How do I add an existing loan account to lifetime planning assumptions?

Jay Gourley

When I try add a loan to my lifetime planning assumption, Quick goes to the routine for creating a new online account. Is there a way to add an existing loan account that already has a history and is set to update online?

Scooterlam

Okay,  I see that a HELoC is assigned as Account type: Credit in Quicken.   Since it is a HELoC and NOT a Home Equity Loan, then you can explore a few alternative ways to model that expense in LTP.   

With any of these alternatives, you will need to ensure that changes in the expense amount and years that that expense are updated in LTP periodically.   That is, when you take additional draws, interest rate changes, term changes, make larger or smaller payment et al.

After you add/update, inspect LTPs Plan result tables for the appropriate expense amount and term are represented correctly.

1.  Use Debt Reduction Planner (DRP), in the Planning tab.  Setup a DRP for the HELoC, then go to Lifetime Planner (LTP) and include your DRP in your LTP plan.  Find this option under LTP Assumptions dialog.  In LTP, Plan Result table, find these expenses under Debt Payments line.

Note: some users have reported not being able to "turn-on" their DRP in LTP and there is also a known issue that accelerated DRP dates (when using what if planning) are not modeled correctly in LTP.  More information about these issues here and here.  May or may not be an issue for you.

I'm not a DRP user but I did notice in my testing that if you take additional draws from the HELoC or make payments, your DRP payment and payoff dates and therefore your LTP plan will not update automatically unless you create a new DRP plan reflecting the new payment and subsequent payoff date.  A new DRP plan...meaning remove the HELoC from the existing plan and re-add it....Once this is done, LTP should reflect the new yearly payment and payoff date associated with the be balance.

2.  Use Special Expenses dialog in LTP.   If you are paying back in periodic yearly payments (or can otherwise estimate a yearly periodic amount), you can insert your P/I expense and the timeframe and model it here.  Of course, you will need to update the amount and timeframe as you take additional draws or make additional or extra payments.  In LTP, Plan Result table,  find these expenses under Special Expenses line.

3.  Use Adjustment to Living Expenses dialog in LTP:  Similar in approach to #2 but has perhaps less controls. Adjustments can be made for discreet time periods.  Update as necessary.  In LTP, Plan Result table,  find these expenses under Adjustments to Living Expenses line.

4.   Use Expenses button and dialog in the Current Homes and Assets dialog in LTP.  There is a section for expenses associated with your home asset. Of course you need to include your home as an asset in LTP and to do that your home needs to have its own account in Quicken.  Note:  when you sell that home and you still have a HELOC payment modelled as an expense, LTP will stop those HELOC expenses rather than show a HELOC balance payoff from home sale proceeds...Perhaps modelling the HELOC as a manual Loan is convenient if you have a future home sale planned, as @Sherlock described.  YMMV based on how you use the HELOC.

Note that LTP does not care about past history of the HELOC (you do), but generally just the expected yearly expense and given years going forward.  So if there it isn't a periodic payment, you will need to make it so otherwise stitch together separate time-delineated entries described in 2,3,4....PIA....if it really matters....

So there are a few additional options if you are carrying a balance and making payments.   

Sherlock

Existing loan accounts should appear in the Quicken Planner: Loan & Debts window: open the Lifetime Planner view and select Loans and Debt in the Plan Assumptions region.  To include a loan, select the loan, uncheck Exclude from plan, and select Done.

Note: If online loan accounts do not appear, I suggest using offline loan accounts instead.  You may want to review: https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7164936/faq-how-do-i-convert-a-loan-account-that-automatically-downloads-transactions-to-a-manual-entry-sc  

Jay Gourley

Except they don't apper in my Quicken. I'd attach screenshots if I could. But if I go to Planning> Lifetime Planner > Plan Assumptions: Loans and Debt, then the only choices that are offfered are to create a new online account, create a new offline account, add a loan that is associated with some asset. An existing "liability" account is not an option, nor do I see a way to add it to the planner.

Scooterlam

Jay Gourley said:

Except they don't apper in my Quicken. I'd attach screenshots if I could. But if I go to Planning> Lifetime Planner > Plan Assumptions: Loans and Debt, then the only choices that are offfered are to create a new online account, create a new offline account, add a loan that is associated with some asset. An existing "liability" account is not an option, nor do I see a way to add it to the planner.

When you go to the existing "liability" account that does not appear in LTP, what do you see in Account Details dialog, under Account type: ?   Is the Account Type a Loan or a Liability?  Ref. Image.

To see Account Details, right-click on the account name in the account bar and select edit/delete account.



Is the Loan your reference associated with an asset?  Ref. Image.



Does it happen to show here when you click on Homes and Assets>Loans button?

Jay Gourley

If I go to the accounts page, it's shown as a "Credit" account.

Sherlock

Jay Gourley said:

If I go to the accounts page, it's shown as a "Credit" account.

