Degraded Billers June 16th?

Bob.

@Quicken Can anyone confirm that American Express and Hulu are degraded? If they are, I can stop looking locally for my issues. If not, I have something else going on.

Thanks!

Bob.

OK, if I can't ask and find out here, how can I find out if a biller is degraded so I stop beating my head againt the monitor trying to add a biller that used to work as expected? @Quicken Anja mentioned there is no way to do a sticky post of currently degraded and I understand why. But some way to check would seem to be a big customer benefit.

Thanks.

Quicken Anja

Hello @Bob.,

Both billers do not currently show a degraded status. Both, in fact, show a Healthy status and should connect.

Can you elaborate and tell us more about what is going on?

Thank you!

Bob.

Sure thing. Thanks for checking.

Both of these have corrupted my main LIVE file where all the other EWC+ billers then show as no longer valid, please remove and readd. So I try (often) adding these to my TEST file. They both add, both show Quicken is stioll adding yada yada to you account but no new bills to add - which really means there is a problem in my experience. Neither EVER grabs a bill.

When clicking the "!" on Hulu, it says needs more information. Fixit takes me to reauthoring the accoutn with a sent code as well. Add, rinse, repeat.

Verify and repair shows orphans and issues and removes BOTH Billers from my file. Over and over.

I was hoping they were degraded :(

I always panic when I try in my LIVE file and they corrupt the other billers when they fail.

What do you suggest @Quicken Anja ?

Bob.

@Quicken Anja Just ran a test.

I created a brand new test file. Added an offline cash accounrt and went to add billers.

Amex still "looks" broken.

Hulu added perefectly with JUST login and Password.

Went to my "real" test file. Deleted Hulu. Deleted a Hulu reminder. Verified and repaired online billers.

Added Hulu. after login and passowrd and connecting wanted an emailed code. New test file never asked for this!

Broken.

How can that be?

Bob.

OK, JUST fixed my really big issue being unable to connect to Wells Fargo Bank. Off for the weekend. But would love to fix this one @Quicken Anja . Its the last two broken online billers at the moment. My last open issue :) Willng to try anything.

Enjoy the weekend. Will checkin here early Monday morning….

Quicken Anja

Thank you for the additional information.

Can you please provide the name of the data file you are experiencing these Online Billers issues in? This way I can check the internal error you're getting for them. However, I'm currently showing 3 different files that were most recently accessed within the last 24 hours.

Thank you!

Bob.

Thanks!

NO file gets the AMEX biller working.

Hulu Broken in TEST. Neither Hulu nor Amex have been tried in my Live (2022) file in several weeks as it breaks all Chase, Citi and other EWC and EWC+ Online Billers. This file should show both errors.

My newest test file is Wells-Billers if I recall how I named it. There Hulu works first try, but not AMEX.

Just an aside Anja, the developers claim "fixes" in online billers recently, but Citi and Chase still come in .01 short of the amount due in Online Billers even when correct in reminders! I do believe other issues with Online Billers persist but have not yet had coffee :) For now, Amex and Hulu are the most important issue. Amex a bit more than Hulu which rarely changes monthly amount due.

Thanks for helping!!

Quicken Anja

Thank you for providing those details.

I performed an internal refresh on both Amex and Hulu in the file titled "Test". Please wait 48 hours, then try refreshing them on your end and see if anything changes.

Check back and let us know the outcome then! Thank you.

Bob.

I shall do it. Thanks!

Do you want me to update billers, refrsh each Amex and Hulu or delete both and readd? Just to be sure what to do.

Hoping it works so we could do both on my LIVE file.

Thanks again.

Quicken Anja

After the 48 hours have passed, do a normal update billers on them first to refresh. If it fails, then remove and re-add.

Bob.

Will do and report.

BTW, I would often try a Review and Repair and orphans., etc found, removed and biller removed and readded from that process. I trust what you did will do more than that. Fingers crossed.

Bob.

