How to Separate 2 entities (Brokerage and Mutual fnd companies) I combined yrs ago in 1 account

saltydog

Many years ago when I started using Quicken I made the mistake of putting two financial institutions into one account (a brokerage house and a mutual fund company) named "Stocks". I never tried to download data to it--just put the entries in manually from the paper statements. But when I was trying to correct multiple double entries from a recent update and I had to redo some account properties I erroneously authorized updating the brokerage and mutual fund company's data on the next data download. It did not go well. I will go to the prior backup and start again there, but I'd like to correct my early mistake and separate the two entities. I've been told I cannot divide the current account. I was thinking of HIDING the account, then going to the two entities and downloading them as if they were new accounts. That would allow me to retain all the old data if I need to access it, and be able to have current and new data downloadable. Is this a good way to this? Is there a better way? Thank you for any help/guidance you can offer.

Frankx

Hi @saltydog

Can you give us some additional information that will help us to help you sort this out?

When you started the Quicken account that included two different FI accounts, did you record entries for each of the accounts such that - if they were able to be separated each into another account - they would represent a complete accounting of the transactions that occurred?  If you believe that you've already established a good history of past transactions, you may be able to separate the two accounts into new Quicken accounts and then start to download new transactions into each.

If that does not make sense (e.g. is the history already entered into Quicken isn't complete and/or reliable, then it may be easier/better to start fresh.

Let me have your thoughts.

Frankx

Jim_Harman

One way you could handle this would be to back up your data in case something goes wrong, then set up two new accounts in Quicken, one for each real life account, as you describe above. This assumes you do not have overlapping holdings between the accounts, i.e. the same security held in both accounts. This process will be easiest if there has not been a lot of active trading in these accounts.

Let the FIs download whatever transactions they have available. Depending on the FI, this could be anything from 90 days to a couple of years worth of transactions. These initial downloads will create Placeholders to make up for the holdings in the accounts before the oldest downloaded transactions.

You could call it a day at this point and just go forward with the separate online accounts and mark your old account Separate.

Or you could tie up all the loose ends by making another backup, then going to the old, combined account and carefully deleting the transactions that duplicate the ones you have just downloaded. Then you can move the earlier transactions for the securities you held just before the download cutoff date to the new accounts. The move function is found in the account's gear menu. Read the instructions carefully and proceed with caution.

This should make all the placeholders go to zero, because you have accounted for all the shares in the new accounts. At this point you can delete the placeholders.

The old account should be left with the transactions for any securities you sold before the download cutoff date and a zero share balance.

Good luck!

Rocket J Squirrel

saltydog said:

When I tried to find a way to do this a couple of years ago, I only found that I could move a single transaction at a time. Is there a way to move all transactions of a particular stock or fund at once?

Yes, a relatively new feature makes this easy. Under the gear menu, find Move Transactions. The resulting dialog allows you to sort by various fields including Security.

Sherlock

saltydog said:

I'm clearly a novice here--don't see how to reply to both persons who have left helpful suggestions separately. Thank you both! So I'll do it in this comment box:
@Frankx --Thank you! I have documented all transactions so they should be transferable to a new account. But I would do that only if I can "pull out" all the transactions of say Qualcom as a unit and paste/enter them into a new account em masse, not individually. I've got more than 10 years of entries. When I tried to find a way to do this a couple of years ago, I only found that I could move a single transaction at a time. Is there a way to move all transactions of a particular stock or fund at once?
@Jim_Harman --Thank you,also! I'm leaning towards doing your method. I would probably not try to get all the old data into the two new Accounts. Just too much work. If I can keep that old data in the program and accessible by looking in the "Separate" account I would still have access to any info that I might need. Yes it would take a couple of steps, but much less work overall then going through individual transactions to clean it up.
Thanks again to both of you
SaltyDog

The good news is that we may now move multiple investment transactions: open the investment register, press Ctrl + Shift + N, and select Move Transactions

The bad news you need to decide if the work is worth the benefit.  I think the issue comes downs to how intertwined  the transactions may be.  If the security holdings are distinct, the entanglement will be limited to Cash.

Whichever approach you choose, just be certain to save Quicken file backups so that you may recover from any unforeseen issues.

Rocket J Squirrel

Jim_Harman said:

Tools
Add account
Specify your FI
Follow the directions from there to add your account.

I don't think I would do it this way. I think your initial thoughts were closer to what I would do.

Creating the account as online will generate placeholders, i.e., extra work.

I would be more inclined to create the account as offline, then move all the relevant transactions into it, and finally connect the account as online.

Frankx

Hi @saltydog

Can you give us some additional information that will help us to help you sort this out?

When you started the Quicken account that included two different FI accounts, did you record entries for each of the accounts such that - if they were able to be separated each into another account - they would represent a complete accounting of the transactions that occurred?  If you believe that you've already established a good history of past transactions, you may be able to separate the two accounts into new Quicken accounts and then start to download new transactions into each.

If that does not make sense (e.g. is the history already entered into Quicken isn't complete and/or reliable, then it may be easier/better to start fresh.

Let me have your thoughts.

Frankx

Jim_Harman

One way you could handle this would be to back up your data in case something goes wrong, then set up two new accounts in Quicken, one for each real life account, as you describe above. This assumes you do not have overlapping holdings between the accounts, i.e. the same security held in both accounts. This process will be easiest if there has not been a lot of active trading in these accounts.

Let the FIs download whatever transactions they have available. Depending on the FI, this could be anything from 90 days to a couple of years worth of transactions. These initial downloads will create Placeholders to make up for the holdings in the accounts before the oldest downloaded transactions.

You could call it a day at this point and just go forward with the separate online accounts and mark your old account Separate.

