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Can I revert to an earlier version of Quicken Subscription?

badger411

I last changed data in my Quicken file and performed an update on 9/13/2021. When I was online on September 16, an update automatically applied. Since then, I have been unable to use Quicken. I cannot access the backup performed on 9/13/2021, and Support cannot access it either. It is asking for a Data File password, which I never assigned and have never assigned in 17 years of using Quicken. The recover password feature is not working, Support could not access it after a 30-minute wait.

Their answer was that I would have to go back to my previous backup, which was on 9/6/2021. That would mean that I lose an entire week of transactions. I would be unable to reconstruct much of it because I have thrown away the receipts. Some of my business transactions have also been lost. I track categories for my budget, and all of that information would be lost. I'm trying to avoid the 3-4 days it will take to work on my Quicken recovery.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to reverting to the version of Quicken I had on 9/13 and getting rid of the version after the update?

As an aside, does anyone know why EVERY automatic update causes a meltdown in my program? I have taken to updating my data files in 4 different locations (C: drive, OneDrive, Carbonite, Dropbox) in case one of them gets corrupted. I never considered that the Quicken file itself could become corrupted and needed to have back-ups in multiple locations.

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Frankx

Hi @badger411,

You can revert to a Quicken version that is older that the current version by downloading the mondo patch for an older version. A Quicken user has posted older mondo patches at this LINK however since you haven't indicated which version you were using before the update you recently received, you'll need to determine which one to download.

That being said, I am not convinced that the problem you are currently having was caused by the version update, as I have not seen any other reports (nor can I remember any similar posts that may have appeared here) that caused a previously "unlocked" (my phrase for a datafile that doesn't have a password) to become locked simply because it is opened in a different (newer) Quicken version.

I know that your session with Quicken Support didn't go well, but I would suggest that you consider trying to contact Q Support again.

Frankx

Boatnmaniac

badger411 said:

As an aside, does anyone know why EVERY automatic update causes a meltdown in my program? I have taken to updating my data files in 4 different locations (C: drive, OneDrive, Carbonite, Dropbox) in case one of them gets corrupted. I never considered that the Quicken file itself could become corrupted and needed to have back-ups in multiple locations.

A couple of suggestions:

You are updating your data files in 4 different locations? I suggest you stop doing that. Updating data files in cloud accounts is a recipe for file corruption for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that a corruption in one of those files can and very possibly will pass that corruption on to the other data files. Each of those data files (assuming they are copies of the same data file) shares the same Quicken Cloud Account so there is some cross-talk that does occur. If you want to save back up files on some cloud accounts, then that should be safe. But you should only be opening and updating your Quicken data file from a local drive like C.
Change your User Account Control Settings to "Always Notify." This will then cause Windows to notify you when a program (like Quicken) is trying to update and you will then have the opportunity to stop it from updating or to allow it to continue.

mshiggins

Frankx said:

Hi @badger411,

That being said, I am not convinced that the problem you are currently having was caused by the version update, as I have not seen any other reports (nor can I remember any similar posts that may have appeared here) that caused a previously "unlocked" (my phrase for a datafile that doesn't have a password) to become locked simply because it is opened in a different (newer) Quicken version.

Frankx

That is strange. I've been seeing posts about patches causing data files to suddenly have a data file password when there was previously no data file password for several months now.

To the best of my knowledge, the only solution has been to restore successively older backups until you find one that does not have the bogus password.

Frankx

mshiggins said:

That is strange. I've been seeing posts about patches causing data files to suddenly have a data file password when there was previously no data file password for several months now.

Yes, there were posts back in early July after R34.20 was released that referenced a password problem. However R34.24 - which went live on 7/21/21 - fixed that issue (according to this Q Support post LINK.

Since that time, I have seen no reports of this problem.

The OP indicated that he last updated om 9/16/21, which presumably is to R35.31 which is 3 versions hence, which is why I suggested he reconnect with Support.

