How can I set up an RRSP account in USD

rickpwilson · January 13

When I create an RRSP investment account it allows me to select the currency, USD and open a USD account. But, when I EDIT/Delete the account the account details shows it being in CDN $.

If I set it up as a brokerage account it works fine. However an RRSP is not a brokerage account so this isn't a solution.

I have another USD RRSP account that I have had for years and double checking its parameters confirms it is set as an RRSP and it is in US currency.

Classic Business and Personal R53.26 Build 27.1.53.26

Arctic Hare · January 14

I switched to using the Brokerage account type for all my RRSPs long ago. It is so long ago that I don't recall all the limitations with the RRSP account type, but I recall that there was not need for, or benefit to using the RRSP account type and sometimes I needed the Brokerage account type. I haven't tested you scenario, so I don't know if I get the same result as you, but what is your concern with using the Brokerage account type.

One issue that I vaguely recall with the RRSP account type was that Quicken seemed to assume is related to one's place of my employment and none of my RRSPs have employer contributions. Even if mine did, that could still be handled by the Brokerage account type.

In summary, unless you know of a reason why using a brokerage account would be problematic - and this works fine for me - I suggest simply taking that path.

You can mark the Brokerage account as "tax deferred", which is really what is important about a RRSP. If there are other compelling reasons why you need the RRSP account type, I'm curious to learn what those are.

rickpwilson · January 14

There are a couple reasons I would like the RRSP account in USD.

The account bar displays the Brokerage account separately from the registered accounts so the USD RRSP account is not in with the registered accounts in the account bar.
I have another RRSP account which works fine. Something is broken because you used to be able to refine an RRSP account as USD.

Chris_QPW · January 14

I suspect that this is something that was broken when they merged the Canadian branch into the US branch a year or so ago.

But like @Arctic Hare said I think using a brokerage account set to tax deferred is probably fine. But you might also want to change the Account Intent to "Retirement" on the Account Details → Display Options tap. That moves it slightly on the Account bar to after the line between Investment and Retirement.

One has to even wonder why a given account needs an account type. In some cases, people think that kind of setting is much more "powerful" than it truly is. And might even cause problems like this.

When you start to "narrow" the account type, you start to make assumptions about it, limiting its functionality. Let's face it there aren't any Canadian programmers. In the case of Windows there probably aren't even any US programmers! So, what is going to happen, and you see it in the Canadian version all the time is "Well I think this RRSP is like the US 401K…" I notice that @Arctic Hare he thought that one of the problems was that it assumes an employer-based account, that would be a US 401K account as opposed to an IRA account. And I think the main reason for this kind of separation is because they need to keep the tax entries for the person and the spouse separated.

There are other account types like the Roth IRA, tax deferred, but because it was funded with after tax money (and its special rules) unlike the IRA/401K money withdrawn from a Roth IRA isn't taxed. Where would that come up? I think the only place this comes up is in the Lifetime Planner.

Over in the US threads there is a call for HSA(Heath Savings Account) account type as if the account type is some kind of magic. The BIG problem is that HSA accounts can be either just a simple savings account or an investment account. Just giving it a new account type isn't going to magically make it any easier to work with.

Arctic Hare · January 14

All (seven) of my RRSP accounts are grouped together because they are all mapped to "Retirement" versus "Investment" - below the line as described by @Chris_QPW. So, it is possible to group the RRSP accounts even if don't use Quicken's RRSP account type.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, an investment account can be all of "RRSP", "Investment", and "Brokerage" in the real world (outside) Quicken.

I'm of the view that the only reason the "RRSP" account type exists is it was Quicken's attempt to put a Canadian skin on Quicken to sell a Canadian version. The RRSP account type has much in common with other Canadian features in that it doesn't properly and completely align to the full range of financial products available in Canada. Again, I've found it is best to simply ignore the RRSP account type and use the account types that are present in the US version - there is no downside in my view.

If you stick with the account types found in the US version it is much more likely that you won't encounter issues and/or any issues will get fixed more quickly.

If you feel you really need the RRSP account type then posting here is not going to get a resolution. Use the Report A Problem feature built into Quicken to report it AND call Quicken Support and walk through the issue with them on the phone or chat. Unfortunately, issues reported here in the Community rarely translate into bug reports unless one or both of the other approaches are also followed.

rickpwilson · January 15

I was figuring out what to do next, there is definitely a problem because it is not working as expected or at least as it did in the past. So I was editing the Brokerage account particulars and when I set the Tax Deferred switch I noticed a blue button that said Convert to RRSP? so I clicked it and low and behold it converted the account to an RRSP and it kept the US currency. So it still works, you just have to fiddle around to get there.

Thanks for your attention and suggestions.

Arctic Hare · January 16

The irony of all this is that using the "RRSP" account type doesn't provide any unique functionality. It is nothing more than lipstick.