Or you could tie up all the loose ends by making another backup, then going to the old, combined account and carefully deleting the transactions that duplicate the ones you have just downloaded. Then you can move the earlier transactions for the securities you held just before the download cutoff date to the new accounts. The move function is found in the account's gear menu. Read the instructions carefully and proceed with caution.

This should make all the placeholders go to zero, because you have accounted for all the shares in the new accounts. At this point you can delete the placeholders.

The old account should be left with the transactions for any securities you sold before the download cutoff date and a zero share balance.

Good luck!

saltydog

I'm clearly a novice here--don't see how to reply to both persons who have left helpful suggestions separately. Thank you both! So I'll do it in this comment box:
@Frankx --Thank you! I have documented all transactions so they should be transferable to a new account. But I would do that only if I can "pull out" all the transactions of say Qualcom as a unit and paste/enter them into a new account em masse, not individually. I've got more than 10 years of entries. When I tried to find a way to do this a couple of years ago, I only found that I could move a single transaction at a time. Is there a way to move all transactions of a particular stock or fund at once?
@Jim_Harman --Thank you,also! I'm leaning towards doing your method. I would probably not try to get all the old data into the two new Accounts. Just too much work. If I can keep that old data in the program and accessible by looking in the "Separate" account I would still have access to any info that I might need. Yes it would take a couple of steps, but much less work overall then going through individual transactions to clean it up.
Thanks again to both of you
SaltyDog

Rocket J Squirrel

saltydog said:

When I tried to find a way to do this a couple of years ago, I only found that I could move a single transaction at a time. Is there a way to move all transactions of a particular stock or fund at once?

Yes, a relatively new feature makes this easy. Under the gear menu, find Move Transactions. The resulting dialog allows you to sort by various fields including Security.

Sherlock

saltydog said:

I'm clearly a novice here--don't see how to reply to both persons who have left helpful suggestions separately. Thank you both! So I'll do it in this comment box:
@Frankx --Thank you! I have documented all transactions so they should be transferable to a new account. But I would do that only if I can "pull out" all the transactions of say Qualcom as a unit and paste/enter them into a new account em masse, not individually. I've got more than 10 years of entries. When I tried to find a way to do this a couple of years ago, I only found that I could move a single transaction at a time. Is there a way to move all transactions of a particular stock or fund at once?
@Jim_Harman --Thank you,also! I'm leaning towards doing your method. I would probably not try to get all the old data into the two new Accounts. Just too much work. If I can keep that old data in the program and accessible by looking in the "Separate" account I would still have access to any info that I might need. Yes it would take a couple of steps, but much less work overall then going through individual transactions to clean it up.
Thanks again to both of you
SaltyDog

The good news is that we may now move multiple investment transactions: open the investment register, press Ctrl + Shift + N, and select Move Transactions

The bad news you need to decide if the work is worth the benefit.  I think the issue comes downs to how intertwined  the transactions may be.  If the security holdings are distinct, the entanglement will be limited to Cash.

Whichever approach you choose, just be certain to save Quicken file backups so that you may recover from any unforeseen issues.

saltydog

So now my problem is creating an empty account into which I can move the holdings and associate with a Financial Institution for downloading data.

Jim_Harman

Sorry, all this is wrong, I was thinking about a different problem.
You will not be downloading into this account, so set it up as an offline account.

Tools
Add account
Offline account
IRA
Complete investing
(name the account), US Dollar
(initial balance = 0)
(no securities)
(Yes that's right)
Myself, Roth IRA
not single mutual fund
Finish

[Sorry, I hit Save too soon, this is now the complete list]

Do this instead

Tools
Add account
Specify your FI
Follow the directions from there to add your account.

Rocket J Squirrel

Jim_Harman said:

Tools
Add account
Specify your FI
Follow the directions from there to add your account.

I don't think I would do it this way. I think your initial thoughts were closer to what I would do.

Creating the account as online will generate placeholders, i.e., extra work.

I would be more inclined to create the account as offline, then move all the relevant transactions into it, and finally connect the account as online.

Sherlock

Rocket J Squirrel said:

Jim_Harman said:

Tools
Add account
Specify your FI
Follow the directions from there to add your account.

I don't think I would do it this way. I think your initial thoughts were closer to what I would do.

Creating the account as online will generate placeholders, i.e., extra work.

I would be more inclined to create the account as offline, then move all the relevant transactions into it, and finally connect the account as online.

In my opinion, it may be done either way.  The advantages of enabling the Online Services upfront is that you may delete the imported transactions more easily.  The advantage of enabling the Online Services afterward is that you may match the imported transactions to the transactions entered for validation. 

Jim_Harman

I think either way would work. I was trying to set it up so the initial downloads, which would presumably duplicate transactions that are already in the combined account, would be easier to deal with. My plan was that he would accept the downloads then delete the duplicates from the combined account.

Maybe it would be better to delete all the downloaded transactions then move all the transactions from the existing account.

Chris_QPW

Personally I wouldn't trust trying to match in an investment account.  I can see how one would manually enter transactions and have all the positions correct but not have transactions that identically match what would be downloaded.

Given that the positions in the original account are all accurate to the current, I would definitely download into a new account delete all the transactions and then move the transactions from the old account to the new one maybe the only thing you should have to correct is like the opening balance.

And then you go from there as far as downloading new transactions.

saltydog

Thank You!! Thanks to all you guys helping me. You're all are awesome!! I worked on it last weekend and managed to make it all work. I was disappointed in the "move" tool in that it didn't get all the entries on a particular fund or stock in one go. It got most, but I had to fine tooth comb it visually to assure myself I had finally gotten everybody in the right fund. But it's done now and I am enjoying not having to enter changes and transactions by hand. Again, you guys really helped me do it!!! Saltydog