Frankx

badger411

> @Boatnmaniac said:
> A couple of suggestions:* You are updating your data files in 4 different locations? I suggest you stop doing that. Updating data files in cloud accounts is a recipe for file corruption for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that a corruption in one of those files can and very possibly will pass that corruption on to the other data files. Each of those data files (assuming they are copies of the same data file) shares the same Quicken Cloud Account so there is some cross-talk that does occur. If you want to save back up files on some cloud accounts, then that should be safe. But you should only be opening and updating your Quicken data file from a local drive like C.
>
> * Change your User Account Control Settings to "Always Notify." This will then cause Windows to notify you when a program (like Quicken) is trying to update and you will then have the opportunity to stop it from updating or to allow it to continue.

I am updating in multiple locations because I have experienced in the past that my local backup (and even my Carbonite backup) is overwritten when I am trying to recover data after an automatic Quicken update. It changes the file date to the current date and time, which makes it unusable as a representation of past data. It is a longstanding problem I have had with automatic downloads from Quicken.

badger411

> @Frankx said:
> Hi @badger411,
>
> You can revert to a Quicken version that is older that the current version by downloading the mondo patch for an older version. A Quicken user has posted older mondo patches at this LINK however since you haven't indicated which version you were using before the update you recently received, you'll need to determine which one to download.
>
> That being said, I am not convinced that the problem you are currently having was caused by the version update, as I have not seen any other reports (nor can I remember any similar posts that may have appeared here) that caused a previously "unlocked" (my phrase for a datafile that doesn't have a password) to become locked simply because it is opened in a different (newer) Quicken version.
>
> I know that your session with Quicken Support didn't go well, but I would suggest that you consider trying to contact Q Support again.
>
> Frankx

Support wanted a .QDF file, which I could not immediately provide. All I had was a .QDF-backup file (which is the file extension it was saved under). I have never saved anything with a .QDF file in 17 years as a user. Every time I search for a .QDF file, it creates a new version of whatever is in the .QDF-backup file (I assume) and pushes the file date that much further out from when the data was actually created. So the earliest .QDF file I have for my 9/13/2021 backup is dated 9/16/2021, which is AFTER the automatic update was put in place. I tried downloading the Mondo patches (per your suggestion) for, successively, 35.23 and 34.24 (going backwards when the first one still asked for a data file password), but it still says the data file needs a password, despite NOT being saved with a password. @Frankx stated above that Q Support claimed version 34.24 "fixed" the problem of requesting passwords.

Support said they could not work with a .QDF-backup file. So I don't have anything new to offer them if I were to contact them again. I guess my data is just lost, I spend a week trying to recreate what records I can, call it a loss, and put a block on further automatic updates. What good is paying for a subscription that offers updates that screw up my files EVERY time and cause extra work to recover the lost data but no discernible positives?

mshiggins

Frankx said:

mshiggins said:

That is strange. I've been seeing posts about patches causing data files to suddenly have a data file password when there was previously no data file password for several months now.

Yes, there were posts back in early July after R34.20 was released that referenced a password problem. However R34.24 - which went live on 7/21/21 - fixed that issue (according to this Q Support post LINK.

Since that time, I have seen no reports of this problem.

The OP indicated that he last updated om 9/16/21, which presumably is to R35.31 which is 3 versions hence, which is why I suggested he reconnect with Support.

Frankx

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7898633/my-quicken-suddenly-doesnt-recognize-my-password

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7897551/data-file-locked-with-a-password-the-forgot-password-link-doesnt-work

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7898276/file-password-wasnt-accepted-after-update-to-35-26

Greg_the_Geek

FWIW, there is no difference between a file with the extension of .QDF and .QDF-backup. You can change the extension from .QDF-backup to .QDF and open it in Quicken.

Frankx

Hi @badger411,

@Greg_the_Geek is correct - there is no difference between a *.QDF file and a *.QDF-backup file. They both contain the exact same data - however one is labeled differently from the other. If you edit the filename to remove the "-backup" Quicken will recognize it as a Quicken datafile (not as a backup of a Quicken datafile).

That being said, I understand your frustration both with this particular issue that has you locked out of your most recent Q datafile, and with the most recent "less than helpful" Quicken Support session.

