recurring basis which I adjust monthly based on Mortgage Statement).  The categories I use are different than Mortgage Payment category above, and are not included in budget categories.  
    Not a perfect solution but works for me.
  • Brent
    Brent Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Hello Doug, and thanks for your response. My question about your method is this: what happens in your budget reporting when you look at the Mortgage Payments category? It sounds like from your answer that you split the transactions into a transfer to the Liability account and to and interest expense, the way that we would in QW or the 2007 and prior QM versions. But then, wouldn't those not show up in the budget reconciliation?
  • Drbergen
    Drbergen Member ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I have not set up as a transfer. 2 separate recurring transactions.


    1st recurring transaction ties to my checking account for the lump sum mortgage payment. This is what shows up in my budget report.


    2nd recurring transaction is for my liability account with categories of mortgage principal and mortgage interest. These categories are not included in my budget.



    Not as easy as QW but since my mortgage company does not download into Wuicken, I had to manually input anyway. Hope this helps,
  • Brent
    Brent Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    So, what's the "from" side of the second transaction? If it goes to the liability and interest, where does it come from?
  • Drbergen
    Drbergen Member ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Brent,
    This is not a transfer so it doesn't come from anything.  Similar to a "journal entry" each month.  Since it does not show in budget as the categories are excluded, not really concerned.
    When QM eventually changes, I'll need to change this approach, but seems to work for me.
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    Meanwhile, you can add your VOTE to Add Ability to Include or Exclude Transfers on Budgets.

    First, click on the underlined link above to go there, then click VOTE at the top of THAT page, so your will vote count for THIS feature and increase its visibility to the developers.

    While you are at it, you may want to add your VOTE to related IDEAS found on the List of Requests Related to Budgets. Click on the underlined link, then follow the instructions to add your vote to more related ideas.
     
    (If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)
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    (Canadian user since '92, STILL using QM2007)
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited January 2017
    Doug, I tried doing the separate transactions and it works on the account paying the bill.  However, I can't get the second transaction to reduce the loan correctly.  It applies both the principal and interest to the balance.  With the below amounts, my loan is reduced by $300 when it should be reduced by only $250:
    Loan Principal: $250
    Loan Interest: $50

    Any advice?
  • Drbergen
    Drbergen Member ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Agree it's not perfect. What I do monthly based on mortgage statement, I adjust to the correct balance.


    I've only been trying this for a few months since i switched to QM.


    Hope this helps. Wish they would adopt the QW version, as it would make it easier.


    My mortgage company doesn't download into Quicken so I'll probably be manually entering for awhile.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2018
    Budgeting is simply planning for cash-flow at the beginning of each month.  Since the valuation of your home typically fluctuates beyond the equity you add to it (in other words, if your home is worth $100,000 and your payment is $500 principle, and $500 interest, the value of the equity is variable after it's been 'invested' into the home.)  As that is the case, it's very easy get too granular when you create a budget.  There's really no need to budget both the interest and principle.  Simply budget the total payment as a cashflow expense, and rely on a comparative market analysis to determine the value of your asset (home.)  The liability can simply be updated from time to time statically as a single entry in the ledger.

    I used to track the entire amortization through Quicken with matching budgets etc, but it was unnecessary to be so detailed when the big picture is what matters, especially concerning this particular relationship in your financial planning (the asset / liability relationship for the house, I mean.)

    I think you're making it too difficult, although I get it, I'm a total numbers nerd...
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited April 2017
    I am not sure I am understanding the solution.  

     I am trying to print out a budget from last year to show my husband how we spend our money.  There is no category listed in the budget expense part showing principle paid on my loan.

     Therefore my report is not correct as it does not show principle...it does show interest expense and taxes and insurance.  But the split category only links to the loan and is not creating an expense for principle...does this make sense? 
  • Drbergen
    Drbergen Member ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    My budget only reflects the amount paid from my checking account to the mortgage company. I do not track the principal or interest for budget purposes.



    I track the principal and interest transactions in the mortgage account which I reconcile monthly based on mortgage statement.



    This seems to work for me until they have a QW transfer and amortization feature within QM.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited April 2017
    thanks doug.....seems that Quickens would have a solution to this ....I guess I'll change my account on my mortgage not to be linked to my loan balance
    Thank you
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2018
    I am having the same problem. For example:

    I have a $1000 payment to cover my monthly mortgage payment.

    In Quicken for Mac 5.5.7 that $1000 payment is broken down in the following manner:
    * $700 Mortgage Interest
    * $250 Transfer to Mortgage Liability Account (Principal)
    * $50 Home Insurance & Taxes

    My budget only reflects the $750 Mortgage Interest, Home Insurance and Taxes payments. There is no way to reflect the $250 principal payment, therefore my budget shows I've spent $750 of my budgeted $1000.

