Downloads and Cloud Issue - MacOS 12.0.1 Qv 6.5.1

john2018
john2018 Member ✭✭✭
Starting 1/1/2022 - When I try to download / update online accounts, I had to open a new cloud account. When I did, it changed accounts that didn't have the passwords updated before I had a chance to do anything. I get the orange ball next to the account, but the value have changed. Specifically it added a bunch of transactions over the course of years in a few accounts. (Moved from checking to a credit card, then to another credit card) Mostly transferring funds between a few accounts. Some had offsetting values, but some changed the current totals. These show up as unreconciled and past reconcile errors that didnt exist before the update.... I'd like to reset my cloud accounts, but it won't let me until after I've opened a new account and that then screws up my file.
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  • Quicken Jared
    Quicken Jared Moderator mod
    john2018 said:
    Starting 1/1/2022 - When I try to download / update online accounts, I had to open a new cloud account. When I did, it changed accounts that didn't have the passwords updated before I had a chance to do anything. I get the orange ball next to the account, but the value have changed. Specifically it added a bunch of transactions over the course of years in a few accounts. (Moved from checking to a credit card, then to another credit card) Mostly transferring funds between a few accounts. Some had offsetting values, but some changed the current totals. These show up as unreconciled and past reconcile errors that didnt exist before the update.... I'd like to reset my cloud accounts, but it won't let me until after I've opened a new account and that then screws up my file.
    Hello @john2018,

    I know that update and transaction history issues can be distressing, and I appreciate that you took the time to bring this issue before the Quicken Community. When you say that funds are being transferred between accounts, do you mean that transactions are being downloaded into incorrect ones, as of New Year's Day?

    Thanks,

    Quicken Jared 
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes - transactions were showing up in multiple accounts. These transactions didn't exist and went as far back as 2018. I could find them relatively easy since they showed up as unreconciled transactions. It took us 2:12 last night hours and 2:46 this morning, but support was more patient than me. Tried opening from multiple backups, created test files, exported to .qxf(Win format), then reimported, cleared all cloud accounts, disconnected everything from cloud, stopped sync - at this point the elevated support was able to change something in the cloud account and I started from last decent backup 12/31. Once everything was reconnected it seems to be working. Lots of backups and keeping my fingers crossed.
  • Quicken Jared
    Quicken Jared Moderator mod
    john2018 said:
    Yes - transactions were showing up in multiple accounts. These transactions didn't exist and went as far back as 2018. I could find them relatively easy since they showed up as unreconciled transactions. It took us 2:12 last night hours and 2:46 this morning, but support was more patient than me. Tried opening from multiple backups, created test files, exported to .qxf(Win format), then reimported, cleared all cloud accounts, disconnected everything from cloud, stopped sync - at this point the elevated support was able to change something in the cloud account and I started from last decent backup 12/31. Once everything was reconnected it seems to be working. Lots of backups and keeping my fingers crossed.
    @john2018,

    Thanks again for checking back in to keep us posted on any new developments. I am glad to hear that the situation appears to have been resolved, but feel free to come back any time and ask us about any additional issues.

    Thanks,

    Quicken Jared 
  • Gsut
    Gsut Member ✭✭
    I am having this exact same issue as john2018 with Quicken Mac 6.5.1 running on OS 12.1. I synced my accounts and all of the balances were wrong. I was able to comb through the different accounts and found that going back to as far as 2017 that there were transfers going from one credit card to another credit card, transfers from my Money Market to Checking being found inside one of the credit card accounts--stuff that made absolutely no sense.
    I was able to fix it by going through each account and figuring out where the transfer should have actually gone (with help from old statements from my bank and credit cards). I also was able to find the incorrect transactions because they showed up as unreconciled transactions in the credit card account (just like john2018 experienced).

    After 4+ hours, I was able to finally get everything correct, but then I did a 'sync' of one of the accounts and everything went back to being mixed up. 2+ hours later, I fixed it again and then backed it up.
    Thinking it could be an issue with the Quicken cloud sync, I went to Preferences to turn off the cloud sync. I chose "Take File Offline" (see Screenshot) and once it was done, the entries were all mixed up again and the balances were (of course) wrong.
    I was able to restore from a backup, but if I try to sync transactions, it's going to mix everything up again.