Frankx

Boatnmaniac

badger411 said:

> @Boatnmaniac said:
> A couple of suggestions:* You are updating your data files in 4 different locations? I suggest you stop doing that. Updating data files in cloud accounts is a recipe for file corruption for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that a corruption in one of those files can and very possibly will pass that corruption on to the other data files. Each of those data files (assuming they are copies of the same data file) shares the same Quicken Cloud Account so there is some cross-talk that does occur. If you want to save back up files on some cloud accounts, then that should be safe. But you should only be opening and updating your Quicken data file from a local drive like C.
>
> * Change your User Account Control Settings to "Always Notify." This will then cause Windows to notify you when a program (like Quicken) is trying to update and you will then have the opportunity to stop it from updating or to allow it to continue.

I am updating in multiple locations because I have experienced in the past that my local backup (and even my Carbonite backup) is overwritten when I am trying to recover data after an automatic Quicken update. It changes the file date to the current date and time, which makes it unusable as a representation of past data. It is a longstanding problem I have had with automatic downloads from Quicken.

If your backup files are being overwritten (in reality, replaced and not overwritten) every time you back up then I suspect your Backup Preference settings need to be adjusted. Since your backups are being replaced every time I suspect your current max number of Automatic Backups is set at 1 or you are doing only Manual Backups.:

AUTOMATIC BACKUPS:

Set it to backup every time after running Quicken and select the maximum number of backups to save.
I set mine to backup every time I close the data file and to save the last 30 backup files but you can save up to 99 copies if you wish. Quicken will automatically delete the oldest backup once the max number of backup copies has been exceeded.
You can select where to save the backup files. I select a HDD location and then backup all my data files (for all programs) 2X per week to a thumb drive but this could be done to a separate HDD or to a DVD or to some cloud storage site.
Quicken will add the date/time to the file name with standard backups and when it is backed up because of software update it will also add the previous version to the file name.

MANUAL BACKUP REMINDER:

Some people opt to do manual backups instead of or in addition to the automatic backups.
IMO doing manual backups when also doing automatic backups is overkill if the automatic backups are set up and managed properly.

For reference, following is how my Backup Preferences are set up but everyone needs to decide what is most appropriate for them. I strongly suggest making sure your backup settings are set up appropriately and stop running Quicken in those cloud storage sites (OK for saving backups there but when running Quicken from there it presents a risk to data file integrity which can also end up corrupting every copy of that data file).

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/rf/gbotg03kc4kk.png

badger411

@Boatnmaniac > @Boatnmaniac said:
> If your backup files are being overwritten (in reality, replaced and not
> overwritten) every time you back up then I suspect your Backup
> Preference settings need to be adjusted. Since your backups are being
> replaced every time I suspect your current max number of Automatic
> Backups is set at 1 or you are doing only Manual Backups.:
> AUTOMATIC BACKUPS:
> * Set it to backup every time after running Quicken and select the maximum number of backups to save.
> * I
> set mine to backup every time I close the data file and to save the
> last 30 backup files but you can save up to 99 copies if you wish.
> Quicken will automatically delete the oldest backup once the max number
> of backup copies has been exceeded.
>
> * You can select where
> to save the backup files. I select a HDD location and then backup all
> my data files (for all programs) 2X per week to a thumb drive but this
> could be done to a separate HDD or to a DVD or to some cloud storage site.
>
> * Quicken
> will add the date/time to the file name with standard backups and when
> it is backed up because of software update it will also add the previous
> version to the file name.
>
>
> MANUAL BACKUP REMINDER:* Some people opt to do manual backups instead of or in addition to the automatic backups.
>
> * IMO doing manual backups when also doing automatic backups is overkill if the automatic backups are set up and managed properly.
>
>
> For
> reference, following is how my Backup Preferences are set up but
> everyone needs to decide what is most appropriate for them. I strongly suggest
> making sure your backup settings are set up appropriately and stop running
> Quicken in those cloud storage sites (OK for saving backups there but when running Quicken from there it presents a risk to data file integrity which can also end up corrupting every copy of that data file).

