Is This A Bug Or Is There A Solution...

JoelC

I was further refining the Quicken Classic views and ran into a problem.

In the below chart / view please note that:

i) The far right top corner lists the income as $11,801.79. This is the correct amount.

ii) The left mouse over lists the income as $11,650.42.

Would appreciate feedback as to:

i) Is this a bug in which case let's hope Quicken will fix it; or

ii) If this is not a bug, any one have an idea for a solution?

Thank you.

Quicken Jasmine

Hello @JoelC,

Are you receiving any error codes or messages? When did this issue begin to occur? After a recent update? Does this occur across multiple charts?

Thanks!

JoelC

@Quicken Jasmine , appreciate the response and note:

i) I am not receiving any error code or message. I simply noticed the difference when mousing over the leftmost asset bar.

ii) I have just recently started to explore / use Quicken's "view" capabilities so can point to a build that it first appeared (i.e., it has been present for teh last month which is when started to explore / use Quicken's "view" capabilities)

iii) I have not noticed this with other charts, just this chart but repeatedly. If I notice something similar with other charts then I will report back.

iv) Worth noting, it DOES occur in the Your Business Status chart per the chart in the OP but DOES NOT occur in the Income vs Expenses chart below.

I hope this is helpful.

Joel

Quicken Jasmine

Hello @JoelC,

Thank you for providing more information.

To start with, I suggest that you please try validating and/or super validating your data file. However, I do recommend that you first save a backup file prior to performing these steps.

Validate: 

1. File
2. Validate and Repair File...
   
3. Validate File
   
4. Click OK
5. Close the Data Log
   
6. Close Quicken (leave it closed for at least 5 secs)
7. Reopen Quicken and see if the issue persists.

If the issue persists, proceed to Super Validate. If the issue is resolved after performing validation, then please disregard the instructions to Super Validate.

Super Validate:

1. File
2. Hold CTRL + Shift and click Validate and Repair File...
   
3. Super Validate File
4. Click OK
5. Close the Data Log
   
6. Close Quicken (leave it closed for at least 5 secs)
7. Reopen Quicken and see if the issue persists.

Please let me know how this goes!

JoelC

Nope, no change, nada! Problem is still there.

Perhaps it is a bug!

mshiggins

It's not clear how you produced the display in your screenshot. It looks much like a Reports > Spending > Income/Expense graph; but in my U.S. Quicken version of that graph I have no amount in the upper right of the graph.  Can you clear that up?

For starters, I would see whether double-clicking on the income and expense bars produces more detailed information about what makes up their amounts. Or whether the graph is accompanied by a report that can be displayed to provide more detail about the makeup of the graph bars.

In the process, look for transactions that could account for the difference (the $157.37) between the "correct amount" and the "incorrect amount".

Also check the "Customize" tab (if present) to see whether any of the options there could be involved (cash/accrual basis, or transfers, for example).

-JP

JoelC

@mshigins, as always, much thanks for your response noting:

i) The screenshot is that of an available item in a Quicken View, most notably the Your Business Status item (see below).

ii) I did nothing to create the dollar amount in the upper right hand corner (i.e., it was just there as part of the Your Business Status Item "item").

iii) The delta of $151.38 consisted of Dividend Income in a business investment account. The Your Business Status item has been customized to capture this amount per the "Customize this graph" option.

iv) Worth noting the "Income vs Expenses" item and the "Your Business Status" item have been customized in the exactly the same way. The bar graph and over are correct for the "Income vs Expenses" item and incorrect for the "Your Business Status" item.

v) This is why it is so puzzling as to the difference which leads me to question whether it may be a bug, especially since the top right corner of the "Your Business Status" item displays the correct amount.

Thank you!.

Jim_Harman

I am certainly not an expert in this area, but I am the Treasurer of a small nonprofit that uses an accountant to prepare monthly financial statements.