Hi @Quicken Anja OK, must be 48 hours :) Off to try….

First a OSU with updating billers: Amex and Hulu stil show "connecting to your biller" blue exclamation icons.

Update ALL from Bills and Income tab: Wow. Amex popped up this time! Amazing!!

Hulu: Biller requires attention. Click fix, etc… I click FixIt. Looong wait…..It wants to relogin plus emailed authorization code. This has happened often. I'll do it. Usually takes forever. Rarely, if ever worked where validation code was needed. Rarely DID work when only login and password needed.

Waiting……..

Got the "still connecting….". Sometimes updating all here helps. so trying that….

In a loop. Will try as I am here and who knows…. Same message.

Only one thing left to do. I will delete Hulu, review and repair, readd Hulu….

2 out of use notices removed.

Adding Hulu. Now not asking for validation code.

Now it wants a code….Authentication in progress (sic) ….Loooong long wait….Gotta be 5 minutes or so now….Six…

Same error message.

So….can you reset American Express for me in my live file and tell me when to try? I will have to add it to billers there as it is not there now, so will do an OSU and then add, if you agree.

I do not want to try Hulu in live until I have some confidence it works in TEST.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks.

~Bob

Bob.

Hi @Quicken Anja

Just checking to see if you had time to look at the previous message.

Thanks.

Quicken Anja

Yes, go ahead and add Amex to your main data file and I will perform an internal refresh for it there.

As for Hulu, since it did not resolve the issue, at this point, you would need to contact Quicken Support for further assistance and escalation if they see fit.

Bob.

Thanks.

OK. I worry a little adding Amex before something is done as it can mess up the other EWC billers. But I guess I will do a backup later today and try.

Odd on Hulu, no? It DOES work in the Wells-Biller file. But nowhere else.

Bob.

OK, worst nightmare:

OK, @Quicken Anja I now have restored and added and AMEX again seeemingly ok but "needs attention". Can we try a reset on your end LIVE file AMEX? I'll try once and hope it does not invalidate all those again.

Chris_QPW

But I guess I will do a backup later today and try.

From what I have seen, this is a useless "action" for this system, as in it will not allow for "recovering" anything.

People tend to believe that they can backup they data file and if something goes wrong just restore it and everything will be OK.

That hasn't been the case for a lot of years now. One has to understand that these days your "data" isn't just in your data file. It is in the data file, the Quicken Cloud dataset, Intuit servers, and in this case the third-party billing system server.

Once things get "out of sync" the "fix" is going to be to wipe out the "conflicting data" and start over.

You have a problem with Sync to Mobile/Web?

Reset data

You have a problem with a connection to the financial institution (restored from an old backup), delete and recreate.

You have a problem with your billers?

Set them up again.

You have a problem with your data file?

Validate and repair and hope they conflicts it finds and removes doesn't remove data that you need.

Bob.

Tis mostly true, Chris. FWIW I do not sync anything mobile or to the cloud "on purpose" I do know that restoring does a cloud sync.

My biggest puzzle is what some billers work flawlessly in some test files and then not any other. And a test file with one biller working might have another fail with the exact opposite in that combination in another file. Woudl love to solve the root of that.

Chris_QPW

I would have to assume that the reason it behaves so differently in different files is due to its complexity. That is another way of saying I believe there are bugs in both at the server and the Quicken program level.

EDIT: and how those two system interact with each other.

Bob.

Should not be complexity, Chris. Both TEST files are very simple. Offline cash, maybe one credit card account and 2-3 billers (2 of the 3 the same) and no remonders. A simple test file. In 1, biller a workd but not biller B. In 2 Biller B works but not biller A. Same Billers!

Anyway, right now hoping @Quicken Anja Will get American Express working in live and then maybe tomorrow find time to see if Support can help with Hulu. then another month of seeing what works :)

Chris_QPW

I wasn't referring to your data file or use case, I was referring to the overall system.