All I know is that after an automatic Quicken update is installed, and I try to load my most recent backup, the file date is changed from the actual time that I saved it to the date and time that I am trying to open it. So my Backup above that I did on 9/13/2021 now has a file date of 9/23/2021 because I tried to open it yesterday. It does that to ALL of my backups that I try to load from my C: drive. That is why I store them in multiple locations, to maximize the chances that I can recover an uncorrupted file. I don't know how else to explain it, and it is probably just my screwed up files that do it. Most of the stuff that happens in my life seems to only happen to me out of all the people on Earth.

badger411

@Greg_the_Geek said:
> FWIW, there is no difference between a file with the extension of .QDF and .QDF-backup. You can change the extension from .QDF-backup to .QDF and open it in Quicken.

Tell that to Support, which INSISTED that it could not work with the .QDF-backup file and gave me no further instructions about what to do. I have no programming experience, so I had no clue, and nobody at support was helping. I almost cancelled my support chat session since it was fairly clear that I wasn't going to get a good outcome. But I stuck around for another 30 minutes and got it confirmed.

Chris_QPW

Just so you know, when you open .QDF-backup file in Quicken it will prompt you for a location to copy it to. If you open a .QDF it opens it in place, which of course means any changes made are to the original file not like where if you had opened a .QDF-backup file where you will be working with a copy. But like the others have said internally they are the same, so you can just renaming them as needed.

badger411

> @Chris_QPW said:
> Just so you know, when you open .QDF-backup file in Quicken it will prompt you for a location to copy it to. If you open a .QDF it opens it in place, which of course means any changes made are to the original file not like where if you had opened a .QDF-backup file where you will be working with a copy. But like the others have said internally they are the same, so you can just renaming them as needed.

I have been using Quicken since 2004. I am a 100% naive, unsophisticated Quicken user. I only know enough to get my personal banking done. Most of it is slipshod at best. I had never even SEEN a .QDF file until Support asked for one on the 17th, let alone opened one for use. It takes me days to weeks to figure things out when updates happen. But I have never been completely locked out of my data until the latest update.

garysmith87

In cases where I need to access a Quicken backup file (which is extremely rare), the process I use is to open Windows Explorer, copy the backup file and paste to my active Quicken data file folder. I then right click and rename it to some UNIQUE name (perhaps DATABU.qdf) and then double click on the filename to open Quicken.

This always leaves that backup file intact, makes sure I'm opening the correct data file (the backup) in Quicken and then I go from there.

After insuring that my data file is back to where I need it, I can then go back to Windows Explorer, delete the original data file (DATA.qdf) and rename DATABU.qdf to DATA.qdf. Then I double click on the DATA.qdf file one last time to open Quicken...and subsequent startups will automatically open the DATA.qdf file. I never empty my Windows Trash until I'm 100% certain that the active file I'm now working with is the one I really need.

Basically, I never open my backup data files. And...I backup my Quicken data file every single day. To multiple locations.

volvogirl

If you've been using Quicken since 2004 you have gone though several conversions. You never knew the data file was xxxx.QDF? Here's a little info on it.

All Quicken versions prior to Quicken 2010 for Windows stored your data in a series of files all sharing the same filename but with different extensions like - .IDX, .QEL, .QPH & .QDF, and all 4 of those files were rolled into a single-file .QDF in starting in 2010.

Using Windows the files are usually in My Documents in the Quicken Data folder. You can search your hard drive for all files ending in .QDF to find where they are stored.

Chris_QPW

volvogirl said:

You can search your hard drive for all files ending in .QDF to find where they are stored.

In the current version of Quicken you can also use File -> Find Quicken Files...
It brings up this dialog:

badger411

> @volvogirl said:
> If you've been using Quicken since 2004 you have gone though several conversions. You never knew the data file was xxxx.QDF? Here's a little info on it.
>
> All Quicken versions prior to Quicken 2010 for Windows stored your data in a series of files all sharing the same filename but with different extensions like - .IDX, .QEL, .QPH & .QDF, and all 4 of those files were rolled into a single-file .QDF in starting in 2010.
> Using Windows the files are usually in My Documents in the Quicken Data folder. You can search your hard drive for all files ending in .QDF to find where they are stored.