    Other people have been having the same problems with Quicken Mac 6.5.1 (see this thread: https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7904687/all-account-balances-completely-messed-up-today-discrepancy-going-back-years )

    As of right now, I can't even use Quicken because I'm concerned about this happening again. My Quicken file goes all the way back to 1995, and I don't want to lose it.

    I could use some help--do I need to call during the day sometime to speak to support to have this fixed?
  • Quicken Jared
    Quicken Jared Moderator mod
    Gsut said:
    I am having this exact same issue as john2018 with Quicken Mac 6.5.1 running on OS 12.1. I synced my accounts and all of the balances were wrong. I was able to comb through the different accounts and found that going back to as far as 2017 that there were transfers going from one credit card to another credit card, transfers from my Money Market to Checking being found inside one of the credit card accounts--stuff that made absolutely no sense.
    I was able to fix it by going through each account and figuring out where the transfer should have actually gone (with help from old statements from my bank and credit cards). I also was able to find the incorrect transactions because they showed up as unreconciled transactions in the credit card account (just like john2018 experienced).

    After 4+ hours, I was able to finally get everything correct, but then I did a 'sync' of one of the accounts and everything went back to being mixed up. 2+ hours later, I fixed it again and then backed it up.
    Thinking it could be an issue with the Quicken cloud sync, I went to Preferences to turn off the cloud sync. I chose "Take File Offline" (see Screenshot) and once it was done, the entries were all mixed up again and the balances were (of course) wrong.
    I was able to restore from a backup, but if I try to sync transactions, it's going to mix everything up again.

    Other people have been having the same problems with Quicken Mac 6.5.1 (see this thread: https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7904687/all-account-balances-completely-messed-up-today-discrepancy-going-back-years )

    As of right now, I can't even use Quicken because I'm concerned about this happening again. My Quicken file goes all the way back to 1995, and I don't want to lose it.

    I could use some help--do I need to call during the day sometime to speak to support to have this fixed?
    Hello @Gsut

    I am so sorry that you are being affected by this issue, as well. I thank you for taking the time to reach out to the Quicken Community for further discussion and support, as well as for contributing to this thread.

    In this case, we would best be able to assist you via phone support. I recommend contacting them via the link supplied here:

    https://www.quicken.com/support#contact-support

    They can be contacted anytime between 5 am PST to 5 pm PST.

    I hope this is helpful. Feel free to get in touch with the Quicken Community any time in the future with any further questions or concerns.

    Thank you,

    Quicken Jared
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    Gust Call support and ask to have it elevated. The person I worked with had to call Engineers? And we spent a couple of hours with screen shots and downloads, but they had to do a deeper clearing of the cloud account than a normal call responder could do. Maybe have them refer to my call history? It’s been working fine since then
  • Gsut
    Gsut Member ✭✭
    Unfortunately I don't have a weekday off of work for several weeks, so I can't call support for a while.
    It does seem to be an issue with the Quicken Cloud account.

    I tried the following, but it didn't fix things:
    I created a new Dummy Quicken account so that I could delete all of the Quicken Cloud files for my actual account. After doing this, I went back to my real Quicken account and turned on Cloud services--it set up a new Quicken Cloud account, but once it was done with the 'set up', I had all of the mixed up entries back into my desktop Quicken file.
    It's as if there is still a Quicken Cloud file existing (even though I deleted my Quicken cloud account) that is then syncing with my file when I set up the Quicken Cloud.

    I was really hoping this would work so I wouldn't have to wait for a day when I could call support.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    Can one of the moderators offer a comment or explanation about what has been described here (and elsewhere) by several people?