    Including transfers to select accounts in the budget feature, such as my mortgage liability account would allow me to budget for that extra $250.

    Quicken, I've been very happy with the latest changes made to the Mac product. I am a long time Quicken for Windows user and finally made the switch because I was tired of only using the laptop for Quicken. Keep the improvements coming!

    Thank you!
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2018

    I am having the same problem. For example:

    I have a $1000 payment to cover my monthly mortgage payment.

    In Quicken for Mac 5.5.7 that $1000 payment is broken down in the following manner:
    * $700 Mortgage Interest
    * $250 Transfer to Mortgage Liability Account (Principal)
    * $50 Home Insurance & Taxes

    My budget only reflects the $750 Mortgage Interest, Home Insurance and Taxes payments. There is no way to reflect the $250 principal payment, therefore my budget shows I've spent $750 of my budgeted $1000.

    Including transfers to select accounts in the budget feature, such as my mortgage liability account would allow me to budget for that extra $250.

    Quicken, I've been very happy with the latest changes made to the Mac product. I am a long time Quicken for Windows user and finally made the switch because I was tired of only using the laptop for Quicken. Keep the improvements coming!

    Thank you!

    Forget trying.

    Quicken Mac STILL doesn't allow for transfer categories in budgets and reports.

    Why?  Because, since it's a transfer the amount you paid in principal from your checking account zeroes out the amount that is credited to your mortgage loan account.

    Quicken doesn't allow you to select what accounts you want to use in your budget, such as checking and credit card accounts only (which are basically the only cash flow accounts).  Instead, they include ALL accounts and you get the "zeroing" out issue.  

    This, of course, makes the budgeting in Quicken Mac completely useless.  

    It's an ongoing issue that has manifested itself since Quicken Mac 2014...yet no one at Quicken development and programming feels that this is a big enough problem to fix anytime soon.

    Which, of course is ridiculous, is a HUGE bone of contention for Quicken Mac users and the number one reason I can't/won't ditch my Quicken Windows version.  
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    Meanwhile, don't forget to add your vote above here, if you have not already done so!

    You can also add your VOTE to Add Ability to Include or Exclude Accounts on Budgets.

    First, click on the underlined link above to go there, then click VOTE at the top of THAT page, so your will vote count for THIS feature and increase its visibility to the developers by seeking to have the features you need or desire end up in the latest version.

    And of course like above, you may want to add your VOTE to related IDEAS found on the 
    List of Requests Related to Budgets. Click on the underlined link, then follow the instructions to add your vote to more related ideas. Your VOTES matter!

    (If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)
    Have Questions? Help Guide for Quicken for Mac
    FAQs: Quicken Mac Quicken Windows Quicken Mobile

    Add your VOTE to Quicken for Mac Product Ideas

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen? Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (Canadian user since '92, STILL using QM2007)
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2018

    I am having the same problem. For example:

    I have a $1000 payment to cover my monthly mortgage payment.

    In Quicken for Mac 5.5.7 that $1000 payment is broken down in the following manner:
    * $700 Mortgage Interest
    * $250 Transfer to Mortgage Liability Account (Principal)
    * $50 Home Insurance & Taxes

    My budget only reflects the $750 Mortgage Interest, Home Insurance and Taxes payments. There is no way to reflect the $250 principal payment, therefore my budget shows I've spent $750 of my budgeted $1000.

    Including transfers to select accounts in the budget feature, such as my mortgage liability account would allow me to budget for that extra $250.

    Quicken, I've been very happy with the latest changes made to the Mac product. I am a long time Quicken for Windows user and finally made the switch because I was tired of only using the laptop for Quicken. Keep the improvements coming!

    Thank you!

    I use QWin and even though it has the ability to budget mortgage payments, I find it kludgey and dislike how it displays in my budget overview so I prefer to use the method outlined by user Doug Bergen in this thread.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2018

    I am having the same problem. For example:

    I have a $1000 payment to cover my monthly mortgage payment.

    In Quicken for Mac 5.5.7 that $1000 payment is broken down in the following manner:
    * $700 Mortgage Interest
    * $250 Transfer to Mortgage Liability Account (Principal)
    * $50 Home Insurance & Taxes

    My budget only reflects the $750 Mortgage Interest, Home Insurance and Taxes payments. There is no way to reflect the $250 principal payment, therefore my budget shows I've spent $750 of my budgeted $1000.

    Including transfers to select accounts in the budget feature, such as my mortgage liability account would allow me to budget for that extra $250.

    Quicken, I've been very happy with the latest changes made to the Mac product. I am a long time Quicken for Windows user and finally made the switch because I was tired of only using the laptop for Quicken. Keep the improvements coming!

    Thank you!

