_UnrlzdGain not appearing in net worth/account balance reports

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Jon_sacks
Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
edited June 4 in Reports (Windows)

Quicken Classic R56.9/27.1.56.9

I choose not to link my brokerage accounts to Quicken. Instead I make a month end entry to the account to post an _UnrlzdGain. The Quicken Account Bar shows the correct balances but none of the reports show the _UnrlzdGain. This includes the balance sheet, account balance, net worth, Itemized Categories, etc.

Other posts have talked about checking "Include Unrealized Gains" in the Advanced tab of the report, but this doesn't exist in this version on any of these reports.

Suggestions?

Additionally, in trouble shooting this I changed the tax treatment for _UnrlzdGain to a valid tax account and they show in the income statement (still not in the net worth, balances, etc.), but now that I changed it, I can no longer edit it to remove the tax treatment for this account!

Note: Validate File comes back with no errors

Answers

  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    An _UnrlzdGain is a transaction. The Net Worth report doesn't show transactions, only the amounts in the accounts on the as-of date.

    Are you saying that the balances in your brokerage accounts are incorrect by the amount(s) of those transactions?

    Does the as-of date of the report include the transaction date of those txn that you posted?

    And, there is NO proper tax treatment for an UnrlzdGain, since you haven't actually experienced it. RlzdGains/Losses have tax treatments … but not UnrlzdGains/Losses.

    Lastly, the only "tax treatment" for an account ("Tax Deferred" yes or no) is set via TOOLS, Account List, click EDIT adjacent to the account name. It's on the "General" tab of the Account Details dialog. BUT Gains/Losses (Rlzd or not) are categories (not accounts), and tax treatment of those are set via TOOLS, Category List, clicking the very faint Clock icon to the far right of the particular category and clicking Tax Reporting.

    Q user since February, 1990. DOS Version 4
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Business & Personal
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP

  • Jon_sacks
    Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
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    In the Account "Brokerage 1", there is an opening balance and at each month end, I enter a transaction _UnrlzdGain to reflect the change in the account value (the gain is unrealized, but I want it reflected on a balance sheet) i.e. "Mark to Market".

    Net Worth Report and account balances shows $193,975.89 ($190,142.00-$391.25-$574.86+$4800.00).

    $190,142.00 is properly displayed in the account bar.

    But $193,975 is on the report (Account Balances)

    Yes, the dates are all find (include all dates).

    I know there is no tax treatment for Unrealized Gains, I was just trouble shooting to see if it would include it on the reports (business) if there was a category. Quicken allowed me to edit the account and put a tax treatment in (Schedule C Sales), but now there is no "edit" in the drop down to remove it!

  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4
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    "Other posts have talked about checking "Include Unrealized Gains" in the Advanced tab of the report, but this doesn't exist in this version on any of these reports."

    What version are you using? As far as I know that should be there in all versions:

    I made a test entry, a MiscInc Action, using " _UnrlzdGain" as the Category and it did show up properly in the Net Worth report with the "Include unrealized gains" box checked. If I unchecked this box then this test entry wasn't included in the report.

    Is the Category _UnrlzdGain selected under the "Categories" tab of the report's customization?

  • Jon_sacks
    Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
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    As previously stated, the option does not appear for "include unrealized gains"

    And _UnrlzdGain is in the selection as wll as Include Transactions with any categories

  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4
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    @Jon_sacks Which Q product are you running? "Quicken Classic" is the generic name for ALL current Q products.

    And, it appears that you created your own _UnrlzdGain category. You probably shouldn't have used the underscore prefix on that category … since that character has special meaning in Q.

    Try editing the category list to remove the underscore and see what happens.

    You also don't need the 2 Capital Gain/Loss categories that you're showing in your list … because those items (with the underscore) already exist in Q and will be automatically used whenever you sell a security.

    Q user since February, 1990. DOS Version 4
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Business & Personal
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP

  • Jon_sacks
    Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
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    I DID NOT create the category and I can't edit it (see original post), I did try testing adding a tax treatment to it just to see if it appears on the report. It did add it to my income statement, but now I'm stuck with no ability to edit it.

  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Sorry about the misunderstanding. I had that category hidden, and didn't realize such, so I thought that you had created it.