    If someone creates a new blank file, goes to Connected Services and deletes all other Cloud files, then goes back to their real file and turns on Sync, my understanding is that it would only be recreating a new cloud file with transactions from the desktop file. How is it possible for their former entries to populate the desktop file? If the Cloud file was deleted, how could anything come in from the Cloud? Is @john2018 correct in saying that there is some "deeper cleaning of the cloud account" which needs to be performed by an upper-level Support representative? Just trying to understand how this works for @Gsut and others who run into this type of problem. Thank you.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Gsut
    Gsut Member ✭✭
    And....the update Quicken Mac 6.5.3 did NOT fix this issue.
    I can't even download QFX files from my credit union and manually load them into Quicken--when I try to do this, it tries to make a cloud account.
    So frustrating--I wish Quicken would give me a credit on my account for all this time I can't use their program because it's broken (like my internet company does when the cable goes out). :/
  • jacobs said:
    Can one of the moderators offer a comment or explanation about what has been described here (and elsewhere) by several people?

    If someone creates a new blank file, goes to Connected Services and deletes all other Cloud files, then goes back to their real file and turns on Sync, my understanding is that it would only be recreating a new cloud file with transactions from the desktop file. How is it possible for their former entries to populate the desktop file? If the Cloud file was deleted, how could anything come in from the Cloud? Is @john2018 correct in saying that there is some "deeper cleaning of the cloud account" which needs to be performed by an upper-level Support representative? Just trying to understand how this works for @Gsut and others who run into this type of problem. Thank you.
    @jacobs,   

    Thank you for seeking further clarification.

    Under ordinary circumstances, previous entries should not be appearing in the desktop file after the cloud has been cleared. This definitely sounds like an unusual scenario. I cannot speak to the exact solution decided upon by the support teams, but this does sound like something that would require phone support, and would be difficult to analyze over text. We are looking into this matter.

    Thank you all for your informative responses and for following up about this,

    Quicken Jared 
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    @Quicken Jared Thank you for responding, but your reply doesn't address what I was asking about. What I wanted to know is whether once a user deletes the Quicken Cloud file associated with their desktop data file, is there any transaction data remaining in Quicken's online datasets — data which could later flow from the Cloud to a user's data file?

    Multiple people have described here and in another thread that they deleted the Cloud file associated with their data file, yet after restoring a backup data file, some of their transactions where changed by Quicken, seemingly from Quicken Cloud. If the Cloud file associated with the data file was deleted, this would seem to be impossible, right?  

    I do know Quicken has been migrating users from the FDS to the FDP aggregation service, so could that have something to do with what's described in these threads? It seems an unlikely coincidence to have affected multiple people at different times, and to persist through multiple attempts to remove faulty Cloud data accounts, but I don't know enough about that migration process to understand if it could be involved here or not. 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Gsut
    Gsut Member ✭✭
    *UPDATE*--I was able to find time this week to contact phone support. The IT person helping me (I didn't get his name, but he was in Idaho) had thankfully JUST helped the previous customer with the same issue-so that saved a TON of time explaining the problem. My file is pretty large (going back to 1995), so it took about an hour on the phone to fix it--most of this time was waiting for my file to export/import, etc.

    What I found about what is going on:
    1) It seems to be an issue if you have more than one version of your Quicken file on your computer (not backups--actual multiple versions of the same file). I had several versions of my file saved under different names on my computer.
    2) The 'mixed up files' seem to occur when you sync after force quitting Quicken (I recall that before this issue started, I did have a problem when syncing--it got stuck; I then did a Force Quit, and it was after this that I had the problems with the mixed up entries). Not sure if others with this problem recall doing a Force Quit or not before their issues started, but that may be a trigger.

    The Fix--(I didn't write down ALL of the instructions in detail, so DON'T FOLLOW THIS if you're trying to fix things, but this is just the gist of the fix): It's best to have the Quicken IT support lead you through the steps in detail.
    --load the Quicken file that DOESN'T have the mixed-up entries into Quicken (this may be from a backup).
    --Export this file onto the desktop as a Quicken transfer file (QXF)
    --in Quicken, go to File-->'Show <your quicken file name> in Finder
    --Delete all of those Quicken files from the computer
    --In Quicken, go to Preferences-->Connected Services and delete the cloud accounts
    --In Quicken, open a new account from scratch
    --Import the QXF "Quicken Windows file' that you saved onto the desktop (this is the file you exported as a Quicken transfer file)

    Interestingly, they didn't have to delete anything special in the cloud like they did for John2018 for this to work.