    Jerry, my understanding is that the developers certainly do know that this needs to be addressed, and they plan to. (It's a broader issue: not only how to budget loan payments, but how to budget for savings.) What's been holding them up was changes to Quicken Cloud (the mobile app) for budgeting; that's a separate product team at Quicken, and the Mac team didn't want to spend a ton of time on this, and then have to re-do their work to fit the requirements of the mobile app budget integration. Now, I know that's not a satisfactory resolution for Quicken Mac users -- wait a couple years and we'll get that done for you -- I'm just reporting what the product manager said last year when this topic was brought up in a different thread.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2018

    I am having the same problem. For example:

    I have a $1000 payment to cover my monthly mortgage payment.

    In Quicken for Mac 5.5.7 that $1000 payment is broken down in the following manner:
    * $700 Mortgage Interest
    * $250 Transfer to Mortgage Liability Account (Principal)
    * $50 Home Insurance & Taxes

    My budget only reflects the $750 Mortgage Interest, Home Insurance and Taxes payments. There is no way to reflect the $250 principal payment, therefore my budget shows I've spent $750 of my budgeted $1000.

    Including transfers to select accounts in the budget feature, such as my mortgage liability account would allow me to budget for that extra $250.

    Quicken, I've been very happy with the latest changes made to the Mac product. I am a long time Quicken for Windows user and finally made the switch because I was tired of only using the laptop for Quicken. Keep the improvements coming!

    Thank you!

    I'm just reporting what the product manager said last year when this topic was brought up in a different thread.

    The fact that the product manager said this LAST YEAR is problematic in itself.

    This has lingered since Quicken Mac 2014.  Here we are basically 5 years later and its still not been fixed.

    And everyone is OK with this?
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2018

    I am having the same problem. For example:

    I have a $1000 payment to cover my monthly mortgage payment.

    In Quicken for Mac 5.5.7 that $1000 payment is broken down in the following manner:
    * $700 Mortgage Interest
    * $250 Transfer to Mortgage Liability Account (Principal)
    * $50 Home Insurance & Taxes

    My budget only reflects the $750 Mortgage Interest, Home Insurance and Taxes payments. There is no way to reflect the $250 principal payment, therefore my budget shows I've spent $750 of my budgeted $1000.

    Including transfers to select accounts in the budget feature, such as my mortgage liability account would allow me to budget for that extra $250.

    Quicken, I've been very happy with the latest changes made to the Mac product. I am a long time Quicken for Windows user and finally made the switch because I was tired of only using the laptop for Quicken. Keep the improvements coming!

    Thank you!

    Jerry, there was no budgeting in Quicken 2015 when it debuted. Over time, they added budgeting features, bare-bones at first more fully-featured a little later, but it still doesn't do everything users want and need. For those who want to use budgeting, and have mortgages or other loans or savings goals, the current state of affairs is not satisfactory. I tried to explain above that the reason for the delay now is waiting for the Quicken Cloud team to complete integration of budgets -- for both Mac and Windows -- into the mobile app. The Mac team isn't going to add more features for budgeting until that project is done, because of the likelihood they'd need to re-engineer part of it. That may not be feel satisfactory, but that's the reality of the sequence of development work that they have explained to us.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2018

    I am having the same problem. For example:

    I have a $1000 payment to cover my monthly mortgage payment.

    In Quicken for Mac 5.5.7 that $1000 payment is broken down in the following manner:
    * $700 Mortgage Interest
    * $250 Transfer to Mortgage Liability Account (Principal)
    * $50 Home Insurance & Taxes

    My budget only reflects the $750 Mortgage Interest, Home Insurance and Taxes payments. There is no way to reflect the $250 principal payment, therefore my budget shows I've spent $750 of my budgeted $1000.

    Including transfers to select accounts in the budget feature, such as my mortgage liability account would allow me to budget for that extra $250.

    Quicken, I've been very happy with the latest changes made to the Mac product. I am a long time Quicken for Windows user and finally made the switch because I was tired of only using the laptop for Quicken. Keep the improvements coming!

    Thank you!

    And I'm trying to convey that the Quicken Mac team moves at a snail's pace.

    All the Quicken Mac budget needs is to be able to pick and choose which accounts to include in the budget...instead of Quicken presuming to have ALL accounts included.

    Just like you do with the New Reports feature.

    In the case of budgets, presumably only cash flow accounts need to be included (cash, checking, credit cards...since everything flows through them). 

    I'm guessing it's not rocket science to put a filter selection in something that's already there.  

    But then again, it's Quicken and I just scratch my head at most of what they attempt to accomplish.  What were the developers thinking when they put together the existing useless budget feature?

    While I appreciate your explanation, it's still unacceptable that this hasn't been completed already.  
This discussion has been closed.