For instance, if one compares Direct Connect bill pay to Quicken Bill Manager it is easy to see how the Direct Connect ones is much simpler. Direct Connect, Quicken (the program) talking directly to the one and only bill system using a standardized protocol that schedules a payment which is one transaction at the financial institution and one in Quicken. Quicken Bill Manager. There is the "bill" in Quicken, and maybe it is tied to a reminder, and then there is the payment information, and such, and then the actual transactions. Which all has to stay in sync with the third-party information. Which in turn has to schedule payments not at one financial institution, but at every "supported biller's website", most of which will not even have any kind of standard protocol for this operation.

UKR

@Bob.
you must really like fighting this never-ending windmill. Many banks and billers, in an attempt to better secure their computer systems from hackers, are no longer willing to support third-party data aggregators like Quicken, Intuit, etc.

To avoid missed or late payments I recommend you logon directly to the biller's website and authorize them to direct debit (aka PAC Draft, Autopay, APS, etc.) the next and all future payments from your checking account or a credit card.
Make the biller's computer system do all the work for you to make an electronic debit on the due date and you don't have to worry about being late, ever.

In Quicken unlink the bill and just record a scheduled reminder which does not execute as an online payment into your account register on or before the Due Date and before you download transactions from the bank or credit card containing the payment transactions. That will allow Quicken to match your register transaction to the downloaded data and not cause any further issues.

Bob.

Oh please @UKR . We've read your brilliant solution for fixing a broken feature of Quicken by not using Quicken. Dr. UKR, it hurts when I use Quicken. Don't use Quicken.

I do not consider the dozens and dozens of your posts like this to be helpful at all. Maybe someone does. But talk about tilting at windmills!

UKR

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20441028#Comment_20441028

Well, the pessimist in me does not see the Quicken Bill Manager to ever function without problems. Not now. Not ever. Why? Because more and more banks and billers close the doors to third party data aggregators, companies like Intuit and Quicken, pretending to be you and downloading information on your behalf.
Banks and billers want you to be the one who accesses their computer systems, not a third party or a hacker.

So, to work around any of these problems and to save my sanity I do not use Bill Manager.
Since time "B.I." (before the Internet was invented) I have set up almost all of my recurring payments as Direct Debit, PAC Draft, Autopay, APS, whatever the biller calls it. Using the biller's website once, I authorized the biller to electronically debit each payment directly from my checking or credit card account on due date. Now I can sit back, relax and wait for it to happen. Instead of having to arm-wrestle Bill Manager into making payment on time every month I let the billers computers do all the work for me.

Now, which solution do you think is better?

Quicken Anja

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20440971#Comment_20440971

@Bob. I went ahead and performed the internal refresh on the Amex biller in your main data file. Wait 48 hours again to attempt the refresh on your end.

Thank you!

Bob.

Thanks Anja. But I cannot wait 48 hours. Must use my file today!

Leaves me two choices:

1. Try today in 5 6 hours, or…
2. Delete Amex biller before update so it does not corrupt the billers again as above.

Thoughts?

Quicken Anja

In that case, you can go ahead and remove the biller for now.

Thank you!

Bob.

OK. Will do. And then….? Will what you did take effect if I try to add it back again in 48 hours? Or does it require repeating that and waiting 48 hours? If the latter, over a holiday weekend would work.

Thanks Anja.

Bob.

@Quicken Anja HAH! you need to know that HULU is now working in my TEST file. And AMex tere as well. So both should be able to work in LIVE I would think.

When would be a good time to try both in Live? Maybe late Friday afternoon? IAnd I assume I ned to add both before you make your adjustment?

About to remove AMEX now as i must use Quicken.

Thanks!

Bob.

Another HAH!

Deleted the Amex Biller. Reviewed and Repaired and 8 orphans, etc. Did OSU and now Amex Accounts are CC 505. Hoping its just a coincidence. These usually clear themselves. But a very odd coincidence kind of mocking me on this part of the adventure.

Will wait and try much later. All else ok.