Periodically disappearing Transfers creates orphans

xpok

Some process seems to be corrupting transfer transactions that were fine when I entered them. It only affects my transfers that are line items in Split transaction. Apologies for the long post…

BACKGROUND: I have many paycheck transaction that Split into other line items. Some of these line items are Transfers to another account e.g., [Retirement]

Everything works when I enter the paycheck Split transaction. The Retirement account receives the incoming transfer automatically as expected. The two transactions are linked by 'Go to transfer' correctly.

THE PROBLEM: But occassionally, I'll check historical transactions and note that the paycheck Split line has a BLANK instead of Transfer to [Retirement] for a bunch of transactions.

In the Retirement account, the incoming transfer is still there. But when I right-click it and 'Go to transfer', Quicken says that transaction no longer exists, essentially creating an 'orphaned transaction' in the Retirement account.

So far my only fix is to delete that orphaned Retirement transaction, and update the paycheck Split line item from blank to [Retirement] - basically a redo. It's a lot of effort to manually find and correct since I don't know what transactions are affected.

OTHER CONTEXT

On Aug 1, I have a backup where this problem was not present. The last backup I have was from Sep 5 where the problem appears across many transactions and other accounts. I updated Quicken software twice during that time. I recently turned on Quicken Web for syncing about the same time.

It seems to only happen to Split transfers (some but not all). It doesn't happen to non-split transfers (so far).

Quicken support said the only solution is to find the most recent backup and start restart from there as they said something corrupted the file. They said I could not escalate the issue to get more troubleshooting of the root cause.

So, I'm hoping

1. to see if others have this symptom or it's just me
2. if not just me, gather support for Quicken engineering to dive into this issue

Thanks

BTW my case seems similar to this one

Matching Transfer disappeared!

PrincetonBrat470

Aug 19, 2023

I tried to report this to Quicken, [Removed - Speculation]. I'll post it here and see where it goes. Below is as-composed for Quicken Support, [Removed - Speculation]:

Quicken reports erroneously:

1. A transfer from an investment account to a bank account, amount $5,330.16 was created. Both accounts have online connections thru the Online Center.
2. At a later date, I discovered the balance in the "From" account did not match the "real" account online, even though my Q reconciliation step offered no problems.
3. The Q receiving account shows the completed transfer
4. The Q "from" account does not show the "out-ing" transfer.
5. The "from" account shows an erroneous cash balance, $5,330.16 more than the investment company reports
6. When we do a "Reconcile" in each account, BOTH show that they are balanced,
   but the "from" account is overstated by $5,330.16,
   and does not indicate a difference between the Q account and the online account

Further examination:

1. The BANK account shows the received amount has cleared the bank, and has been reconciled as such
2. The Category shows the correct "from" account [RJ FARM D348]
3. If I choose to right-click, and select "Go to matching transfer ... Ctrl+Shift+X",
   Q tells me that "The transfer transaction is to an account that no longer exists in Quicken"
4. When I go to the "from" account, the transfer-out is not present,
   and the Cash Bal is overstated by the $5,330.16 amount.

I had this problem once before, again same two accounts involved. I believe I reported it then.

This time, I an reporting the problem before I try to resolve the problem.
Last time, I believe I had to delete the orphaned bank transaction, and re-enter it.
Doing that resolved the lost link.

This time, I will leave this alone for a bit and see if Quicken Support can offer some guidance.
My intent is to do a "Validate and Repair file" function under "File".
I will, of course, do a full backup first.

Having a transaction fragment, and offer invalid balances on account(s) is serious stuff, the sort of thing that will destroy confidence in the product.
I'd appreciate some form of response from Quicken.
I am a 20-year-plus user!

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Quicken Kristina

Hello @xpok,

To help troubleshoot this issue, please provide additional information. Does this happen only with transfers that are included as part of the split transaction in your paycheck? If so, do you use a paycheck reminder, input the paycheck split transaction into the register manually, or does it download from the financial institution as a split transaction? Did this behavior start after you turned on cloud sync? I can see you contacted Support about unsyncing a file from the cloud; are you doing that to see if that prevents the problem?

I look forward to your reply!

xpok

Hi- responses below

1) Does this happen only with transfers that are included as part of the split transaction in your paycheck?

Yes so far.

2) If so, do you use a paycheck reminder, input the paycheck split transaction into the register manually, or does it download from the financial institution as a split transaction?

It downloads from the financial institution and I have a memorized transaction with the split that auto matches. When the problem occurs sometimes there a bunch of historical transfers (not all) that are blanked. Also the memorized transaction split is sometimes blanked.

3) Did this behavior start after you turned on cloud sync? I can see you contacted Support about unsyncing a file from the cloud; are you doing that to see if that prevents the problem?

Not sure but both were recent. And yes I stopped syncing to eliminate that as a possible problem.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your reply,

Please let me know if the issue stops happening with sync turned off, since the troubleshooting is different depending on whether cloud sync is a factor in the issue or not.

Thank you!

xpok

Hi Kristina - over the last few years it happen at some point but hard for me to notice since it's on historical transactions and not all of them. So it's hard for me to even catch. Do you have any advice on how to better detect it? Or are there others out there who have also seen this problem?

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your reply,

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any shortcuts to detect when part of the transfer is orphaned. The issue you describe does sound very similar to a known issue where memorized transactions with split transactions that include transfers sometimes have the transfer disappear (CTP-9035). If having sync turned off prevents the issue you're seeing from happening, then you're most likely being impacted by the known issue.

Thank you!

xpok

So far no more issues after turning off sync. I guess I want use Quick Cloud sync but that's unfortunate, since it's a useful feature. I hope you are all able to find the issue and resolve it