Using Quicken for Mac 2007 with High Sierra - entries disappear

nosoap1

My MacbookPro cannot be upgraded past High Sierra. And no current Quicken app is compatible. Quicken 2007 has been working with no problem for 6 months. Suddenly, when I reopen the app, years of entries are gone. I have some relatively recent backup files. Will it help to reinstall the software? Otherwise, I'll be forced to use [removed] some other HIgh Sierra compatible software (can't afford a new computer).

jacobs

First, just to correct your misunderstanding, the current Quicken Mac does work on macOS High Sierra. That's the minimum OS supported, but it does work. This is from the official Quicken release notes for Quicken Mac:

Subscription Release of Quicken for Mac Release Notes 

New system requirements

• NEW - Quicken v6.0 requires macOS 10.13 or higher.

So upgrading the the current Quicken is an option for you. But getting a clean data file before you do so would still be your goal, so let's talk about the corrupted data…

I used Quicken 2007 for many years. And I did have some data corruption problems on a few occasions. The database used in Quicken 2007 is very old and prone to occasional data integrity issues. In my experience, the Quicken application itself is very rarely the source of such problems, so re-installing it is rarely a cure to problems; the problems are almost always in the data file(s).

The first thing to try is to reindex your data file: press Command-Option-B. Often when there are database issues, the data is intact but the indexes get corrupted. Such corruption sometimes causes transactions to appear out of chronological order, or to disappear entirely. If that's the case for you, then this simple command will magically make all your old transactions reappear. 

If reindexing doesn't solve your problem, then I'd make a copy of your most recent backup when things were still okay, and try opening the copy. (Making a copy insures the original backup remains untouched, should you need to go back to it later.) If that's not better, continue making copies of older backups and checking them to see if you have any backup which has most of your recent data.

jacobs

I'm glad the reindexing worked! In my last year or two using Quicken 2007, I found I needed to do that reindexing at least once every couple months. I don't know if it got worse near the end because my number of transactions was near the limit; I periodically got a message that my transaction file was full, and I had to delete some old transactions to continue. I was happy that I could recover, but it was a good reminder to me that I was on somewhat shaky ground as long as I continued to use Quicken 2007.

Would you be better off upgrading to the current Quicken? Wow, that's actually complicated question to answer! There are a few definite pros to moving to the current Quicken.

• You'd be on a solid, modern, industrial strength database.
• You'd be on a platform that you know has a future.
• You wouldn't have to worry about reaching a dead-end for moving your data forward if Quicken decides at some point in the future to stop offering the converter for Quicken 2007 data files. 
• You'd be able to get support from Quicken should you need it.
• You'd be able to download transactions from financial institutions, should you want to.
• You'd get ongoing software updates and bug fixes as long as you maintain your subscription.
• There are some things Quicken Mac does better than Quicken 2007.

And there are some obvious cons to moving to the current Quicken:

• You'd have to start paying the annual subscription fee.
• You'd have to spend some time learning the new user interface and getting comfortable with a program that looks different and does some things differently.
• If they increase the macOS requirements in the future, you'll be stuck on that revision of Quicken until you can replace your Mac with one running a newer operating system. (But they've only upped the system requirements once in the past 6 years.) 
  
• There are some things Quicken 2007 does better than modern Quicken Mac, and there are some Quicken 2007 features don't exist in Quicken Mac yet.

In my view, the last bullet point is the critical one for deciding whether to move forward or not: does Quicken Mac have the features/functionality which you need? We all use Quicken differently, and use different features and options in the software, so what's fine for me might not be for you, and what you'd see as a show-stopper issue might be a no-big-deal to me. You could spend hours reading posts on this forum about differences between the programs, but I actually don't advise doing too much of that; many of the posts on this site are old, and the software is constantly evolving -- which is a good thing! -- to add more functionality.

I got involved with modern Quicken back when it was first being beta tested back in 2014, and while I continued to try it and use it a little, those early releases had too many features missing for me to make the jump off Quicken 2007. But a year ago, I decided that the program had advanced enough for me to make that leap without hurting myself, and I'm glad I did. There are definitely some ease-of-use things I miss from Quicken 2007 which I hope will one day make it into modern Quicken Mac, but there are also some things I like better about the modern program, and in the end, I can get all the information I need from Quicken for my needs.