    Following all of this--it worked, with a couple of caveats:
    --The imported QXF file had MANY entries in the investment accounts (and some of the bank accounts) that were re-Typed "Miscellaneous"--most of these were transfers between accounts (e.g. from my bank account to the investment account). I had to manually change each of these to 'Payment/deposit' (or whatever Type was appropriate) as I couldn't change these entries using a bulk 'Edit transaction' workflow. I could identify these entries by doing a search for 'Misc' in each account and once I figured out what to do, it was easy to fix, just tedious as there were a lot of these entries (some going back to the early 2000s).

    --After I had everything fixed, I decided to re-name my Quicken file. After renaming it, I did a 'one-step update' and all of the mixed up files were back again! Luckily I had saved a backup. I restored from the last good backup, went back into the folder where the Quicken files are stored (there were 2 'extra' Quicken files there--probably from the re-naming of the file and from the initial import?). Anyway, I deleted those 2 extra files, went to the cloud and removed the cloud Quicken accounts, reconnected my accounts, and then tried a one-step update and now it seems to work fine. I'm NOT going to re-name the file again!

    I'm also saving backups after almost every change I make so that I can restore easily if something happens.

    The IT person I spoke to said that he has helped around 5 people with this issue.
    Unclear if it's an issue with this version of the Quicken for Mac software triggering the mixed up files in the case of a "force quit" situation or what.

    I would suggest that if you have this problem, contact Quicken phone support and hopefully you'll get the same guy I did. He did say that they take care of everyone in the queue, so even if you call close to the end of their help hours, they should be able to get to your call and (hopefully) lead you through the fix. I was on hold for about 45 minutes before the IT person picked up (I called on a Friday 1 hour before the end of their 'help' hours) but it was worth the wait since he was able to lead me through the fix.

    Hope this helps.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    @Gsut So glad to hear you got everything recovered and into a stable state.

    For others who may be reading this thread, I think there are some step in what you posted which should be unnecessary. For instance, it isn't necessary to delete older versions of Quicken data files from your desktop. As long as you don't open them, they're completely inert; they don't interact with the Quicken Cloud, not any other data files. Deleting old data files may be useful for avoiding confusion and accidentally opening the wrong one, but shouldn't otherwise affect anything. The key is disabling sync, going to another (perps temporary) file to delete all the Cloud files, opening the data file again, turning off sync, and allowing it to create a new Quicken Cloud file. Unless you really, really need to utilize the mobile app or web interface, leave Sync turned off, so there's nothing being uploaded to the Cloud which can overwrite your local data. If you do need to use Sync, it seems to be important to force a manual Sync after you've made any edits/additions to transactions, before quitting Quicken. 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Gsut
    Gsut Member ✭✭
    I asked about the need to delete the other files when I was on the phone with IT--I was told that the other files on my computer (inside the same folder as the Quicken file I wanted to use) WAS the issue--somehow it was accessing the other files on my computer and getting confused.

    I know it sounds strange, but before calling IT, I tried what jacobs said to do (disabled sync, made a 'troubleshooting' Quicken file that was blank, used the troubleshooting file so I could delete all the other Cloud files, reopened the Quicken file, created a new Quicken Cloud file)--that did NOT fix the problem). The only other thing I didn't do before calling IT was the Export/Import of the 'good' file--maybe that had something to do with the fix, but the IT person did specifically instruct me to delete the older Quicken files (I probably could have also moved them to an external hard drive 'just in case' i needed them again, but I deleted them as per the instructions; I probably could have gotten them back from my Time Machine backup, but thankfully I haven't needed those old files so far).

    I now have the sync to Mobile/web turned off too, and I'm keeping it off just in case this has anything to do with messing things up.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    I will fall off my chair in shock if there is a way that Quicken Cloud, after having all the datasets deleted, is somehow interacting with Quicken data files on the local computer which are not opened. I just don't think that's possible. 