    In your category list (CTRL-C) try selecting the category and then clicking on the very faint Clock icon to the far right which should bring up a sub-menu with EDIT as an option.

    And, again, WHAT Q PRODUCT and what BUILD? This info is needed to try to isolate what might be causing your issue.

    Q user since February, 1990. DOS Version 4
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Business & Personal
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP

  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4
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    You are using the special category _UnrlzdGain in an idiosyncratic way that Quicken does not expect to see.

    In normal usage, you would have one or more securities in your brokerage account which would fluctuate in value. Quicken would see those fluctuations as unrealized gains and losses.

    Since you appear to have no actual securities in your Quicken data (and you're using an Asset register instead of an Investing register to boot), Quicken is not presenting you with that category. If you were to create your own category to track these changes in value, that should appear correctly.

    Pro tip: if you hold Ctrl+Shift while right-clicking an uneditable category in the list, you can edit it.

    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Biz & Personal Subscription (US) on Win10 Pro.

  • Jon_sacks
    Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
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    At top of thread: Quicken Classic R56.9/27.1.56.9

    See the screen shot above (again here) that shows that edit option is not in the context drop down (right click) or in the icon drop down.

  • Jon_sacks
    Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
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    The Ctrl+Shift worked. Thank you.

    For the category, I'm guessing that anything with an underscore should not be used as it may not behave like other categories? One would think I could add to an asset an Unrealized Gain or Loss, no different to when your home value increases, it's a paper transaction for the balance sheet, not an income event.

    If I do as you suggest, I would create the two categories "UnrealizedGain" & "UnrealizedLoss" and just put no tax treatment on them so they do not appear on the P&L for tax purposes or create a custom report for tax purposes that ignores them.

    What is the proper way to do what I was trying to accomplish? If they had been specified as "Investment Accounts" would it properly treat the _UnrlzdGain in the account value?

    Thanks for your help.

  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    They are asking if you are using: Starter, Deluxe, Premier, or Business and Personal.

    Beyond that, I agree with @Rocket J Squirrel that your use of _UnrlzdGain is non-standard, though I don’t understand its misbehavior that you are seeing. I think a more appropriate category might be something like ‘Mkt Adjust’. Alter the three transaction categories and see if the behavior is different.

  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    "For the category, I'm guessing that anything with an underscore should not be used as it may not behave like other categories?"

    I used the Category _UnrlzdGain in a straight Asset Account and it worked just fine. As with the Investment Account test I'd performed above its appearance or non-appearance on the Net Worth report depended on that "Include realized gain" box being checked. That's the source of your problem. It might be a data corruption issue in your file or some problem with the install of Quicken.

  • Jon_sacks
    Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
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    This was an asset category, that it worked for you is strange as it, doesn't work for me. I modified and created an income and expense UnrealizedGain and UnrealizedLoss and that seems to have worked. I think the answer is to stay away from an _ (undesrcore) account.

  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    "This was an asset category, that it worked for you is strange as it, doesn't work for me."

    As I said its appearance in the Net Worth depended on having that box checked. Since you don't have that box Quicken is treating that box as "unchecked."

  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Also I see that you are using the new and not quite ready for prime time reports interface.

    I suggest the you go to Edit > Preferences > Early access and un-check both of the boxes. Restart Quicken and see if that fixes the issue with the Include unrealized gains option not appearing on the Advanced tab.

    As others have noted, the _UnrlzdGain Category is not normally used for transactions. It looks like other Categories but it is normally computed for investing holdings based on the cost basis and current market value of the selected holdings on a particular date.

    QWin Premier subscription
  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4
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    @Jon_sacks

    What is the proper way to do what I was trying to accomplish?

    There's not a short answer to that question. I suggest you read the Investing section of Quicken Help.

    https://help.quicken.com/display/WIN/Investing

    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Biz & Personal Subscription (US) on Win10 Pro.

  • Jeff76
    Jeff76 Member ✭✭✭
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    For what it is worth…… _UnrlzdGain category only shows up when I enter a transaction if I check the "show hidden Categories" box. I'm hazy how it was hidden or how to unhide, or if it relates somehow to this issue. But it is the only category that seems hidden.

  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The Category List can display a Hide column. Click the upper-right gear in the Category List and enable the Hide column if it isn't showing already.

    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Biz & Personal Subscription (US) on Win10 Pro.