For you, the best way to decide whether Quicken Mac is a good move for you is to try it yourself. Quicken doesn't offer a free trial like some software companies, but it does offer a 30-day money back guarantee, so you can purchase it, use it for a few weeks, and get your money back if you decide it doesn't meet your needs. The problem with that is you have to get used to the new program enough that you can make a fair evaluation. Some people have an immediate knee-jerk negative reaction to things in the interface simply because they seem different, and people don't inherently like change. But there are videos and articles to help you, and you can get a free one-hour one-on-one orientation session with a Quicken representative to help speed you up the learning curve. and fellow Quicken users on this forum are happy to help answer the questions you'll inevitably have. 

Sorry for the non-answer answer, but there's no single right answer for everyone. I hope this at least provides some insights and food for thought.

jacobs

In my experiences with Quicken 2007 in recent years, reindexing generally wan't needed repeatedly in a short period of time. Sometimes, Quicken would quit during reindexing and need to be restarted, when it would again reindex and then be okay. But everyone's mileage may vary, so just keep an eye on it… and keep backups religiously.

The location of your backup files doesn't matter, as long as you can access them and know when they are from. Storing at least some of them on your internal drive and some on your external drive is good insurance against one drive or the other failing unexpectedly.

Side note: since you're using a MacBook Pro which is a decade old, hard drive failure is generally a matter of when, not if. If you don't have a hard drive to do full-disk backups, using utilities like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper, or Time Machine, I'd strongly recommend investing less than $100 in an external drive you could use for that purpose. You don't want to be confronted with a dead Mac and incomplete data backups.

I can't really comment on the alternative software you mentioned because (a) I've never used it, and (b) Quicken doesn't allow discussion about alternatives to Quicken on this forum. The reviews I've read seemed pretty mixed; as with Quicken, it comes down to how well any product meets your personal finance needs. Is it worth it to you to learn a new program and whether you can move your data. (Exporting from Quicken 2007 to import into other software can be problematic, as I don't think any software can read a native Quicken 2007 data file.)

jacobs

First, just to correct your misunderstanding, the current Quicken Mac does work on macOS High Sierra. That's the minimum OS supported, but it does work. This is from the official Quicken release notes for Quicken Mac:

Subscription Release of Quicken for Mac Release Notes 

New system requirements

• NEW - Quicken v6.0 requires macOS 10.13 or higher.

So upgrading the the current Quicken is an option for you. But getting a clean data file before you do so would still be your goal, so let's talk about the corrupted data…

I used Quicken 2007 for many years. And I did have some data corruption problems on a few occasions. The database used in Quicken 2007 is very old and prone to occasional data integrity issues. In my experience, the Quicken application itself is very rarely the source of such problems, so re-installing it is rarely a cure to problems; the problems are almost always in the data file(s).

The first thing to try is to reindex your data file: press Command-Option-B. Often when there are database issues, the data is intact but the indexes get corrupted. Such corruption sometimes causes transactions to appear out of chronological order, or to disappear entirely. If that's the case for you, then this simple command will magically make all your old transactions reappear. 

If reindexing doesn't solve your problem, then I'd make a copy of your most recent backup when things were still okay, and try opening the copy. (Making a copy insures the original backup remains untouched, should you need to go back to it later.) If that's not better, continue making copies of older backups and checking them to see if you have any backup which has most of your recent data.

nosoap1

THANK YOU!!!! You've saved me major headaches. The reindexing worked, at least for now.

Would I be better off updating to the current Quicken rather than sticking with 2007? I personally stopped upgrading when they went to the subscription model, particularly since 2007 served my purposes well. I truly appreciate your input.

Dan (nosoap1)

jacobs

I'm glad the reindexing worked! In my last year or two using Quicken 2007, I found I needed to do that reindexing at least once every couple months. I don't know if it got worse near the end because my number of transactions was near the limit; I periodically got a message that my transaction file was full, and I had to delete some old transactions to continue. I was happy that I could recover, but it was a good reminder to me that I was on somewhat shaky ground as long as I continued to use Quicken 2007.

