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Tax Planner - any way to exclude certain accounts ?

Ps56k2

When using the Tax Planner - QWin Deluxe -
Is there any way to exclude certain accounts.
We have some "other" accounts that we keep track of within Quicken,
and any Divs, Cap Gains, or Interest from those accounts tends to cloud our specific tax info.

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Boatnmaniac

@ps56k - Can you provide some more detail on what kind of Quicken accounts these are? Also, what kind of investments they are? (Don't worry, I won't turn you in to the IRS.

There are things that can be done with some of these things to keep them out of Tax Planner but I hesitate to march blindly down perhaps the wrong path.

The biggest issue with the options I can think of is that in addition to keeping them out of Tax Planner they will also likely keep them out of the other tax reports.

Ps56k2

I have my son's Schwab investment account and also his Vanguard IRA account...

Both generate Divs that tend to skew the Tax Planner info.

Boatnmaniac

@ps56K - I had a similar situation with my mother's accounts. I ultimately decided that it was best to set up a separate Quicken file for her accounts. Much cleaner all the way around without trying to "fool" Quicken to get my reports and planning data correct. Have you considered doing that?

It would be pretty simple to do. Just save a copy of your data file under a different name (your son's?) and delete all of the accounts in there that are not his. Then in your data file you could delete his accounts so that only yours would remain.

Unless you have transfer transactions between your accounts and his it should be a really clean split and set up process. But if you do have such transfers, then instead of deleting accounts, you could simply close them so you don't lose that historical reference.

You wouldn't even need to set up any new PW's, online services, etc., since everything is already set up.

Ps56k2

tnx - just thought I had missed some setting like the usual "gear" to include/exclude accounts or other selection criteria. I have a couple of other accounts I "shadow"...

Its no big deal - just browse the tax info reports - don't depend on it...

Boatnmaniac

No, I don't think there's anything so simple as that. Most of the other ideas I had have to do with classifying securities as tax exempt or tax deferred, checking the "tax deferred" box on the Account Details and/or setting up unique categories without tax line associations for the transactions you don't want counted in your Tax Planner. A lot more work to set up, maintain and follow and all with potential downsides.

I just found it to be fastest and easiest without the potential downsides to set up separate Quicken files for each the 3 other family members I manage and plan finances for (my mother, my brother, my mother-in-law).

markus1957

Poke around in Account Details, Display Options for the account you want to exclude. Check the Keep This Account Separate box and they will not show. They will be totaled separately in the Account Bar also, but still available in Reports, not by default, you have to select them.

Sherlock

Boatnmaniac said:

@ps56K - I had a similar situation with my mother's accounts. I ultimately decided that it was best to set up a separate Quicken file for her accounts. Much cleaner all the way around without trying to "fool" Quicken to get my reports and planning data correct. Have you considered doing that?
It would be pretty simple to do. Just save a copy of your data file under a different name (your son's?) and delete all of the accounts in there that are not his. Then in your data file you could delete his accounts so that only yours would remain.
Unless you have transfer transactions between your accounts and his it should be a really clean split and set up process. But if you do have such transfers, then instead of deleting accounts, you could simply close them so you don't lose that historical reference.
You wouldn't even need to set up any new PW's, online services, etc., since everything is already set up.

We recently determined we're not able to successfully separate data files this way because Quicken thinks these files are the same cloud account (aka dataset) unless we also associate the file with a different Quicken ID (aka a different subscription $$). When the Quicken file is created, an identifier is embedded and is preserved across all forms of copy and backup. Even when we're not configured to sync with the Cloud, some data is being sync'd. For example, categories appear to be sync'd. This may lead to unexpected behavior and corruption.

Boatnmaniac

Sherlock said:

We recently determined we're not able to successfully separate data files this way because Quicken thinks these files are the same cloud account (aka dataset) unless we also associate the file with a different Quicken ID (aka a different subscription $$). When the Quicken file is created, an identifier is embedded and is preserved across all forms of copy and backup. Even when we're not configured to sync with the Cloud, some data is being sync'd. For example, categories appear to be sync'd. This may lead to unexpected behavior and corruption.

Interesting. Come to think of it, I now recall you and I had a discussion about this a while back.

There are two files that I separated this way.

One was in 2012/2013 after I started managing my mother's finances. I've never experienced any issues with having unique categories or odd behavior in either file because of that. However, that separation occurred before subscription so maybe that has something to do with that.