JoelC · January 16

@rickpwilson

I'm of the view that the only reason the "RRSP" account type exists is it was Quicken's attempt to put a Canadian skin on Quicken to sell a Canadian version. The RRSP account type has much in common with other Canadian features in that it doesn't properly and completely align to the full range of financial products available in Canada. Again, I've found it is best to simply ignore the RRSP account type and use the account types that are present in the US version - there is no downside in my view.
If you stick with the account types found in the US version it is much more likely that you won't encounter issues and/or any issues will get fixed more quickly.

I too am Canadian and I am in complete agreement with @Arctic Hare 's above comment.

The more you keep things aligned with the US the easier you will have it!

Chris_QPW · January 17

Does Canada have any account types where the account is tax free?

In the case of a US account for a Roth IRA the deal is you fund it with after tax dollars and then no withdraws are taxed (including any gains). So, in reality this is a "tax free" account, but the developers "took the easy way out".

Instead of creating another setting like tax free they left it at tax deferred, and then what they have to do is in places that deal with taxes like the Lifetime Planner they have to look at the account type to decide what to do.

But other than grouping different account types like Spending, Savings, Investments, this is about the only case I can think of that the account type is actually used for anything special. The magic is in the "tax deferred" setting, and that isn't even that special, what it mostly does is tell Quicken not to include tax deferred accounts in the tax reporting reports/views and such by default.

The reason for posting is because in another thread someone was using a regular category report and expecting the securities in an IRA not to be counted as taxable dividends.

And it is sort of reminded me of this thread. There are a lot of things like this where people think that some setting or such is more powerful than it really is. In truth understanding the fundamentals of what Quicken is really doing points out that most of these are more "convenience" features, but nothing that they user couldn't have done for themselves with the real fundamental features.

Arctic Hare · January 17

Canada has the following (non-exhaustive):

TFSA - Tax Free Savings Account

RRSP - Registered Retirement Saving Plan (not all of which are plans incidentally) - which is tax deferred not tax free

RESP - Registered Education Saving Plan - essentially tax free if used for intended purpose

LIRA - Locked-in Retirement Account, which is another type of tax deferred account.

Chris_QPW · January 17

Thanks @Arctic Hare .

For the TFSA, how is that handled in Quicken?

Is it just like a regular savings account and when you get interest you just categorize it using one that doesn't have a tax line?

JoelC · January 17

@Chris_QPW om the subject of TFSAs:

i) Yes and no, it is more akin to brokerage account / savings account (i.e., you can hold GIC, securities, etc. but there are restrictions). The annual contributions are subject to limited and are NOT tax deductible but the growth is tax free.

ii) I have it setup as a brokerage account because I hold securities in mine.

I hope that helps.

Chris_QPW · January 17

Do you mark it tax deferred to keep it out of the tax reports?

For reference, one of the reasons the US HSA (Health Saving Accounts) are such a pain to implement in Quicken and I think people are expecting "miracles" where they can just set a given type and it will work, is because they can in fact be like a regular savings account or a brokerage account, and maybe even mix the two.

If you are using tax deferred to keep it out of the tax reports it sounds like if the Canadian version ever got the Lifeplanner they would have to do the same as the US Roth accounts.

JoelC · January 17

@Chris_QPW I keep it out of all tax reports because it is tax free (i.e., it is not a tax deferral, it is no tax ever). I suppose one could look at it as permanent deferral! :)

For reference, one of the reasons the US HSA (Health Saving Accounts) are such a pain to implement in Quicken and I think people are expecting "miracles" where they can just set a given type and it will work, is because they can in fact be like a regular savings account or a brokerage account, and maybe even mix the two.

And this is exactly what it is like and I would bet that most people are holding cash or GICs.

Chris_QPW · January 17

The more I think about it, the more I think Quicken should have a "tax free" setting. You have these different "account types" TFSAs, Roth, HSA, and in reality, the major feature to them is that they are tax free.

Everyone seems to be caught up in the account types being lined up exactly with what the world calls them instead of what their fundamental differences are.

For a case where the type really does matter, that would be a US 401K account.

Look at all this extra information that is needed:

And to top it off they use a hidden "tax impact" account to record amount contributed to the right category.

This is a real need for a new account type unlike the other "lipstick" account types.

It is ironic that there is a Tax deferred setting because there isn't such a thing as a 401K account that isn't tax deferred.

JoelC · January 17

This is a real need for a new account type unlike the other "lipstick" account types.

I am in complete agreement.

It is ironic that there is a Tax deferred setting because there isn't such a thing as a 401K account that isn't tax deferred.

Is a 401K not tax deferred as you pay tax when you draw money out of it, do you not?

Arctic Hare · January 17

I use the "Brokerage" account type for my TFSAs because they are Brokerage accounts that hold a mix of fixed income and tradable securities, particularly ETFs. The weird thing is - in the Canadian version of Quicken - if you choose TFSA as your account type, the account that it creates is actually of type "IRA". So, it seems to me that the Canadian TFSA account type is merely a temporary label for a USA account type. Once the account is set up, it has magically transformed into an account type that has no meaning in the Canadian context. So, I'm happy to stick with "Brokerage", which is correct, and include the "TFSA" in the account name.

