Is anyone having trouble with reconcile June 2020?

paguthrie

Previous reconciliation was correct. Balances correct. This month Quicken totals debits to be $36.00 more than the checked items actually total. Don't understand this.

Frankx

Hi @paguthrie,

Sounds like a transposition error to me (especially since you are doing a manual reconcile).  Look for amounts where the difference between the 1st and 2nd numbers to the left of the decimal have been transposed or switched.  For example $140.65 and $104.65.

Let me know how this goes.

Frankx
[Edited to fix typos]

Sherlock

I suggest you check the debit count.  If the count is off this could be an old bug where a transaction's dates would straddle the closing date causing the transaction to be included but not visible during reconcile.

paguthrie

I thought I checked that but will do again to be sure I didn't miss something. Thanks

paguthrie

No difference in debit count. Not sure what is the problem. Will wait until next statement to see if it corrects itself.

paguthrie

I continue to ponder this. I should have explained I do manual reconcile and do not download from my bank. I count 8 debits and the amounts are correct but the total is wrong. It is the math that is wrong. Previous statements were balanced.

Frankx

Hi @paguthrie,

Sounds like a transposition error to me (especially since you are doing a manual reconcile).  Look for amounts where the difference between the 1st and 2nd numbers to the left of the decimal have been transposed or switched.  For example $140.65 and $104.65.

Let me know how this goes.

Frankx
[Edited to fix typos]

paguthrie

Thank you!!! I knew it had to be me and not the bank or the computer but I couldn't see it. You are brilliant! Thank you again!

Frankx

Happy to help!  Have a Happy 4th of July!

Frankx

Chris_QPW

It isn't amazing that we (humans) can look at something a thousand times and see what we want to see, instead of what is actually there?   

Frankx

@Chris_QPW,

Yes, but CPA's are super human - or so I like to think!   

Sherlock

One of the advantages of importing transactions from a financial institution is that it help detect entry issues.

Chris_QPW

Sherlock said:

One of the advantages of importing transactions from a financial institution is that it help detect entry issues.

Another is not having to make those bad entries in the first place.  

For someone reason people seem to be hell bent on entering transactions as some kind of proof that the financial institution is "correct" when I have found that all the errors I have ever found are on my side or Quicken's.

Personally I do as little of manual entry as possible.

Frankly it makes for a very boring use case (with the exception of using Express Web Connect and all it problems for some lightly used accounts).  My typical daily importing and such is probably two to three minutes long.  10 to 30 seconds to start Quicken, one minute for the download, and one to two minutes to review transactions, and reconcile each account that has transactions.  That includes time for the reminders entered into the register that were estimates that have to be changed to the real amount and matched to the downloaded transaction.

NotACPA

One simple rule, that I learned MANY years ago, is: IF the difference in the amounts is evenly divisible by 9 ... look for a transposition error.

NotACPA

Frankx said:

@Chris_QPW,

Yes, but CPA's are super human - or so I like to think!   

WHY would you think that???

I certainly don't!

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Sherlock said:

One of the advantages of importing transactions from a financial institution is that it help detect entry issues.

Another is not having to make those bad entries in the first place.  

For someone reason people seem to be hell bent on entering transactions as some kind of proof that the financial institution is "correct" when I have found that all the errors I have ever found are on my side or Quicken's.

Personally I do as little of manual entry as possible.

Frankly it makes for a very boring use case (with the exception of using Express Web Connect and all it problems for some lightly used accounts).  My typical daily importing and such is probably two to three minutes long.  10 to 30 seconds to start Quicken, one minute for the download, and one to two minutes to review transactions, and reconcile each account that has transactions.  That includes time for the reminders entered into the register that were estimates that have to be changed to the real amount and matched to the downloaded transaction.

We take the other tack.  We attempt to enter all our transactions well in advance of their availability for import.  I'll bet our import time is quicker most of the time as the transactions usually match and there's no need to edit the transactions at all.  We reconcile to statements obtained from the financial institution and again most of the time there is no need to correct a thing.  Quickfill and reminders make manual entry significantly more consistent.

The main reason we manually enter transactions in advance of import is so we may more accurately project balances and track delays on our orders and returns.

Chris_QPW

Sherlock said:

I'll bet our import time is quicker most of the time as the transactions usually match and there's no need to edit the transactions at all.  We reconcile to statements obtained from the financial institution and again most of the time there is no need to correct a thing.  Quickfill and reminders make manual entry significantly more consistent.