The other one is a test file that I keep. I do a Save As and rename my main file every couple of weeks or so. In it I have added and deleted categories, accounts and done some really oddball stuff to see what works and what doesn't. I've never seen any odd behavior in my main file because of this. But maybe I've just been lucky so far. I think I'll do something different for a test file going forward just to be safe.

The other 2 files I have were set up from scratch in just the last 2 years...one from before I subscribed and one from after. Both have some unique categories that are not shared and neither of them experience any odd behaviors, either.

All 5 data files use one Quicken ID.

Quicken has made a change. There used to be a link in Cloud Account preferences that showed me each of my Cloud Accounts (there was one for each Quicken file name) and I could delete any unused ones that I wanted to. Now I don't see that link anymore even though it is still referenced in Help. Now I don't know what is there. That's disturbing.

Boatnmaniac

markus1957 said:

Poke around in Account Details, Display Options for the account you want to exclude. Check the Keep This Account Separate box and they will not show. They will be totaled separately in the Account Bar also, but still available in Reports, not by default, you have to select them.

Duh! I should have thought of that but it didn't even cross my mind. Keeping the accounts separate does keep the data out of Tax Planner. And what's nice is that you can still select those separated accounts if you want to keep them included in reports and Investing Portfolio.

Sherlock

Boatnmaniac said:

Sherlock said:

We recently determined we're not able to successfully separate data files this way because Quicken thinks these files are the same cloud account (aka dataset) unless we also associate the file with a different Quicken ID (aka a different subscription $$). When the Quicken file is created, an identifier is embedded and is preserved across all forms of copy and backup. Even when we're not configured to sync with the Cloud, some data is being sync'd. For example, categories appear to be sync'd. This may lead to unexpected behavior and corruption.

Interesting. Come to think of it, I now recall you and I had a discussion about this a while back.
There are two files that I separated this way.
One was in 2012/2013 after I started managing my mother's finances. I've never experienced any issues with having unique categories or odd behavior in either file because of that. However, that separation occurred before subscription so maybe that has something to do with that.
The other one is a test file that I keep. I do a Save As and rename my main file every couple of weeks or so. In it I have added and deleted categories, accounts and done some really oddball stuff to see what works and what doesn't. I've never seen any odd behavior in my main file because of this. But maybe I've just been lucky so far. I think I'll do something different for a test file going forward just to be safe.
The other 2 files I have were set up from scratch in just the last 2 years...one from before I subscribed and one from after. Both have some unique categories that are not shared and neither of them experience any odd behaviors, either.
All 5 data files use one Quicken ID.
Quicken has made a change. There used to be a link in Cloud Account preferences that showed me each of my Cloud Accounts (there was one for each Quicken file name) and I could delete any unused ones that I wanted to. Now I don't see that link anymore even though it is still referenced in Help. Now I don't know what is there. That's disturbing.

I'm not able to tell you when Quicken started using the file identifier to link to the Cloud Account. To view the Cloud Accounts, we need to enable Sync (we don't have to actually sync anything) on the Mobile & Web preference and select OK. I suggest you try this using a test file and you should be able to determine if the remaining files have unique Cloud Accounts.

Chris_QPW

Sherlock said:

I'm not able to tell you when Quicken started using the file identifier to link to the Cloud Account.

I would bet it was from day one. As in the day they create the Intuit Id back in Quicken 2014.

mshiggins

Sherlock said:

Even when we're not configured to sync with the Cloud, some data is being sync'd. For example, categories appear to be sync'd.

Ugh. My categories are none of Quicken's business.

Sherlock

mshiggins said:

Sherlock said:

Even when we're not configured to sync with the Cloud, some data is being sync'd. For example, categories appear to be sync'd.

Ugh. My categories are none of Quicken's business.

Here is the thread: https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7874283/are-category-lists-attached-to-each-data-file-or-the-individual-quicken-id/p1

Boatnmaniac

Sherlock said:

Boatnmaniac said:

Sherlock said:

We recently determined we're not able to successfully separate data files this way because Quicken thinks these files are the same cloud account (aka dataset) unless we also associate the file with a different Quicken ID (aka a different subscription $$). When the Quicken file is created, an identifier is embedded and is preserved across all forms of copy and backup. Even when we're not configured to sync with the Cloud, some data is being sync'd. For example, categories appear to be sync'd. This may lead to unexpected behavior and corruption.