The Income Statement includes the group's operating income and expenses but does not include income from our investing accounts, which remains in those accounts until money is transferred to the group's checking account. The balances of the investing and checking accounts are included in the group's Balance Sheet.

Perhaps that explains what you are seeing.

JoelC

@Jim_Harman I too am not an expert I this area but am confused by the inconsistency between the top right corner and the left side mouse over.

There is also the point that it is configured to include the dividend income (i.e., this is actual cash received, it is not unrealized)

Thank you.

JoelC

Hi All!

Let's add a little more to the mystery.

The OP as an example where teh numbers did not match on the income.

There is now an example where the numbers do not match on the expenses with the expense number being correct in the "Income vs Expense" chart and incorrect in the "Your Business Status" chart. The transaction not being picked up by the latter is a properly categorized business expense.

We now have two examples where:

i) The Income vs Expenses chart shows the correct amount; and

ii) The Your Business Status shows the incorrect amount.

I would very much like to get to the bottom of this and would appreciate any assistance and insight.

PS. Quicken, perhaps with two such examples this is worth looking into?

Thank you.

mshiggins

Thanks for providing the source of the display; sorry, I completely missed it when I looked before.

I looked in my test Quicken file and I see the issue you describe.

In my case, however; the Income bar in the graph contained the correct amount, while the amount in the upper-right was wrong.

[I customized the "Your Business Status" widget to use All Accounts (except hidden) and All Categories (except hidden).

To dig deeper into the problem; I clicked on the Your Business Status Income bar which produced essentially an Income/Expense graph with a button to "Show Report". 

The first thing I noticed was that when I hovered my cursor on the Income bar, it now displayed a different amount - it now displayed the same amount that was in the upper-right on the initial Your Business Status graph. 

I clicked "Show Report" and immediately saw the categories that made up the income amount. Drilling down on several of the categories produced transactions that were NOT "business transactions", therefore did not belong in the graph/report.

So in my case, the correct amount for "Your Business Status" was in the Income bar; the incorrect amount in the upper-right was produced using non-business transactions.

[Quicken business reports/graphs intend to use ONLY Quicken "business transactions". In the U.S. Quicken version, a business transaction must satisfy one of two criteria: the transaction must have a Schedule E tax line item assigned, or it must have NO tax line item assigned but have a Business Tag assigned (see Business > Manage Business Information to create Business Tags).]

In my opinion, Quicken should have applied its normal rule for determining what transactions would be used to produce the "Your Business Status" widget. Instead Quicken seems to have ignored the "business transaction" distinction and utilized any transaction that qualified based solely on the Customize dialog.

Note that one of the ramifications of the rule for determining whether a transaction is a "business transaction", automatically eliminates (or should automatically eliminate) many investment transactions, since many investment transactions cannot have business tax line items, or business tags, assigned.]

To the extent that your problem relates to investment transactions, I'm not inclined to think of that as a bug; I don't believe Quicken ever intended for investment transactions to be treated as "business transactions". And given the nature of the type of business Quicken deals with (Scheduled C only, in the U.S.), I'm not sure it makes any sense to attempt to classify investment transactions as "business transactions".

But in my test, there were non-investment non-business transactions included in upper-right amount in the "Your Business Status" graph: I would call that a bug.

-JP

JoelC

@mshiggins , as always, much thanks for the detailed response and for taking the time to respond.

To dig deeper into the problem; I clicked on the Your Business Status Income bar which produced essentially an Income/Expense graph with a button to "Show Report". 

Exactly, this is teh exact method I used to determine which amount is correct and which is incorrect.

In my opinion, Quicken should have applied its normal rule for determining what transactions would be used to produce the "Your Business Status" widget. Instead Quicken seems to have ignored the "business transaction" distinction and utilized any transaction that qualified based solely on the Customize dialog.

I did not notice this as I was very careful to manually select only Business transaction. The result is that in my case the Your Business Status chart is failing to pick everything up whereas the Income vs Expense chart is picking everything up (and, before anyone asks, the two are identically configured).