    Yes, exporting your data and then importing it into a new file insures that it's a truly new database, and I suspect that's what got you over the hump. But in doing the export/import you lose any saved reports, budgets, QuickFill rules, attachments, register settings, attachments, etc., so this isn't an ideal solution for many users.

    Nonetheless, I'm still curious why deleting all the Cloud files wasn't enough to resolve the problem. There must be something more in solved that I don't understand. (I just don't think it can be files sitting idle on your hard drive.)
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    I agree. I tried that numerous times without any files other than Quickens backup and had no success. I did it twice myself, once with the customer support rep watching my screen and recording. Once more with the extra support person in addition to the normal customer support. Export / Import didn’t work. Finally they told me to delete the file, open a past known good one from an external drive, not one of the normal backups, and wait while they did something to my cloud file that the normal customer support rep couldn’t do. I still had to reset all of my external connections and passwords, but other than that it’s been working fine for more than a month.
    Of course, just because we had similar symptoms, doesn’t mean we have the same cause. Mine first surfaced when trying to sync to my external banks, etc.
  • JayBugs
    JayBugs Member, Windows Beta, Mac Beta Beta
    I'm having the same issues with old transactions just appearing 1 to several years in the past. Here is an interesting tidbit. I just turned OFF Sync in Preferences: Mobile and Sync and at least 3 of the bad transactions WENT AWAY.

    For now, I'm going to keep sync OFF and try to get my data file back up-to-date using online downloads but NOT syncing to the Mobile/web apps. I value the use of the mobile and web apps, but value my 20,000+ transactions from 20+ years a lot more.

    Hopefully Quicken can acknowledge that they seriously broke something in 6.5.x or on their backend systems as I'm seeing this start for me (or this is when I noticed it) about 28-Jan-2022 and not specifically when I changed to 6.5.x. (Meaning it seems to be 10 or dozens of transactions so it could have happened right with 6.5.0 or it could have been a later 6.5.3 at the end of January.)

    @jacobs I totally agree having other Quicken files on your hard drive impacting Quicken functions would be incredibly poor programming and would imply that they have stale file pointers someplace or are keeping paths around someplace outside of your current file. The point @Gsut makes about things going bad after a force quit does imply that Quicken is keeping some file paths someplace that they normally clear out when shutting down normally and that get left in place during a force quit (of course since it is forced and abnormal and instant) but that when they then start up the next time they use the stale old paths and mess up the current file. I could see some poor programming doing that if you don't clean up everything when Quicken starts.

    I also will not do the QXF file export and import as that would, as noted, lose tons of data and be an inconceivable amount of work to get transfers and brokerage transactions all fixed up from 20 years of transactions...that would be an event I could not tolerate as a solution.
    -Jay
  • BatchelderFinances
    BatchelderFinances Unconfirmed, Member ✭✭
    I am seeing the same symptom on my system. Quicken 6.6.0. If I disable mobile/web sync, my local transactions stay as I edit them. If I enable it, my local transactions are overridden, presumably by the data in the cloud. It was driving me crazy before I stumbled on this thread. And it looks like it is unfixed in 6.6. I'll probably get on the phone with Quicken tomorrow.
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    Its been working fine for me for about a month. It just started again a few days after uploading the new application, same symptoms. If I can recover, I’ll wait a month or more and check back here before updating! Everything was reconciled and after a download from banks, financial institutions I had a bunch of garbage. Some going back to 2018. One of transactions that transferred money form one account to another to a third, then back to the original account. A couple we deposit and withdrawal of the same amount in the same account on the same day.
  • JayBugs
    JayBugs Member, Windows Beta, Mac Beta Beta
    When it was working OK, did you have Quicken Cloud sync (to get data to the Quicken Mobile app) on or off? Just so we can try to help Quicken build some kind of data around what causes the horrible issues. 
    -Jay
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    It was on
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    Tomorrow I’ll try turning it off and see if there are any changes. After that I’ll try clearing out the cloud and starting with a pre error backup
  • BatchelderFinances
    BatchelderFinances Unconfirmed, Member ✭✭
    6.6.1 has fixed this problem for me. Thanks, Quicken!
  • JayBugs
    JayBugs Member, Windows Beta, Mac Beta Beta
    Can anyone else who has had this issue with old transactions changing and transfers breaking when Quicken Cloud sync is On please confirm whether Quicken Mac version 6.6.1 clearly fixes their issues?
    -Jay
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    This was from 3/10, but not posted... Took me longer to get around to it, because I expected a long recovery. I was unfortunately correct. Used a previously good backup file. Did NOT upload the new version. Reset the cloud, and now it's much worse. One credit card account had 40 uncleared transactions going back to 2018 in one account that was previously reconciled. Most from my checking to this card then from this card to the correct card. The sum of the others is over $41K and the online balance is -$1K.
  • JayBugs
    JayBugs Member, Windows Beta, Mac Beta Beta
    @john2018 sorry to hear it/is such a mess. That is about how bad my Quicken file was before restoring from backup and turning Quicken Could sync to Off right away and keeping Cloud Sync Off.