The main reason we manually enter transactions in advance of import is so we may more accurately project balances and track delays on our orders and returns.

I will take that bet!

With the exception of rare estimated reminder change/match I almost never have to edit any transaction.  Between properly setting up renaming and memorized payees, they all get the correct categories (my categories are pretty much one payee to one category).  Every once in a while I have a new payee and I have Quicken setup so that it doesn't fill in any "guessed category", just leaves it blank.  So I see a blank payee, put in the right category, and select Ctrl+M to memorize it.

I have very few reminders too because I don't use bill pay.  I use automatic payments, where almost all of the bills are paid by my credit card that I get cash back on.  So most of my "cash flow" predictions are nothing more than making sure I have enough money in the checking account for when the credit cards come due and are automatically paid from that checking account.  Gives me 30 days to see it coming.
Other reminders are for ones that come out of the checking account because there isn't that choice.

BTW the "rare estimated reminders" are usually the transfer reminders for the credit card payments.  I know the statement balance in advance and can put it in, but if anything is returned during the period between the statement close and the payment the number is off by that amount.

Also my transactions go directly into my register, which means that I can scan all the new transactions for the correct categories and such all at once and since I download every day this in only a few in any given register.  It literally takes me seconds.  And I also reconcile to online balances, so that is usually Ctl+R press Done.

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Sherlock said:

I'll bet our import time is quicker most of the time as the transactions usually match and there's no need to edit the transactions at all.  We reconcile to statements obtained from the financial institution and again most of the time there is no need to correct a thing.  Quickfill and reminders make manual entry significantly more consistent.

The main reason we manually enter transactions in advance of import is so we may more accurately project balances and track delays on our orders and returns.

I will take that bet!

With the exception of rare estimated reminder change/match I almost never have to edit any transaction.  Between properly setting up renaming and memorized payees, they all get the correct categories (my categories are pretty much one payee to one category).  Every once in a while I have a new payee and I have Quicken setup so that it doesn't fill in any "guessed category", just leaves it blank.  So I see a blank payee, put in the right category, and select Ctrl+M to memorize it.

I have very few reminders too because I don't use bill pay.  I use automatic payments, where almost all of the bills are paid by my credit card that I get cash back on.  So most of my "cash flow" predictions are nothing more than making sure I have enough money in the checking account for when the credit cards come due and are automatically paid from that checking account.  Gives me 30 days to see it coming.
Other reminders are for ones that come out of the checking account because there isn't that choice.

BTW the "rare estimated reminders" are usually the transfer reminders for the credit card payments.  I know the statement balance in advance and can put it in, but if anything is returned during the period between the statement close and the payment the number is off by that amount.

Also my transactions go directly into my register, which means that I can scan all the new transactions for the correct categories and such all at once and since I download every day this in only a few in any given register.  It literally takes me seconds.  And I also reconcile to online balances, so that is usually Ctl+R press Done.

Sounds like you'd lose the bet as we never have the rare estimated reminder change/match or new payee.  We obviously spend the time on the entry but not during the import.

I suspect we maintain greater detail in our transactions than you do.  Many of our transactions are splits and include unique memos.  

Like you, we use automatic bill payment to cash back credit cards and the bill payment service of a financial institution but, in Quicken, we use reminders to enter the payments in advance of their availability for import.

Regarding returns, as we have entered the transactions in advance, we should have a more accurate projected payment estimate.

We download every day as well but we use the Download tab (except for one register which ignores the Automatic entry setting).  We find it easier to step through the tab than the blue icons.

I suppose if I were the only one person in a multi-person household maintaining the Quicken file, I would rely on import for the transactions.

Frankx

Okay Folks - I am going to call this duel "a draw", "a tie", a "you both get first place trophies" outcome.

Lively discussion, though!!!

  

Frankx

Chris_QPW

Sherlock said:

Sounds like you'd lose the bet as we never have the rare estimated reminder change/match or new payee.  We obviously spend the time on the entry but not during the import.

I suspect we maintain greater detail in our transactions than you do.  Many of our transactions are splits and include unique memos.  

Like you, we use automatic bill payment to cash back credit cards and the bill payment service of a financial institution but, in Quicken, we use reminders to enter the payments in advance of their availability for import.

Regarding returns, as we have entered the transactions in advance, we should have a more accurate projected payment estimate.

