QWin syncs to cloud despite web being disabled - why? How to stop it?

Rocket J Squirrel

I never use Mobile & Web and that setting has always been disabled in preferences.

Yet today, I did my usual daily OSU and saw the following on QWin R50.16. Why did this happen and how can I prevent it? I don't trust mobile/web not to corrupt my data.

mshiggins

Revert to an older patch level?

I'm assuming you don't want to go without downloading transactions and running with your network adaptor disabled like I do.

Rocket J Squirrel

@mshiggins

I wouldn't know which patch level to revert to. I have no evidence that this is a new thing or just an old thing that coincidentally happened to me today.

Your assumption about downloading is correct.

Boatnmaniac

I don't think this syncing is anything new. Quicken has synced with the Cloud Account ever since 2014, even with Mobile & Web Sync turned off. I don't believe (not for sure) that when Sync is turned off there is anything more being synced than basic things like, license validation, subscription info and status, categories (never figured out why this happens), perhaps some basic FI information (so we can be notified of issues/changes when appropriate) and perhaps a few other rather benign things. But maybe I'm all wet behind the ears.

Mobile & Web Sync need to be turned on in order to sync the actual detailed financial information of accounts you want to view on Mobile & Web.

What I have noticed over the last couple of years is that some of the messaging we see in Quicken has been changing to perhaps better reflect reality. For instance, it used to be that EWC PWs showed in PW Vault as being saved even though we knew that they weren't saved in the data file. Now it shows in PW Vault that EWC/EWC+ FI PWs are "Not Required" which much better reflects reality. And now we are seeing this syncing with the Cloud Account which we didn't see before even though we knew that there was some level of syncing occur before, just that it was never messaged before.

Whether I'm right or wrong about this, it sure would be nice if there would be a Support Article or FAQ generated by the Quicken team advising what information is being synced when Mobile & Web Sync is turned off. The question pops up in Community fairly frequently and it would really be good to be able to point them to some authoritative documentation about it.

QWinUser

I discovered that Quicken seems to sync your information to the cloud even if you shut off syncing.

I normally have all syncing and mobile access turned off.

But when I turn on Sync, I noticed something interesting -

The last sync date and time on this screen corresponds to my last OSU. I had Sync turned off when I did this OSU.

I don't have the Sync checkbox on the OSU to check or uncheck, but again a sync to the cloud looks like it's being done.

That is why I always make sure none of my accounts are enabled for syncing (hence the "0 accounts synched successfully") on this screen, and I uncheck "Sync to cloud on closing Quicken" in the upper right of the screen. I have found that new accounts are enabled for syncing and the "Sync to cloud on closing Quicken is checked by default.

So even if you have Sync turned off, it looks like your information is still being sent to the cloud. This may be just "administrative" account information or password information but Quicken has never disclosed what information is still being sent to the cloud when you turn off Sync. Nor have they confirmed that no information will be sent to the cloud if you turn Sync off.

Ps56k2

I'm guessing it might be for EWC type accounts -

Do you have any EWC type accounts - that need the Intuit proxy service to go get your account info for the downloading

QWinUser

Yes I have EWC and EWC+ accounts. I really do think that Quicken should document what information is synced when you have Sync=Off. It doesn't bother me at all that information is being synched with the cloud, but transparency would be nice.

There are people who voiced their concern in the community forum and don't want Quicken to share or store their information in the cloud. I think these people don't realize that their information may be in the cloud even if they turn off syncing. I don't think that is being made clear to them.

Rocket J Squirrel

@QWinUser

This may be just "administrative" account information or password information but Quicken has never disclosed what information is still being sent to the cloud when you turn off Sync.

But but but, look at the screen cap in my OP. It sure looks like it's uploading "Banking Accounts". We just don't know what that really means because, as you say, Q Inc won't tell us.

Chris_QPW

I would hope that at least all th SuperUsers know that Express Web Connect and Express Web Connect + are “cloud sync”.

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7882641/qcs-express-web-connect-is-cloud-sync

Boatnmaniac

Thanks for piping in here, @Chris_QPW . I don't recall seeing that thread you'd posted before. It has some good and interesting information and insights. Thanks for posting it.

I do know that EWC/EWC+ accounts will sync with the Cloud Account but I'd thought that syncing only occurs during first setup of the accounts and during OSU or Update Now. Are you saying that it occurs at other times, too?

BTW, that Sync picture in the first post of this thread I only see once in a while:

• When creating a new file.
• When restoring a backup file, most notably when the back up file is more than a couple of days old.
• When signing out and then signing back into Quicken.
• When Quicken prompts me to sign in upon launching Quicken (I do get prompted to do that every once in a while….maybe once a month or so).

Normally I never see that sync popup. I can't remember any instances of it popping up during initial account setups nor during OSU or Update Now.

Your concerns regarding how the EWC/EWC+ data in the Cloud Account are a risk for accounts data integrity in the data file makes me think that perhaps in addition to doing frequent backups we should also perhaps be making occasional copies of our data files (via Quicken's copy function, not Windows' copy function). That would create new IDs and Cloud Accounts specific to the copied files that is separate from the main data files so any Cloud Account corruption with the main files would not affect the copied files. But, wow, that could end up creating a lot of Cloud Accounts over time. Do you think that would reduce the risk? Do you think that would be overkill?

Chris_QPW

but I'd thought that syncing only occurs during first setup of the accounts and during OSU or Update Now. Are you saying that it occurs at other times, too?

BTW, that Sync picture in the first post of this thread I only see once in a while:

When creating a new file.