Would you be better off upgrading to the current Quicken? Wow, that's actually complicated question to answer! There are a few definite pros to moving to the current Quicken.

• You'd be on a solid, modern, industrial strength database.
• You'd be on a platform that you know has a future.
• You wouldn't have to worry about reaching a dead-end for moving your data forward if Quicken decides at some point in the future to stop offering the converter for Quicken 2007 data files. 
• You'd be able to get support from Quicken should you need it.
• You'd be able to download transactions from financial institutions, should you want to.
• You'd get ongoing software updates and bug fixes as long as you maintain your subscription.
• There are some things Quicken Mac does better than Quicken 2007.

And there are some obvious cons to moving to the current Quicken:

• You'd have to start paying the annual subscription fee.
• You'd have to spend some time learning the new user interface and getting comfortable with a program that looks different and does some things differently.
• If they increase the macOS requirements in the future, you'll be stuck on that revision of Quicken until you can replace your Mac with one running a newer operating system. (But they've only upped the system requirements once in the past 6 years.) 
  
• There are some things Quicken 2007 does better than modern Quicken Mac, and there are some Quicken 2007 features don't exist in Quicken Mac yet.

In my view, the last bullet point is the critical one for deciding whether to move forward or not: does Quicken Mac have the features/functionality which you need? We all use Quicken differently, and use different features and options in the software, so what's fine for me might not be for you, and what you'd see as a show-stopper issue might be a no-big-deal to me. You could spend hours reading posts on this forum about differences between the programs, but I actually don't advise doing too much of that; many of the posts on this site are old, and the software is constantly evolving -- which is a good thing! -- to add more functionality.

I got involved with modern Quicken back when it was first being beta tested back in 2014, and while I continued to try it and use it a little, those early releases had too many features missing for me to make the jump off Quicken 2007. But a year ago, I decided that the program had advanced enough for me to make that leap without hurting myself, and I'm glad I did. There are definitely some ease-of-use things I miss from Quicken 2007 which I hope will one day make it into modern Quicken Mac, but there are also some things I like better about the modern program, and in the end, I can get all the information I need from Quicken for my needs.

For you, the best way to decide whether Quicken Mac is a good move for you is to try it yourself. Quicken doesn't offer a free trial like some software companies, but it does offer a 30-day money back guarantee, so you can purchase it, use it for a few weeks, and get your money back if you decide it doesn't meet your needs. The problem with that is you have to get used to the new program enough that you can make a fair evaluation. Some people have an immediate knee-jerk negative reaction to things in the interface simply because they seem different, and people don't inherently like change. But there are videos and articles to help you, and you can get a free one-hour one-on-one orientation session with a Quicken representative to help speed you up the learning curve. and fellow Quicken users on this forum are happy to help answer the questions you'll inevitably have. 

Sorry for the non-answer answer, but there's no single right answer for everyone. I hope this at least provides some insights and food for thought.

nosoap1

Thanks again. Haven't checked yet today to see if the reindexing is holding. I did save a Quicken backup to an external hard drive, in case. Should I save it to the regular Quicken Backup folder as well? Also, while waiting for your early response, I downloaded a trial copy of NCH Moneyline, but haven't tried it yet. Any thoughts? My thought processes are digesting your input!

jacobs

In my experiences with Quicken 2007 in recent years, reindexing generally wan't needed repeatedly in a short period of time. Sometimes, Quicken would quit during reindexing and need to be restarted, when it would again reindex and then be okay. But everyone's mileage may vary, so just keep an eye on it… and keep backups religiously.

The location of your backup files doesn't matter, as long as you can access them and know when they are from. Storing at least some of them on your internal drive and some on your external drive is good insurance against one drive or the other failing unexpectedly.