Interesting. Come to think of it, I now recall you and I had a discussion about this a while back.
There are two files that I separated this way.
One was in 2012/2013 after I started managing my mother's finances. I've never experienced any issues with having unique categories or odd behavior in either file because of that. However, that separation occurred before subscription so maybe that has something to do with that.
The other one is a test file that I keep. I do a Save As and rename my main file every couple of weeks or so. In it I have added and deleted categories, accounts and done some really oddball stuff to see what works and what doesn't. I've never seen any odd behavior in my main file because of this. But maybe I've just been lucky so far. I think I'll do something different for a test file going forward just to be safe.
The other 2 files I have were set up from scratch in just the last 2 years...one from before I subscribed and one from after. Both have some unique categories that are not shared and neither of them experience any odd behaviors, either.
All 5 data files use one Quicken ID.
Quicken has made a change. There used to be a link in Cloud Account preferences that showed me each of my Cloud Accounts (there was one for each Quicken file name) and I could delete any unused ones that I wanted to. Now I don't see that link anymore even though it is still referenced in Help. Now I don't know what is there. That's disturbing.

I'm not able to tell you when Quicken started using the file identifier to link to the Cloud Account. To view the Cloud Accounts, we need to enable Sync (we don't have to actually sync anything) on the Mobile & Web preference and select OK. I suggest you try this using a test file and you should be able to determine if the remaining files have unique Cloud Accounts.

@Sherlock – Thanks for telling me how I can see my Cloud Accounts, again. After creating a new Test A data file and enabling Sync I was able to see all of the Cloud Accounts. Each of my data files have unique Cloud Accounts except for my main test file which uses the same Cloud Account as my main data file.

I proceeded to test several different scenarios:

1) Test A (new file) / Test B (copy of Test A):

Enabled Sync in both files. Both files shared the same Cloud Account.
Created a new category in Test A: The new category showed up in Test B but only after running Sync in both accounts.
Disabled Sync in both accounts: Categories creation/deletion in one file had no impact on the other.

2) Test C (new file):

Created a new category in this file.
Enabled Sync: It created a new Cloud Account.
The new category in Test A & Test B had no impact on Test C, and vice versa, even after running Sync in all 3 files.

3) Main File / Test D (copy of Main File):

Sync not enabled for either account.
Main File: Created a new category and ran OSU.
Test D : The new category in the Main File was not listed. Ran OSU. The new category still was not listed.

#3 is representative of the process I’ve historically used for making and working with test files. As this limited testing shows, the critical factor in determining whether changes made in one file are reflected in the other copied file appears to be having Sync enabled and run in both files. When Sync is not enabled in both files, then changes made in one file have no impact on the other, even after running OSU in both files. That’s likely why I haven’t seen the issues you mentioned…because I don’t enable Sync on my main files and OSU alone doesn’t appear to cause the issue.

In general I guess I wouldn’t call this an issue at all. Sync is an option designed to sync data which is what it does. It only becomes an issue when saving a file under a different name, having Sync enabled and run in both files and then attempting to use the two files independently from each other, something that Sync wasn’t designed for.

Given this, it appears that if @ps56k were to follow my suggestion to split up his data file into two files it would work fine for him provided he does not enable nor use Sync in both of those files. Still, perhaps, @markus1957 ‘s suggestion might work well in meeting @ps56k ‘s needs and without the potential risks if Sync were to be enabled.

markus1957

@Boatnmaniac - Cloud Sync is not the only instance where copies of data files can corrupt each other or a Quicken server based file. Express Web Connect accounts if not in the same state (activated account in one file but then deactivated in the copy) in each file can cause issues. Maybe Online Billers and to a lesser extent Zillow and Credit Score.

Adding- To date there has been no verified instance of a data file copy being put into a state that completely isolates it from the original data file. Many have tried, all have ultimately failed.

Boatnmaniac

@markus1957 - So, are you simply trying to inform me of other potential issues or are you throwing a challenge at me?

Thanks for the additional comments. After reading through the posts in the link provided above by @Sherlock it's pretty obvious that are potentially quite a few risks posed by trying to run a copied file totally independent from the original file (or vice versa). I guess I just haven't pushed my copied test files in the areas of those other potential risks, yet, so I haven't observed them. It seems to me that what is needed is the opportunity to be able to save a file as a unique separate file that would create a new Cloud Account for it, not just be able to save it as a copy.