In my opinion, Quicken should have applied its normal rule for determining what transactions would be used to produce the "Your Business Status" widget. Instead Quicken seems to have ignored the "business transaction" distinction and utilized any transaction that qualified based solely on the Customize dialog.

I think this is an excellent idea / improvement.

Note that one of the ramifications of the rule for determining whether a transaction is a "business transaction", automatically eliminates (or should automatically eliminate) many investment transactions, since many investment transactions cannot have business tax line items, or business tags, assigned.]

I will need to dig deeper into this case as I have not yet tested this. Is this the case even when an investment account is categorized as a business account.

To the extent that your problem relates to investment transactions, I'm not inclined to think of that as a bug; I don't believe Quicken ever intended for investment transactions to be treated as "business transactions". And given the nature of the type of business Quicken deals with (Scheduled C only, in the U.S.), I'm not sure it makes any sense to attempt to classify investment transactions as "business transactions".

There is still the issue of the inconsistency that the Income vs Expenses charts picks up the investments amounts whereas the Yoru Business Status chart does not.

But in my test, there were non-investment non-business transactions included in upper-right amount in the "Your Business Status" graph: I would call that a bug.

This was the case for the second instance I reported!

*****

Greatly appreciate the assist in confirming that it is a bug and that I am not the only one experiencing the problem.

Hey Quicken, over to you to fix!

mshiggins

"The result is that in my case the Your Business Status chart is failing to pick everything up whereas the Income vs Expense chart is picking everything up (and, before anyone asks, the two are identically configured)."

You're correct when you say the "Your Business Status chart is failing to pick up everything ...", but I believe you may have missed my point: Your Business Status is "failing to pick up" non-business transactions - and that is what it should do. It is correct.

It is the amount in the upper right that is picking up everything (it is including non-business transactions) - and it should not be doing that. It is wrong.

Later, in response to my comment that many investment transactions will not be (cannot be) treated as "business transactions", you ask: "Is this the case even when an investment account is categorized as a business account."

Yes. 

In fact, designating a Quicken account as a business account has no effect on the treatment of its transactions.  You can have personal transactions in a Quicken business account, and business transactions in a Quicken personal account.

It all comes down to the Quicken criteria for determining which transactions are "business transactions" - and that criteria does not take account type into consideration.

-JP

JoelC

@mshiggins

You're correct when you say the "Your Business Status chart is failing to pick up everything ...", but I believe you may have missed my point: Your Business Status is "failing to pick up" non-business transactions - and that is what it should do. It is correct.

It is the amount in the upper right that is picking up everything (it is including non-business transactions) - and it should not be doing that. It is wrong.

I will politely disagree as:

i) The "Your Business Status" is failing to pick up a business transaction (ie.e, the missing transaction is in business account, has a business category and has a business tag).

ii) Thus [based on i)] it is the mouse over amount that is wrong and top right corner amount that is correct.

While this is opposite to your obvservations, I just now dug into the report to confirm this!

In fact, designating a Quicken account as a business account has no effect on the treatment of its transactions.  You can have personal transactions in a Quicken business account, and business transactions in a Quicken personal account.

Good to know and much appreciated.

Arctic Hare

There was some excellent sleuth work done in this thread to determine the root cause of the reporting discrepancy. I'm wondering whether the same sleuths might be able to solve the discrepancy issue I've documented in this thread:

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7944637/discrepancy-in-unrealized-gains-in-lifetime-overview-net-worth-report

JoelC

@Arctic Hare apologies but I cannot assist on this ad the Canadian version, which is what I am running, does not have that report (or, at the very least, that I can find).

Arctic Hare

The (new) Lifetime Overview (net worth) report can be found in the Business & Personal Canadian version under Reports —> Net Worth & Balances —> Lifetime Overview.

JoelC

@Arctic Hare got it. Give me a a little while and I can / will dog in. Juts need to find the tme.