Side note: since you're using a MacBook Pro which is a decade old, hard drive failure is generally a matter of when, not if. If you don't have a hard drive to do full-disk backups, using utilities like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper, or Time Machine, I'd strongly recommend investing less than $100 in an external drive you could use for that purpose. You don't want to be confronted with a dead Mac and incomplete data backups.

I can't really comment on the alternative software you mentioned because (a) I've never used it, and (b) Quicken doesn't allow discussion about alternatives to Quicken on this forum. The reviews I've read seemed pretty mixed; as with Quicken, it comes down to how well any product meets your personal finance needs. Is it worth it to you to learn a new program and whether you can move your data. (Exporting from Quicken 2007 to import into other software can be problematic, as I don't think any software can read a native Quicken 2007 data file.)

nosoap1

Sorry -- didn't read all the ground rules. I obviously prefer sticking with a known quantity. As for the MacbookPro, it was underused during its early life, was scrubbed clean by a certified Mac repair facility, and had High Sierra installed. I also backed up the previous user's (my wife) files on an external drive, and back up my stuff on Time Machine every couple of weeks. I'm fairly computer literate, and trying to up my grade. Thanks again!

jacobs

Sounds good! I included the note about backups only because I'm always sad when I read posts on this forum by users who have lost data due to lack of backups. I've had hard drives fail, and had a near disasters, so I'm a big believer in multiple layers of backup for important data. So I try to encourage fellow Quicken users to take the relatively easy steps to cover themselves and prevent future disasters.

As for your MacBook Pro, it sounds like you've taken all reasonable precautions. That said, spinning hard drives can die at any time -- sometimes due to heavy use, sometimes simply age, sometimes a drop or shock, sometimes something completely random.  Or they can run for 15+ years without a hiccup. One just never knows.

I had an external drive from a reputable manufacturer which I only used for whole disk backups which I kept at work in case of a disaster at my home. It was used infrequently, but when the hard drive in my MacBook Pro started failing and I replaced it, I went to restore a backup from the lightly used external drive and discovered to my dismay that it was functional but had some bad sectors and couldn't complete the restore. (Fortunately, I had a Time Machine I was able to restore from.) Most hard drives are extremely reliable, but because they can fail at any time, and most will fail eventually, it's worth taking the necessary steps to protect yourself with at least one, and ideally multiple, backups.

Best wishes!

smayer97

On the issue of backups, starting about 11 years ago I had a series of 8 failures in 22 months (statistical outlier?)....6 were hard drives and 2 were hard drive enclosures (so the drive content was not lost), followed by a 9th 6 months later. Harrowing experience to say the least (especially since some of the failures started as intermittent problems that did not obviously point to the drive being the problem, so a lot of time was spent troubleshooting to narrow down the source).

Some of these drives were less than a year old and under warranty. And I tried all quality of drives. And as time progressed, I moved to only use drives with LONG warranties (5yrs). But even those failed... it simply saved me the replacement cost.

In this series of incidents, I had 3 different types of backups...mirror RAIDs, Time Machine and duplicated drives (using Carbon Copy), with a total of 6 drives at the peak (2 main in a mirrored RAID and 4 backups). Even with that, I ended up losing some of my older backups but fortunately did not lose any real data or anything critical BUT it came close, VERY close. Had I not had that many backups I surely would have lost real data.

Since then, 5 years ago I had another 2 drives fail, and in the last 1 1/2 yrs I have had 4 drives fail, some failing right from the manufacturer (DOA). And these are not low end drives.

Drive quality has gone down in my experience and research, as many drive manufacturers rely more on customer claims than internal testing (it takes several days to a week or more to properly test new drives due to the sheer size of them e.g 6TB+ (which I now do with every new drive) ... so I guess it is becoming increasingly impractical for manufacturers).

SO, all this is to say BACKUPS are CRITICAL... it is not a matter of IF but definitely WHEN!

P.S. I think I may be having a problem with yet another one at the moment

nosoap1

Boy, am I glad I'm not a hard drive in your rig! Just kidding, but it seems you've had some true bad luck. I totally agree on updating backup drives periodically, but if I have a "mature" drive that's caused no issues, I'll stick with it until it tells me otherwise. Thanks to both of you for your wisdom.