  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Aha!. For some silly reason all the special investing Categories are hidden by default. To un-hide, got to Tools > Category list, check the Show hidden box, and un-check Hide for the ones you want to expose.

    Again, I would not recommend using that special Category for transactions you enter; create your own Category for market adjustments rather than using _UnrlzdGain.

    QWin Premier subscription
  • Jon_sacks
    Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
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    Just to recap on this thread as perhaps Quicken will pick up on it.

    1. _Unrlzdgain if used will not calculate into the account balances in the current release using the new reporting tool as the option in Advanced to include Unrealized Gains does not exist.
    2. If you add a tax treatment to the _Unrlzldgain field, it negates the ability to remove it, the only option is Shift+Ctrl+left click to bring up the edit option (I'm going to bet this is true with other internal categories that are "hidden" and meant for internal use) .

    I am satisfied with the solution to add a new category for "Mark to Market" as an income category (you could also create two, mark to market gain, mark to market loss if you want to put losses in your expense section of reporting) to be able to produce an income statement that includes your unrealized gains/losses. This is simple to do in Account Balances setting an interval to see how wealth is building.

    Clearly Quicken attempts to allow you to manage investing in "investment" accounts, but it is not well behaved and gets muddied by a large amount of transactions and attempting to manage LIFO or FIFO is time consuming and cumbersome.

  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 5
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    I'm not sure what you mean by "not well behaved". Some brokerages have more problems with downloaded transactions than others, and it does get complicated if you do a lot of short term trading, options, etc.

    In order to accurately track unrealized gains and losses, you must know the cost basis and current market value for the securities in the account. Generally this means you must have recorded all the transactions accurately. But it sounds like you are just trying to record the change in the account value from month to month. That might include income, money added to or removed from the account, realized gains from sales, etc.

    Another option for investing accounts is to switch to Simplified tracking mode. This is intended for users who are interested in tracking their investing account balances but not the cost basis, tax implications, etc.

    This does not track all the individual transactions, but either manually or by downloading, it tracks the securities and number of shares you hold and the account balance over time.

    There is a global option to enable Simplified mode at Edit > Preferences > Investments and a setting for each account on its Edit account details page.

    QWin Premier subscription
  • Jon_sacks
    Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
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    Over the years I have had multiple issues with attempting to track stocks, including the problem with FIFO lots in the sale transaction not properly being updated in Quicken to the purchase lots throwing off the cost basis. Short transactions and options trading became a mess for quicken to handle, it didn't understand the transactions downloaded (i.e. short sale didn't have a original purchase). I have had corruption in the files after downloads and found myself constantly running file verifications to find orphan lots. I gave up and that is why I simply want to mark to market in aggregate by account at the end of the month. If Quicken was somehow an integrated trading platform (i.e. initiate the transaction in Quicken and then upload to the Broker), I might consider it, but I have a much higher level of sophistication in my trading platforms.

    Maybe this works somehow now, but I can't even rely on my bank account and credit card downloads from major banks like Chase and Amex (no connectivity for 6 months), I'm not going to start again to try and get Investment tracking up. This episode I just experienced with simple reporting is an example of how this program has never been ready for prime time.

  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 5
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    This is a @Jon_sacks problem, not a Quicken problem. I suffer from none of your issues. Investments work perfectly for me, as do bank accounts and credit cards. I certainly observe bugs and quirks in QWin, but nothing like you describe.

    Your clearly evident misunderstanding of QWin has led you down a path of belief that your problems are Quicken problems. You are now fighting against Quicken instead of working with it. Sorry it hasn't worked out for you. Good luck with whatever you do in the future to track your finances.

    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Biz & Personal Subscription (US) on Win10 Pro.

  • QuickUserPSP
    QuickUserPSP Member, Windows Beta Beta
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    @Jon_sacks take a look at Quicken Simplifi. It might work better for you as it treats Investment accounts is a similar way that you are attempting to do in Quicken Classic.

  • Jon_sacks
    Jon_sacks Member ✭✭
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    Rocket J Squirrel I think you really have drank the cool-aid. Quicken does not deny my issues, they have been crediting me back now for almost 8 months on the subscription since they broke on-line banking. That the released reporting tool is not ready for prime-time with no warning is clearly a Quicken problem.