How do you make your deposits show up first when multiple transactions are on same day ?

Buehler63

My deposits seem to be in last no matter when i put them in the register, so how do I get them to list first when multiple transactions are on the same day ?

UKR

A frequently asked question for which, AFAIK, there is no answer at this time.
The programmers have been asked multiple times over the years to enhance the default "by Date" sort order to show transactions on the same day deposits first, then withdrawals.
One suggestion would be to "sort by Date, then by descending amount within Date" which would put deposits first followed by withdrawals.
The programmers have yet to respond.

q_lurker

Through the Actions - Gear icon, you have the Sorting Option of Date/Order Entered.  Using that selection, you have a little more control over the sequence.

NotACPA

@Buehler63

Neither of the banks, where I was a check processing systems manager, posted Credits first.  They posted them in TranCode order ... where the Debit trancode (57 at one bank) posted before the Credit trancode (78 at same bank).  There are many other trancodes, but those were the primary 2 for checks and deposits.

This is done to look for what's known as "Daylight Overdrafts", which are an indication of possible check kiting and other fraudulent behavior.

As long as those Daylight Overdrafts aren't too frequent, or sequential, the bank doesn't really care ... so why do you?

Chris_QPW

NotACPA said:

the bank doesn't really care ... so why do you?

In some cases, this results in a temporary negative number, and that bugs a lot of people.

Sherlock

Interesting...  Deposits always appear ahead of debits in our registers when sorted by date with oldest first.

Chris_QPW

Sherlock said:

Interesting...  Deposits always appear ahead of debits in our registers when sorted by date with oldest first.

I was testing it out with manual entry, and it had some strange sorting.  When I look at my downloaded transactions the payments always appear first.

I take that back.  I just noticed a refund on one day that came after the debits.  So, it isn't "always" for downloaded transactions.

NotACPA

Chris_QPW said:

NotACPA said:

the bank doesn't really care ... so why do you?

In some cases, this results in a temporary negative number, and that bugs a lot of people.

And that's an indication of a Daylight Overdraft.  They really should pay more attention to their banking activity.

BUT, the key point here is that it's a TEMPORARY negative number.

Chris_QPW

NotACPA said:

Chris_QPW said:

NotACPA said:

the bank doesn't really care ... so why do you?

In some cases, this results in a temporary negative number, and that bugs a lot of people.

And that's an indication of a Daylight Overdraft.  They really should pay more attention to their banking activity.

BUT, the key point here is that it's a TEMPORARY negative number.

In truth, that negative number should bug them enough to change their banking activities, but I guess it doesn't.  

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Sherlock said:

Interesting...  Deposits always appear ahead of debits in our registers when sorted by date with oldest first.

I was testing it out with manual entry, and it had some strange sorting.  When I look at my downloaded transactions the payments always appear first.

I take that back.  I just noticed a refund on one day that came after the debits.  So, it isn't "always" for downloaded transactions.

Payment is ambiguous.  A payment may be a deposit in credit card register or a debit in a checking register.

With manual entry, deposit always sorts before debit when the register sorted by date with oldest first in our Quicken file.

Regarding downloaded transactions, we don't have automatic entry enabled (although our Fidelity CMA behaves as if it is) but, generally, we match entered transactions.   It would be surprising to me if accepting new transactions into a register (either manually or automatically) sorted differently.

Chris_QPW

Sherlock said:

Payment is ambiguous.  A payment may be a deposit in credit card register or a debit in a checking register.

For downloading I was looking in a credit card account so payment in this case is a positive amount:

In that same account:


The reason I separated out downloaded transactions from manual ones is because for the most part with the exception of credit card payments I don't pre-enter anything and as such looking at downloaded transaction sorting "as it was" and seemed to follow the pattern that deposits came first, but when I looked further that transaction shown above broke the rule.

But when manually entering them, I got some "crazy" sorting.

Example.  These were entered Test Payee, and the Test/Salary, and last Test/Salary Spouse:


I add another test payee and it inserted in the middle.  And then another test/salary and it sorted before like this:


When I tried this a brand-new offline account everything seemed to sort with the deposits first no matter how I entered them:


So, to my eye they (the developers) are trying to sort these with the deposits first, but some bugs prevent it from happening sometimes.

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Sherlock said:

Payment is ambiguous.  A payment may be a deposit in credit card register or a debit in a checking register.