I used Quicken 2004 for the majority of 17 years until I was forced to convert my computer to Windows 7, then 8, and, finally, Windows 10 after Windows XP was no longer supported. I don't remember the sequence of events, but I eventually subscribed to Quicken. As far as I knew, it was still saving with those various file extensions until I contacted Support a week ago. As you can see, I am extremely unsophisticated.

Chris_QPW

Just a point of history. Back before Quicken 2010 when they pushed all those different file types into one .QDF (which is actually a compressed file like a Zip file) the backup files were different, because it was a format that took all the different files that made up the "data file" and put them in one file so that it could be easily moved to another machine instead of having to copy the individual files. And BTW if you had used attachments there was a separate Attach folder that held them.

Since Quicken 2010 already has them all in one .QDF it was no longer needed to have a special internal format for the data file.

badger411

> @Chris_QPW said:
> In the current version of Quicken you can also use File -> Find Quicken Files...
> It brings up this dialog:

Finding my most recent files is not the problem. I have them on my Carbonite, Dropbox, OneDrive, and C: drive. After a Quicken automatic subscription update was downloaded last Thursday, my most recent backup won't open because they claim to need a data file password. They were NOT saved with a password. Password recovery link is inactive. Support stated explicitly that they cannot unlock the data file in question after 30 minutes. I have tried to revert to 2 previous Mondo patches, but the file still requires a data file password.

Chris_QPW

badger411 said:

> @Chris_QPW said:
> In the current version of Quicken you can also use File -> Find Quicken Files...
> It brings up this dialog:

Finding my most recent files is not the problem. I have them on my Carbonite, Dropbox, OneDrive, and C: drive. After a Quicken automatic subscription update was downloaded last Thursday, my most recent backup won't open because they claim to need a data file password. They were NOT saved with a password. Password recovery link is inactive. Support stated explicitly that they cannot unlock the data file in question after 30 minutes. I have tried to revert to 2 previous Mondo patches, but the file still requires a data file password.

When a data file gets corrupted to a certain state, if you open it in Quicken and can't it "assumes" that it can't because it is password protected (encrypted data and corrupted data are about the same without the password). So "forever" whenever anyone has reported that they are now being asked for a password when there was never one put on the data file, the first assumption is that it was corrupted. Now if that was this recent bug or some other thing corrupting it, there is no telling if that was it, especially since they said they fixed that bug a few updates ago.

But the result is the same. There isn't any way to "unlock the data", because in fact the data file is corrupted.

badger411

> @Chris_QPW said:
> When a data file gets corrupted to a certain state, if you open it in Quicken and can't it "assumes" that it can't because it is password protected (encrypted data and corrupted data are about the same without the password). So "forever" whenever anyone has reported that they are now being asked for a password when there was never one put on the data file, the first assumption is that it was corrupted. Now if that was this recent bug or some other thing corrupting it, there is no telling if that was it, especially since they said they fixed that bug a few updates ago.
>
> But the result is the same. There isn't any way to "unlock the data", because in fact the data file is corrupted.

So how did all 4 copies of my backup on 4 different platforms ALL become corrupted in exactly the same way? And they all did it at EXACTLY the same time, which was after the Quicken update was made? My computer was idle from Monday 9/13 through Thursday 9/16, nothing was saved or updated to those files in that time. The ONLY possible cause was my STUPID decision to allow the Quicken update to be installed. I should have known better given the horrible track record of updates on my computer. And now it has cost me dearly.

badger411

> @Chris_QPW said:
> When a data file gets corrupted to a certain state, if you open it in Quicken and can't it "assumes" that it can't because it is password protected (encrypted data and corrupted data are about the same without the password). So "forever" whenever anyone has reported that they are now being asked for a password when there was never one put on the data file, the first assumption is that it was corrupted. Now if that was this recent bug or some other thing corrupting it, there is no telling if that was it, especially since they said they fixed that bug a few updates ago.
>
> But the result is the same. There isn't any way to "unlock the data", because in fact the data file is corrupted.

I guess I don't understand how a file that has never been opened after it was created can become so corrupted that it can't be salvaged. And have it done 4 times on 4 different platforms. I have tried to restore the file from both Carbonite and Dropbox and gotten the exact same "data file password required" dialogue box.

