Questions about making a file copy in R34.16 [edited]

fggates
fggates Windows Beta Beta
I updated my Quicken Premier to R34.16 this week. Now the File|Copy utility is missing necessary behaviors.

Rationale:
I have a 375MB Quicken file dating back 23 years. It is very very valuable to me. I take a backup every day and each weekend I take a File|Copy. I take a File|Copy since it consolidates the QDF file (removes deleted transactions, reoorders the database, other tidying tasks - it doesn't just make a file copy of the QDF byte-for-byte).

Three times during my Quicken career I have suffered a corrupted datafile which does not manifest until I take the weekly copy. Then the File|Copy option reported a database corruption and an inability to make a copy. I then have to laboriously re-enter the week's data onto the previous week's copy and copy that. The Validate and Super-Validate options *do not* detect those database errors when they occur. The only time they show up is in the record-by-record meticulous File|Copy operation which also consolidates and resequences the QDF.

SO: taking a weekly File|Copy is a vital and necessary part of my backup regimen that has saved my QDF file three times. Without it I would have lost months, perhaps even years of data without realizing it. In my cases the corruption was detected by File|Copy but manifested as a silent corruption of payee names, payee values, and odd-charactered unrecognized categories in random registers in transactions that were undeletable.

Now in 34.16:
The menus have been reorganized - fine - but the dialog which I recognize as the old File|Copy now deliberately disconnects the file from my online sources. I would need to re-enter all my passwords and associate all my accounts to Quicken accounts again. That is some 30+ accounts across 12 financial institutions. I do not - cannot - be doing that every week.

Request:
Where is the old File|Copy menu option which consolidates, defrags, and repacks the QDF datafile but also retains all the online account associations and passwords? Is there a simultaneous button press combination similar to Super-Validate which I must use?

Suggestion:
Restore the earlier File|Copy behaviors. Taking a copy/consolidation of the QDF file is a necessary and vital part of any user's backup plan. A simple Windows copy file does not do the same consolidation and does not detect the database corruptions that the record-by-record File|Copy behavior does.

Thank you.

- Frank

Answers

  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 3
    Contrary to the title you chose for this discussion, you are able to make a file copy.  You just don't want to have to manually reestablish the Online Services if you choose to use the copied file instead of the original file.

    Note: You may still use the file copy to attempt to detect the type of corruption you have managed to trigger in your Quicken file three times, but, by proceeding with the original file, you're losing is impact the copy file may have on the Quicken file which is potentially some compaction and some repair if there is space to be had and if there is a corruption the copy file may correct. 

    In my opinion, a better suggestion would be for the Validate and Repair functionality to be able to perform copy file's compaction and repair.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    I submit the idea that in fact disconnecting of the online service can be thought of yet another "troubleshooting/error detection" part of someone's process and as such is a step forward instead of backwards.

    When problems with data files popup Validate and Repair, and Copy are suggested to try to recover from the problems.

    What is seldom mentioned is that both of these operations can end up with a copy that is more damaged then the original.  In the case of Validate and Repair it is seeking to make the data file "consistent", this can mean removing problem records.  In the case of Copy the reason it sometimes fixes problems is because when Quicken goes to copy a bad record, it may skip it or somehow get luck that it can read/rebuild the needed records.  And as your history with Copy shows Quicken might just find the data file too corrupted and tell you.

    People seem to assume that if a Validate and Repair and/or a Copy goes through the data file is guaranteed to be better than the original, and that just isn't true (mostly it is true, but not 100%).

    Well these days with all the syncing that is done, there is a similar kind of problem that is outside of the data file.  Every data file gets a unique Id.  In the past the only way to get another unique Id was to use File -> New Quicken File....  That unique Id is used to sync data with the Quicken cloud data set.  This "syncing" happens for "some data" even if you don't use Sync to Mobile/Web or Express Web Connect.

    This means that data files are no longer "independent".  If the Quicken Cloud data set gets messed up somehow it can cause problems in the data file especially if one uses copies as if they were "separate data files".

    The disabling of the online services when you create a "copy template" also changes the unique Id.  So this in fact ensures this copy is actually really independent of the original data file.

    So if one is forced to go such a copy then they will actually have the best chance of it being a copy without such problems.
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  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doesn't Super Validate perform the Copy step?

    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • miklk
    miklk SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    fggates

    I sent you a private message that should help
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    mshiggins said:
    Doesn't Super Validate perform the Copy step?

    Not that I have seen.  Copy does a record by record copy.  Since deleted records aren’t copied this results in a smaller data file, and also catches a few kinds of problems Validate doesn’t.  I don’t see the same reduction in data file size with Validate, and like I said it has been shown that doing a Validate and a Copy clears up more problems than Validate alone.
    Signature:
    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
    This is my website: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/
  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think we ought to escalate this. The new Copy mechanism deprives us of useful functionality. I want them to restore the normal record-by-record copy which preserves online connections. Do we have an "idea" posted on this yet?
    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
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