why does Quicken suddenly require access to my Schwab accounts?

jayne3b

I object

splasher

Schwab changed the way (to save money, they say for security) to Express Web Connect+.  Previously, the downloads went directly from Schwab to your computer.  EWC+ method uses an aggregation service (Intuit) to collect the data on a nightly basis and then Quicken gets the information from the aggregation service.

The aggregation service is the third party you have to approve.

See this article for a more detailed description of the download methods: https://www.quicken.com/support/how-quicken-connects-your-bank

EWC+ is a new variant of the Express Web Connect that is described in the article, but the concept is the same.

Tom Young

Well, normally the ability to download information from brokers and others is one of the great benefits of Quicken but it sounds like you want to run your Schwab Accounts manually, which certainly is your choice.

If you originally were running your Quicken Schwab Accounts manually then the only answer I can think of for the "suddenly" part of your question is that you somehow converted them to downloading, maybe by accident?

There's no problem reverting the Accounts back to manual mode: Open the Account List (Tools > Account List) and edit each Account by clicking on the Online Services tab and then clicking on Deactivate.

jayne3b

Who said anything about running manually? NO WAY. The question is why is Schwab asking me to give account access to third party i.e. Quicken? Why are transactions no longer available to download from Schwab to Quicken? Why has the process changed. I've been using for YEARS without incident until recently. Now there's a problem every frigging day. Several additional questions come up like what security does Quicken offer? Who in their right mind would permit access without adequate knowledge of security and a direct contract with QUICKEN regarding access. This is just common sense.
MAY I DOWNLOAD DIRECTLY FROM MY FINANCIAL INSTITUTION AS I HAVE FOR YEARS. IF NOT, WHY? AND WHERE IS THE QUICKEN CONTRACT LISTING RESPONSIBILITIES/LIABILITY? IS THIS REQUIRED FOR ALL FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS? ARE THERE BROKERS WITH DIRECT DOWNLOAD AVAILABLE? ETC, ETC.

jayne3b

Let's start at the beginning. Maybe I did not know that transactions have always been downloaded to Quicken and not directly to me. Or to both Quicken and me. Please advise.

splasher

Schwab changed the way (to save money, they say for security) to Express Web Connect+.  Previously, the downloads went directly from Schwab to your computer.  EWC+ method uses an aggregation service (Intuit) to collect the data on a nightly basis and then Quicken gets the information from the aggregation service.

The aggregation service is the third party you have to approve.

See this article for a more detailed description of the download methods: https://www.quicken.com/support/how-quicken-connects-your-bank

EWC+ is a new variant of the Express Web Connect that is described in the article, but the concept is the same.

jayne3b

Thank you. Very helpful. Will be complicated, but I'll switch banks. As you are certainly aware, this connection is to all Schwab accounts, including my four brokerage plus the bank acct. I don't see anything in the Quicken info referenced that refers to brokerage accounts. Wish the brokerage downloaded separately. Having all these accounts at Schwab makes things that much more complicated. I do not particularly care for the authority allowed Quicken by the Schwab agreement.
Also to note, when I initially changed to new set up my entire checking account was erased. I reverted to backup and expect to enter manually until I am satisfied with this whole thing. And, of course, upon finding that the account will not be erased. Transactions at a point took days to download recently, the program crashes a lot and literally freaks out shaking periodically. Messy situation and complicated. I have never manually entered transactions - with exception of recently purchased Ibonds. Defeats program purpose. Oh well, not the first time I'll have spent hours/days on Quicken issues. Thanks again.
While I'm noting things: I would greatly appreciate it if no balance sheet items were erased for, say, four years or another specified # of years, including 0.00 balance accounts. Three to five years for income statement items is preferred. I have to use saved spreadsheets to compare years now. Another change since new management arrived.
Thanks again and happy holidays. No further response is expected.

Chris_QPW

jayne3b said:

IS THIS REQUIRED FOR ALL FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS? ARE THERE BROKERS WITH DIRECT DOWNLOAD AVAILABLE? ETC, ETC.

This question never got answered.  In fact, it is very rare that investment account downloading is using Express Web Connect/aggregation and not Direct connect.  Charles Schwab is only the 4th financial institution to use it.

Note this isn't true for non-investment accounts, for them it is much more common that they are using Express Web Connect.  About 2,500 financial institutions out of about 15,000 supports Direct Connect.

mcFly

> @jayne3b said:
> I object

I also object—strongly

I object to Quicken/Schwab’s attempt to force me to use Express Web Connect.

I have been using DIRECT CONNECT downloads happily for years and years. The DIRECT CONNECT method securely downloads my sensitive, none-of-anyone’s-business financial data—my life savings—which I share with no one. Quicken’s Password Vault is stored within the Quicken data file (the .QDF file) that resides safely on MY COMPUTER. Using Quicken’s One Step Update button, I was *formerly* able to initiate a “DIRECT CONNECT” data link with my various banks, brokerages, and other financial institutions.

In fact, DIRECT CONNECT still works with all but Charles Schwab. My latest transactions were then placed into my accounts for review and acceptance into the register. This has worked just fine all these years. Now Quicken and, apparently, Schwab wants me to share my precious financial data along with my login credentials with various folks who do business with Quicken.

Sharing your login credentials violates the strongly-worded advice of the Terms Of Service of practically any online account you might open. “Never share your password with anyone!” say the agreements.

Other banks and brokerages use DIRECT CONNECT.
Other accounts I have at banks and brokerages allow me to use DIRECT CONNECT to download data. Vanguard, US Bank, Chase, and USAA use the well-known DIRECT CONNECT method.

Quicken’s Express Web Connect requires you to sign away rights to your account data so that Quicken may share that data. And your USER-ID and PASSWORD are stored with Quicken’s aggregation partner, not one actually *chosen* by you.