JoelC · January 17

I use the "Brokerage" account type for my TFSAs because they are Brokerage accounts that hold a mix of fixed income and tradable securities, particularly ETFs. The weird thing is - in the Canadian version of Quicken - if you choose TFSA as your account type, the account that it creates is actually of type "IRA". So, it seems to me that the Canadian TFSA account type is merely a temporary label for a USA account type. Once the account is set up, it has magically transformed into an account type that has no meaning in the Canadian context. So, I'm happy to stick with "Brokerage", which is correct, and include the "TFSA" in the account name.

Agreed, we are doing the same thing.

Chris_QPW · January 17

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20410930#Comment_20410930

401K (and 403b, which are for government) are basically the same as IRA accounts. There are even "Traditional" and Roth ones just like IRAs. The main differences are 401K are "employer" sponsored. The contributions come right out of the paycheck. And it is possible for the employer to kick in some more (this is the "matching" in the dialog I posted).

For "Traditional" both 401K and IRA the contributions from the employee are before tax. So, their tax advantage is that you are reducing your taxes for that year and its gains aren't taxed until you withdraw it. It is taxed at your current tax rate at that time. Whatever the employer kicks in isn't counted for taxes (going in), but like everything else is when it comes out.

The Roth ones are after tax contributions (except for employer matched which is never taxed), but not taxed after that, even the gains.

There is a rare thing where people can actually put after tax money into a Traditional IRA, but the main reason it is rare is because you have to somehow keep track of these amounts going in and subtract them from the cost basis when sold. Very complicated and I never really look much into it, and I know Quicken can't handle it correctly.

401K accounts an IRAs are so close in nature, that when a person leaves a given job, they can rollover the 401K into an IRA account with basically not changes except what securities they might be able to invest in. Oh, that is another difference 401Ks are typically very restrictive in what securities you can invest in. The employer along with the broker they pick to handle choose what securities are available.

It is also possible to rollover 401K accounts from your past employer to your new one.

JoelC · January 18

@Chris_QPW Appreciate the information sharing.

smayer97 · January 18

Note, the following are the closest Canadian version of US plans (each with own set of comparable, and not so comparable, rules):

GIC → CD

RRSP → 401K

LIRA → 401K, typically created from converting an employer funded RRSP after leaving a company.

RESP → 529

TFSA → Roth IRA

Therefore, for TFSA I find using IRA a better choice because Quicken treats all growth as tax free. Using Brokerage you have to then manually designate tax free qualified investments

(Note, I used Mac version, still 2007).

Arctic Hare · January 18

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20411189#Comment_20411189

I don't need to adjust the tax settings in Quicken because I don't use Quicken for tax information other than for tracking my wife's professional fees and expenses (which are, obviously, not investments). I let TurboTax download everything else from CRA. I use Quicken to guide management of the investments, but not to account for tax related information.

smayer97 · January 18

I get it. I n my case, I use Quicken to generate reports of taxable income and manually enter the data into TurboTax (QM2007 does not have built-in tax reports).

JoelC · January 19

@smayer97

Therefore, for TFSA I find using IRA a better choice because Quicken treats all growth as tax free. Using Brokerage you have to then manually designate tax free qualified investments

I dont understand this and must be missing something because on the Canadian version there is no choice to choose IRA as an account type. What am I missing?

JoelC · January 19

@Arctic Hare

I don't need to adjust the tax settings in Quicken because I don't use Quicken for tax information other than for tracking my wife's professional fees and expenses (which are, obviously, not investments). I let TurboTax download everything else from CRA. I use Quicken to guide management of the investments, but not to account for tax related information.

Agreed, I too don't use Quicken for tax information. I use it solely to guide management of the investments, but not to account for tax related information.

Arctic Hare · January 19

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20411212#Comment_20411212

@JoelC The difference is @smayer97 is using Quicken Mac 2007, which is both USA and CND. It will have different account types from the Quicken Canadian Business & Personal that you and I are using. In our case, choosing "TFSA" account type ultimately creates an "IRA" account. Whereas @smayer97 simply picks the "IRA" account type from the start.

JoelC · January 19

@Arctic Hare

@JoelC The difference is @smayer97 is using Quicken Mac 2007, which is both USA and CND. It will have different account types from the Quicken Canadian Business & Personal that you and I are using. In our case, choosing "TFSA" account type ultimately creates an "IRA" account. Whereas @smayer97 simply picks the "IRA" account type from the start.

Appreciated, as i) I missed that subtle point about using QMac 2007 and ii) I did not realize that QMac 2007 was for both CAD and US.

Thank you.

smayer97 · January 19

All QMac products are "US & Can", or as was pointed out, simply the US version with varying levels CAN "lipstick" per version.

in QM2007, there is no RRSP option. Hence IRA… but as also pointed out, that is exactly what Quicken does when applying CAN "lipstick" for QWin-CA, and I suspect QMac.

BTW, IRA is still a "brokerage" register, simply with tax-free or tax-deferral automatically applied.

JoelC · January 19

@smayer97 appreciated and much thanks!

I learnt something new today.

How can I set up an RRSP account in USD

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