Chris_QPW

Well in fact that does sound like the recent bug that some people have experienced. They said they fixed that in a recent update, but maybe not.

badger411

> @Chris_QPW said:
> Well in fact that does sound like the recent bug that some people have experienced. They said they fixed that in a recent update, but maybe not.

And lucky me, I get to lose my records because they can't get their bugs fixed. And there's no way to recover the data now that it is corrupted. And I can't enter some of the category breakdowns anymore because I don't have the receipts anymore. Just great news all around.

garysmith87

Unfortunately, your data file may have have some form of hidden corruption from previous updates many updates ago. That corruption may not have been exhibited until some new update is installed way down the road.

Occasionally (maybe monthly or prior to an update) it may be prudent to run Quicken's Validate and Repair option. While this may not catch every corrupt sector, it may help to weed out some hidden corruption that can linger and then become apparent as time goes on. I found that with extremely old data files...and since yours goes back to Quicken 2004...constant updates and reconfiguring/remapping of the database structure can introduce data corruption in Quicken.

That's another reason for making copious copies of Quicken backups at pre-determined intervals AND keeping them for long periods of time. I keep at least one per month and one every year in addition to my daily backups that I keep for one month.

As to your current backups getting the same error message, if your data file is corrupt...and you make a backup (copy) of that corrupt data file, you just get another corrupt data file. That's why it's imperative to find an "uncorrupted" data file...or reinstall a previous Quicken version that won't exhibit the corruption and is able to open the non-apparent corrupted data file. Then, if you're able to open that file you can VALIDATE AND REPAIR your data file, hopefully flushing out any data corruption that is hidden in your data file. And if errors are found and corrected, you can then cautiously update to the current version.

As to your immediate problem, you're lamenting that you've lost 16 days (or so) of transactions with no way to recoup them or their categories.

So, you're actually telling us that there is no way to access ANY statement of record from your bank, credit card, investment accounts whatsoever to get that info? Whether it's by an online statement or by snail mail, I really find it difficult to believe that there's no "paper trail" whatsoever to get you your info back into Quicken.

Could this be labor intensive? Probably. Manually entering transactions is never a fun task. But in comparison to losing your entire data file and history, its not nearly as painful.

Chris_QPW

Scanning this thread I notice that the original question was never answered/tried.

You can try reverting to a past version of Quicken to see if you can get it to read your backup data files. If it works then maybe you can do a Validate and Repair on those and then get them to work with the most recent version of Quicken.

You can find the patches in either of these places:
https://www.quicken.com/support/reinstalling-and-patching-your-quicken-subscription-version-after-your-membership-has

http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/quicken-subscription-patches.html

badger411

> @garysmith87 said:

> As to your immediate problem, you're lamenting that you've lost 16 days (or so) of transactions with no way to recoup them or their categories.
>
> So, you're actually telling us that there is no way to access ANY statement of record from your bank, credit card, investment accounts whatsoever to get that info? Whether it's by an online statement or by snail mail, I really find it difficult to believe that there's no "paper trail" whatsoever to get you your info back into Quicken.
>
> Could this be labor intensive? Probably. Manually entering transactions is never a fun task. But in comparison to losing your entire data file and history, its not nearly as painful.

Not so that I could categorize my spending, no. I can only do that when I have the physical receipts. And since I don't keep my personal receipts, only my business receipts, I lose them every week on trash day.

badger411

@garysmith87

The main takeaway from all this is that I will stop installing Quicken updates since I can't trust that they won't destroy my files. Because who's to say that the last 10 (or 29) daily backups you have don't become hopelessly corrupted by a future automatic update? Or the last 29 daily plus the last 4 of your monthly backups? It's better to just have a closed system.

I never had problems with Quicken until I stopped using my Quicken 2004. Going back over my old computer files, I was still using it in September 2019, since I still saw files with the 4 different extensions. I only started using the online Quicken because of the mistaken belief that it was going to be a version of the desktop Quicken that was available online with all of the same functionality. Obviously that is not the truth about its purpose. I feel like the money I have spent on my subscription was wasted.