I suggest you convert the online loan into an offline loan account.  You may want to review: https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7164936/faq-how-do-i-convert-a-loan-account-that-automatically-downloads-transactions-to-a-manual-entry-sc  

Scooterlam

So this is a loan that was setup in Quicken as a credit account,  That is Account type: Credit?  Is it a credit card?  If not, I'm curious... what type of loan is it and why was it setup as "credit"?  Perhaps there is a workaround.

In the LTP assumption section you mention, you will only see Account type: Loans.

Chris_QPW

Scooterlam said:

So this is a loan that was setup in Quicken as a credit account,  That is Account type: Credit?  Is it a credit card?  If not, I'm curious... what type of loan is it and why was it setup as "credit"?  Perhaps there is a workaround.

In the LTP assumption section you mention, you will only see Account type: Loans.

Jay Gourley said:

If I go to the accounts page, it's shown as a "Credit" account.

Non "periodic loans" like equity loans and auto loans when setup for downloading is set to be credit card types because that is the closest type Quicken had/has that don't follow it schedule that it can understand.  In the case of equity loans, you can add more funds.  In the case of auto loans, they can have daily interest rates that without knowing exactly what day a payment goes through can't be predicted.

When Intuit decided to support downloading of loan accounts, they did it in a way to solve two problems.  The downloading and the fact that the loan schedule wizard couldn't handle all the different kinds of loans the loan companies could come up with.  By having the loan company supply all the details and hiding the register so that the user can't muck with it, they bypassed that second problem.

Personally, I think the use of downloading of loan transactions where you are only getting one monthly transaction filled in, and where most of it was already handled by a split transaction in the checking account, causes more trouble than it is worth.  Sticking with an offline loan account is best.

Jay Gourley

To answer Scooterlam's question, the loan in question is a home equity line of credit.

Scooterlam

Okay,  I see that a HELoC is assigned as Account type: Credit in Quicken.   Since it is a HELoC and NOT a Home Equity Loan, then you can explore a few alternative ways to model that expense in LTP.   

With any of these alternatives, you will need to ensure that changes in the expense amount and years that that expense are updated in LTP periodically.   That is, when you take additional draws, interest rate changes, term changes, make larger or smaller payment et al.

After you add/update, inspect LTPs Plan result tables for the appropriate expense amount and term are represented correctly.

1.  Use Debt Reduction Planner (DRP), in the Planning tab.  Setup a DRP for the HELoC, then go to Lifetime Planner (LTP) and include your DRP in your LTP plan.  Find this option under LTP Assumptions dialog.  In LTP, Plan Result table, find these expenses under Debt Payments line.

Note: some users have reported not being able to "turn-on" their DRP in LTP and there is also a known issue that accelerated DRP dates (when using what if planning) are not modeled correctly in LTP.  More information about these issues here and here.  May or may not be an issue for you.

I'm not a DRP user but I did notice in my testing that if you take additional draws from the HELoC or make payments, your DRP payment and payoff dates and therefore your LTP plan will not update automatically unless you create a new DRP plan reflecting the new payment and subsequent payoff date.  A new DRP plan...meaning remove the HELoC from the existing plan and re-add it....Once this is done, LTP should reflect the new yearly payment and payoff date associated with the be balance.

2.  Use Special Expenses dialog in LTP.   If you are paying back in periodic yearly payments (or can otherwise estimate a yearly periodic amount), you can insert your P/I expense and the timeframe and model it here.  Of course, you will need to update the amount and timeframe as you take additional draws or make additional or extra payments.  In LTP, Plan Result table,  find these expenses under Special Expenses line.

3.  Use Adjustment to Living Expenses dialog in LTP:  Similar in approach to #2 but has perhaps less controls. Adjustments can be made for discreet time periods.  Update as necessary.  In LTP, Plan Result table,  find these expenses under Adjustments to Living Expenses line.

4.   Use Expenses button and dialog in the Current Homes and Assets dialog in LTP.  There is a section for expenses associated with your home asset. Of course you need to include your home as an asset in LTP and to do that your home needs to have its own account in Quicken.  Note:  when you sell that home and you still have a HELOC payment modelled as an expense, LTP will stop those HELOC expenses rather than show a HELOC balance payoff from home sale proceeds...Perhaps modelling the HELOC as a manual Loan is convenient if you have a future home sale planned, as @Sherlock described.  YMMV based on how you use the HELOC.

Note that LTP does not care about past history of the HELOC (you do), but generally just the expected yearly expense and given years going forward.  So if there it isn't a periodic payment, you will need to make it so otherwise stitch together separate time-delineated entries described in 2,3,4....PIA....if it really matters....

So there are a few additional options if you are carrying a balance and making payments.   

Jay Gourley

Thanks, Scooterlam. When I asked, I as hoping those workarounds wound not be necessary. But they are all useful soutions.