For downloading I was looking in a credit card account so payment in this case is a positive amount:

In that same account:


The reason I separated out downloaded transactions from manual ones is because for the most part with the exception of credit card payments I don't pre-enter anything and as such looking at downloaded transaction sorting "as it was" and seemed to follow the pattern that deposits came first, but when I looked further that transaction shown above broke the rule.

But when manually entering them, I got some "crazy" sorting.

Example.  These were entered Test Payee, and the Test/Salary, and last Test/Salary Spouse:


I add another test payee and it inserted in the middle.  And then another test/salary and it sorted before like this:


When I tried this a brand-new offline account everything seemed to sort with the deposits first no matter how I entered them:


So, to my eye they (the developers) are trying to sort these with the deposits first, but some bugs prevent it from happening sometimes.

If you haven't already, please verify the sort order is by Date with oldest first (arrow up) in the credit card account register just as it is in the brand-new offline account register.

Chris_QPW

Sherlock said:

If you haven't already, please verify the sort order is by Date with oldest first (arrow up) in the credit card account register just as it is in the brand-new offline account register.

Yes, it is sorted that way.  In fact, that is the only way I sort my accounts.

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Sherlock said:

If you haven't already, please verify the sort order is by Date with oldest first (arrow up) in the credit card account register just as it is in the brand-new offline account register.

Yes, it is sorted that way.  In fact, that is the only way I sort my accounts.

That is what we try to do as well but all it takes is a left-click on a column title. 

Note: If you checked the Downloaded Posting Date column to display in the register, clicked on the Posting Date column title, and subsequently unchecked the Downloaded Posting Date column, the register remains sorted by Posting Date which might explain the crazy sorting you describe in the credit card account register.

Chris_QPW

Well, here is good one.  Doing nothing, just going into that account today and looking at the same transactions, and now the payment/positive value is after the charges/negative values:


And no matter what I do I can't get it to change back, that includes showing the Downloaded Posting date, and removing it, reverse sorting by date, ...

Just for reference all my posting dates are the same as the main date in the register.  Which isn't surprising since only the payment was entered using a reminder.

And note that when I was referring to "crazy" I was referring to in the other post was in my checking account, which is an online account, but the entries were all manual.

mshiggins

If you have reminders set to display in the register, try turning the reminder display off or try a different time period for the reminders to show. 

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Well, here is good one.  Doing nothing, just going into that account today and looking at the same transactions, and now the payment/positive value is after the charges/negative values:


And no matter what I do I can't get it to change back, that includes showing the Downloaded Posting date, and removing it, reverse sorting by date, ...

Just for reference all my posting dates are the same as the main date in the register.  Which isn't surprising since only the payment was entered using a reminder.

And note that when I was referring to "crazy" I was referring to in the other post was in my checking account, which is an online account, but the entries were all manual.

I suggest you try to reproduce the issue in a new Quicken file.  If the issue doesn't reproduce, I suggest you try the Copy and Validate instructions as described at: https://www.quicken.com/support/advanced-data-file-troubleshooting-correct-problems-quicken-windows

Chris_QPW

mshiggins said:

If you have reminders set to display in the register, try turning the reminder display off or try a different time period for the reminders to show. 

That is it!

With reminders hidden:


I can set the reminders to show to up to 14 days where I don't have any reminders and it still sorts with the payment first.

But when I set it to 30 days and my next payment reminder shows up:


EDIT.  I just added a new reminder in a few days in the future, and that one causes the payment on 1/13/2022 to be at the end too.  So, it is any reminder, not just my payment reminder.

ElPope

Has this been catalogued as a bug? I would like Deposits to come before Payments, without having to hide Reminders. Thanks!

Sherlock

ElPope said:

Has this been catalogued as a bug? I would like Deposits to come before Payments, without having to hide Reminders. Thanks!

If you haven't already, I suggest you select Help > Report a problem....

NotACPA

HOW is the order of posting a BUG?  Especially when I explained, above, that some banks intentionally post debits first.

This claim is about as specious as I've ever seen.

Chris_QPW

NotACPA said:

HOW is the order of posting a BUG?  Especially when I explained, above, that some banks intentionally post debits first.

This claim is about as specious as I've ever seen.

It is a bug if Quicken does one thing when there aren't any reminders, and another when there are any.