We download every day as well but we use the Download tab (except for one register which ignores the Automatic entry setting).  We find it easier to step through the tab than the blue icons.

I suppose if I were the only one person in a multi-person household maintaining the Quicken file, I would rely on import for the transactions.

Nope it would be highly unlikely for you to enter these transactions accurately unless you are altering the amount constantly.  I'm not talking about recording the refund transactions (those are automatic for me), I'm talking about what it does to the payment.

Statement balance for credit card comes in.
From this point on the charges go towards the next statement, but the refunds go towards the payment for the statement that just closed.

So to have an accurate number you would have to do something like this.
Change the transfer/payment reminder (or transaction in the register) to the statement balance.  Now as each refund comes in, change the payment amount to subtract that amount from it, all the way up until the payment is actually paid, which is on the payment date.  Do you do that?

And note this is a once a month operation.  Hardly worth mentioning for the 10 seconds it takes me.  I would bet that you spend more time in the Downloaded Transaction tab than I do on this.

And I don't "step through the blue dots" (when the status column is expanded the blue dots/blue pencil are New and New Match).

I scan the New/New Match transactions to make sure they are accurate.  At this point I can click on one of them and select to mark them all reviewed.  But I don't even do that.  Ctrl+R brings up the reconcile, and then Done (when no reconcile problems, which is 99.999% of the time).  Not only does that marked the transactions reconciled it marks them reviewed (this is the main reason you should never combine automatic transaction entry mode with automatic reconcile mode since it would basically bypass any reviewing of transactions for accurate categories, but is perfect for doing a review and then a reconcile).

And yes I totally agree that you have much more details in your transactions.
My wife and I have never found a need for such.  And yes I'm the only one "maintaining" the Quicken accounts.  My wife looks at it for the transactions she is interested in, but doesn't do any of the entry.

But even if I "lose" in the time of downloading (which I doubt) you upfront work is "tremendous" in comparison to mine.  And it is the overall time involved I care about.

BTW it is my wife that does track the refunds (since she is the one that does them).  She maintains such a list outside of Quicken, and then goes into Quicken from time to time (or asks me) to determine if they have come through.

I suppose if she was more into using Quicken, she could have just entered the refund transaction into the register, and I would pick it up as a match.  The more I think of it, I'm probably going to suggest that to her.

Chris_QPW

Actually this is neat!

I think I'm going to alter my method of doing this.
I'm going to change the reminder to be for the statement date instead of the payment date.  And when I get the email that tells me that amount change it to what it should be.

And then on the refunds I'm going to get my wife to enter those, and at the same time if needed alter the payment amount.

I will have even less work to do.  I will save me 10 seconds a month!

But really what is more important is that I think it will be easier on my wife for tracking the refunds.

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Actually this is neat!

I think I'm going to alter my method of doing this.
I'm going to change the reminder to be for the statement date instead of the payment date.  And when I get the email that tells me that amount change it to what it should be.

And then on the refunds I'm going to get my wife to enter those, and at the same time if needed alter the payment amount.

I will have even less work to do.  I will save me 10 seconds a month!

But really what is more important is that I think it will be easier on my wife for tracking the refunds.

Glad I could help save you 10 seconds a month and make tracking refunds easier for your wife.

In our case, we set the credit card reminder to trigger when we expect the statement will be available (the number of days varies a bit by credit card), reconcile, and enter the payment transaction .  We don't change the payment due date but we're able to adjust the future payment.  We're able to track the expected refunds as they're already in the register and can adjust the payment as they clear.

Note: My spouse does most of the transaction entry, credit card reconciliation, and bill payment.  I tend to the import, income, transfers, loans, investments, and taxes.  

Set up wise, we each use Windows Remote Desktop Client to access a Windows desktop we maintain for Quicken.  This enables minimal coordination and worked great when we traveled (pre-pandemic).

I can still remember the arguments my parents had when my dad would attempt to balance their joint accounts.  I suspect Quicken has saved a few marriages.

Chris_QPW

Well that was a fail.  

My wife told me that she tracks the refunds by keeping the receipts, and that she isn't going take the trouble of entering them into Quicken to save me 10 seconds a month of work of changing the payment amount.  

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Well that was a fail.  

My wife told me that she tracks the refunds by keeping the receipts, and that she isn't going take the trouble of entering them into Quicken to save me 10 seconds a month of work of changing the payment amount.  

Bummer. 

I guess the lesson is we each use Quicken in a way that works best for us.