    Can you make it a little clearer on what you mean by "Did NOT upload the new version." Are you talking about not updating Quicken to version 6.6.1 or something about your Quicken data file.

    The goal is now to figure out whether Quicken Mac version 6.6.1 solves the Quicken data file corruption issue with Cloud sync On for more than just one person.
    -Jay
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    On 3/14, I updated to 6.6.1, then spent 77 minutes with customer support. We got to the same point and he deleted everything that wasn't previously reconciled. Of course this left me with a few "reconciled" accounts with thousands of dollars in error. He wanted to search through my history in the unbalanced accountsand see if he could find a transaction or few that would add up to the errors. He tried for about 10 minutes before he went off to see the supervisor. One thing he diod uncover was that I was accessing a few accounts from my login and the same accounts from my wife's. He postulated that the double download attemptds may have been confusing somethng. I went back to a mid-Feb backup file and reset everything. I had only one transaction loop from 2/14 that went from checking to CC to the correct CC. I deleted a few and corrected the pair that had the right path. I did a couple updates later, and all was well. Today, I updated all account online and all seemed to go well - except my checking account that was reconciled yesterday had only 2 transactions today - both to credit card accounts - the credit card accounts are correct, BUT by checking account is now off by $2,171.39 Greater than the sum of the 2 payments :(
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2022
    Jay to be short and specific... Not uploading did mean not updating to 6.6.1. I upgraded to 6.6.1 yesterday and it seemed OK yesterday, but not today. Long specifics above. 6.6.0 worked for a month or so after I cleared this up the first time
  • john2018
    john2018 Member ✭✭✭
    There is a 1/14 entry in a CC account that for the missing amount. It was a transfer from the checking account but had somehow dropped the matching entry in the checking account. It showed up as a reconcile error in the reconcile history for 1/15. Undeleted it in the reconcile window and all accounts are correctly reconciled ! Sync was on, and I turned it off. Now we'll see how well it works going forward...
  • JayBugs
    JayBugs Member, Windows Beta, Mac Beta Beta
    Thanks for the update...so we have one strike against Quicken Mac version 6.6.1 as far as fixing the Quicken Cloud sync being On leading to previously reconciled transactions being changed and transfers being broken...so 6.6.1 didn't fix it. I'm still hoping we'll get a specific answer from @Quicken Victoria as to whether Quicken Mac version 6.6.1 included code to specifically try to fix this bug or not in the 6.6.1 release conversation https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20253722#Comment_20253722. (Hopefully the moderators here, while not the programming team, at least have access to the internal bug database and can pull a list for their use of all bugs marked resolved in 6.6.1 and that depends on how Quicken treats forum moderators and QA staff. Hopefully they have a well integrated team.)

    In any case, the kind of steps it sounds like Quicken support tried are turning out to be a really bad approach from reading the messages on this Cloud sync On bug. You might think you got some of them but there seems to be dozens or hundreds of broken transactions and transfers in any reasonably large Quicken file after doing a Cloud sync and hitting this bug...whatever the parameters around it appearing are which is still unclear to customers and apparently Quicken support staff and programmers.

    It appears that anyone who restored a backup and turns off Cloud sync should stay on the version they are on until this mess gets actually resolved in 6.6.2 or later.
    -Jay