When restoring a backup file, most notably when the back up file is more than a couple of days old.

When signing out and then signing back into Quicken.

When Quicken prompts me to sign in upon launching Quicken (I do get prompted to do that every once in a while….maybe once a month or so).

Every one of the cases you listed above is a case where Quicken syncs with the Cloud data/account.

And adding depending on how you add an attachment might get a sync of at least that part of the information.

Your concerns regarding how the EWC/EWC+ data in the Cloud Account are a risk for accounts data integrity in the data file makes me think that perhaps in addition to doing frequent backups we should also perhaps be making occasional copies of our data files (via Quicken's copy function, not Windows' copy function). That would create new IDs and Cloud Accounts specific to the copied files that is separate from the main data files so any Cloud Account corruption with the main files would not affect the copied files. But, wow, that could end up creating a lot of Cloud Accounts over time. Do you think that would reduce the risk? Do you think that would be overkill?

It is the restore that does the sync, not the backup. You can do as many backups as you like and not cause as problem with the "too many datasets" problem. Here is the problem they faced and "solved", that leads to the too many dataset problem.

It is hard enough for them to keep your Quicken Desktop data file and the Quicken Cloud dataset in sync when both of them are being updated at the same time, but imagine this. Your Quicken Cloud dataset has the "current state", and now you restore from a data file that might have different accounts setup, different categories, transactions, … I think they determined that there was no way to reliably sync the two, and so what they do it push the current Quicken Cloud dataset to some kind of "don't use state" and create a brand new one and sync your Quicken Desktop data file to it. From what they have said the reason they don't just delete the Quicken Cloud dataset is because of some kind of requirement to never delete it unless the customer requests it.

Note that one can either change the type of the file to .QDF from QDF-backup and open or do the same with a copy of the QDF file to avoid the restore, but you also risk them figuring that they can do a sync down from the current Quicken Cloud dataset and mess things up. So, to be on the safe side if you just open an old copy, you should remove the Quicken Cloud dataset first.

Chris_QPW

Two more things. At no time has Quicken Inc said what is synced, and when. So, by "synced" above I mean that some information is exchanged but can't tell how much in each case. Or how long it is kept for that matter. But certainly, at times it does include your transactions.

The other thing I would like to mention is that I never get a prompt to login to Quicken, it always stays logged in. This is on a desktop computer and other than my wife "viewing"/never changing a copy of that data file, the computers don't "move". It is possible that using Quicken on a laptop that moves around to different networks might trigger logins, but I don't know.

BK

RE: " … So, to be on the safe side if you just open an old copy, you should remove the Quicken Cloud dataset first."

I never thought of this @Chris_QPW . Thank you. I rarely have to use a backup. When I do I manually rename it (I don't use the Quicken's restore feature). But I observed that occasionally it leads to a couple of CC-800 errors. And what you wrote perhaps explains the error and hopefully deleting the dataset first should eliminate it. Thanks again.

Going back to the original topic of this post, I have observed that after I do a release upgrade, the upgrade process may sporadically enable my Sync. I always use the manual Mondo patch. So I have learned to check my Preferences settings immediately after an upgrade to ensure Sync is off.

Boatnmaniac

Thanks for the response, @Chris_QPW. I, too, never thought of deleting the Cloud Account first when doing restores. I actually like that idea more than making Quicken copies of the data files.

@BK - I've noticed that version updates will sometimes change a variety of Preferences at random. So, I always check all my preferences after every version update that I do. The three that have concerned me the most are the Mobile & Sync setting, the Simple vs Complete investing settings (both in Preferences and on the General tab of Account details) and the Backup settings.

Rocket J Squirrel

A lively discussion. 😁

@Chris_QPW and others, yes I was aware that EWC+ uses cloud sync as its download mechanism. It's the other direction that concerns me, and I should have been more clear about that. The word "to" in my thread title is too subtle.

The thing I don't recall seeing is that graphic in my OP which seems to indicate banking data is uploading to the cloud. I haven't changed any accounts recently, so why did it suddenly decide to do that and show me the graphic?

Chris_QPW

@Rocket J Squirrel 100% Express Web Connect (+) transaction data is uploaded. It isn't just done in the download direction. My testing proves that. It is this fact of why attachments show up in the Cloud data, not mention things like the reconcile status.

Chris_QPW

Oh, it seems that I forgot (or more like by the time I knew that other thread was closed) to mention. Express Web Connect (+) activity is logged in the Cloud Sync log. I think that is pretty good proof right there of what system they are using. And given the nature of the Quicken programmers to "do the minimum needed to get it to work" the simplest way to implement "QCS" was to just put the sync in the middle but set some flag that the information shouldn't be shown on the Web/Mobile GUIs.

Note it has been stated that one of the main reasons to go to QCS was to put Quicken Inc into the flow. Express Web Connect before QCS was implemented for it, was a communication directly between Quicken (the program) and the Intuit servers. That is no longer the case with QCS. I have pointed this out many times.

Syncing of attachments when using Express Web Connect started when they switched to QCS. In fact, for a long time I was able to hold off that change over and tested it in both modes.

Chris_QPW

One last thing. Since the flow is:

Quicken (the program) → QCS Quicken Cloud Services/Quicken Cloud dataset → Intuit → Financial institution, the Quicken Cloud Sync log only has the information for the sync, between Quicken and the QCS, not anything from QCS to Intuit or beyond.

Also, I probably should have made all of those arrows: ← →, to show bidirectionality, but I got lazy. But I have mentioned that it is bi-directional many times.