I am livid that Quicken asks me to agree to this after flashing up a form that I am supposed to click and be on my merry way. The form will trigger a string of more unanswered questions. The words “aggregator” or “aggregation” appear 23 times in this short “Consent” document. Quicken must give examples of who these aggregators might be. In particular, which “aggregator” is it that stores our login credentials?

Still, I won’t give away rights to my precious account data to various unknown third-party aggregators, none of whom I have consciously chosen to be “my data aggregators.”

I didn’t sign that “Informed Consent” document Quicken has presented at me when I tried to reestablish the DIRECT CONNECT at Schwab. All Quicken users with Schwab accounts must have seen it by now. The document’s name: “Instruction and Informed Consent to Allow Quicken to Access Your Account Information.”
See https://www.schwab.com/legal/third-party-terms

It’s not a long document but contains some frightening things you must agree to—if you want to download Schwab data with your Quicken program:
• “…to allow third-party financial applications (‘apps’) or programs (each an ‘Aggregator’) that you designate to access your Schwab account information and your account information with the aggregator, (the ‘Account Information’).”
• “For each brokerage, loan, line of credit, and/or deposit account that you instruct us to link to an Aggregator, you are authorizing Schwab to allow that Aggregator access to your Account Information including the following categories: account descriptors, holdings, balances, transaction history (such as buys, sells, journals, dividends, commissions and fees, payments, interest, ATM Activity, adjustments, deposits, withdrawals, transfers, checks, taxes, and corporate actions), AND OTHER account details.”
• “Some Risks of Aggregation. Once your authorized Aggregator has accessed your Account Information, we cannot retrieve it for you, and we are no longer responsible for how the Account Information is secured or used (including whether it is shared with other parties, or used in an unauthorized manner or for an improper purpose).”

Yikes! I will never agree to this!
The wording in the document makes it sound like I’ve *already* chosen an “aggregator” through my voluntary use of one or more downloaded apps. I do not use third-party financial tools. The only “app” that I have chosen is QUICKEN, no others.

I’ll assume I’ve lost access to DIRECT CONNECT for Schwab accounts. What next?
How then can I download financial data for upload into Quicken? I clearly recall being able to log into Schwab and download transactions in .QIF file format, which I then “import” into Quicken. It’s manual and takes a bit of time but I’m willing if I’m going to lose access to DIRECT CONNECT from Schwab.
But now I can’t find the transaction downloads in my accounts at Schwab.

I’m bewildered at Quicken’s taking away my DIRECT CONNECT access to my Schwab accounts.
But I will never agree to Quicken’s Express Web Connect odious terms.

I want DIRECT CONNECT back!

splasher

mcFly said:

…

I object to Quicken/Schwab’s attempt to force me to use Express Web Connect.

…

I want DIRECT CONNECT back!

Quicken had nothing to do with this.  Schwab decided they wanted to save money under the pretense of increased security.  Intuit is the company that gets the fees from the financial institution and does the data aggregation.  Quicken PAYS Intuit to provide the aggregation service.

I agree with you about Direct Connect though, I personally only use Direct Connect and Web Connect.

Since Schwab probably won't be changing their mind, your only choice would seem to be to dump Schwab making sure that their upper management knows why you are dumping them.

Tom Young

Yeah, your high dudgeon is pretty much misplaced.  This is all Schwab's fault and since Quicken knows that most users are going to take the path of least resistance and not leave Schwab they made the decision that they were going to do the work to allow Quicken to continue to download from Schwab.

The transition certainly wasn't as smooth as it might have been and maybe Quicken screwed the pooch on that, but they were either go along with Schwab or drop Schwab as an FI that can download into Quicken.  A pretty simply business decision, in my opinion.

Come back and tell us you've moved your Schwab accounts and told Schwab exactly why you've done so.

I expect that when other brokers figure out that Schwab pulled off the switcheroo - saving money along the way - that other brokers are going to make the same move.

jayne3b

We need security/liability comittment from Quicken Inc. Where is the Quicken Inc. data security responsibility commitment customer service agreement? Does it exist? All of this becomes so time consuming.

mcFly

> @splasher said:
> Quicken had nothing to do with this.  ...
>

Thank you for this clarification. I wasn't sure who was driving this change but now that I know it's Schwab, I'll contact their upper management about why I'm leaving (I had contacted the help-desk folks but they didn't seem too interested). And now I see that Intuit is the aggregation service. This helps me.

> @"Tom Young" said:
> ...most users are going to take the path of least resistance and not leave Schwab ...
>The transition certainly wasn't as smooth as it might have been ... 
> Come back and tell us you've moved your Schwab accounts and told Schwab exactly why you've done so.
> I expect that when other brokers figure out that Schwab pulled off the switcheroo - saving money along the way - that other brokers are going to make the same move.

Now that I better understand what is going on between Schwab and Quicken I can make more informed decisions. Leaving Schwab seems to be the ideal choice. That'll take some effort but I see no other option. I will come back to report. Who I contact at Schwab, I have yet to determine. Maybe I start from the top, down, cc'ing down the chain of command. Schwab can definitely afford to lose me--I'm not a $1B retirement fund, just an individual investor. But maybe I'm one of dozens or hundreds who see their security and privacy being eroded and we collectively might show Schwab that some of us are paying attention.

Thanks to both of you for your immediate and very helpful feedback.

K Shaw

Another unhappy customer. Unhappy with Schwab for making this change. I've just sent a note to my broker.

And unhappy with Quicken for not having anticipated what would happen when this change occurred. Its duplicated all my Schwab accounts with different names and no account history in the new ones. I can't decide how best to fix it without losing years of account history. I've applied the patch, but not before the damage was done.