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TurboTax Vs HR Block

robsquick

This is a continuation to a previous discussion about a discrepancy in tax return between HR Block and Turbotax. It was closed as I did not know Jacob responded:

Hello, Quicken / TurboTax brothers & sisters:

I've been using Quicken and TurboTax for years. This year I decided to do by TurboTax for 2024 and as a check, pay HR Block to run my tax return also. I simply wanted to know if I'm doing everything right in Turbo. Well, for some unknown reason, HR Block came up with amount due as $665 less than Turbo. I did a side-by-side comparison of both returns - every single line was identical. Every checkbox was equal on both returns. The only thing different is that HR Block used Form 1040-RS whereas Turbo used Form 1040. My understanding is 1040-RS is tailored for seniors so they can read the form easier but both should calculate Refund and Amount Due the same.

Anyone out there able to explain why these programs gave different results? I have not contacted HR Block yet to ask the same question; hoping someone here can answer it.

Thank you!!!

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jacobs Quicken Mac Subscription SuperUser, Mac Beta BetaApril 4

All lines on both 1040RS's are IDENTICAL…
These two forms are mirror images with respect to data entered. The only figure different is the Amount Due.

Something is still fishy here; $600 can't be "saved" just out of the blue. And it could just as well be that H&R Block's bottom line is the one which is wrong!

Could you answer the questions I asked above? Specifically…

• Line 15 (taxable income): you're saying this is the same on both returns, correct?

****** YES Both are $aaa.00 Equal to the penny

• Line 16 (Tax): is this different (by the $600) on the two returns?

****No. Both are $bbb.00. Equal to the penny!

— If not, which line is the first one where the numbers are different between the two returns?

**** None - all figures on both returns are identical

— If yes, in TurboTax, go to Forms and open the Form 1040/1040SR Worksheet. Scroll down to page 3 of the worksheet, just after line 15, where you'll find a "Tax Smart Worksheet". What boxes or lines are filled in on that worksheet? This spells out the method TurboTax used to calculate your tax.

**** Line 2 - "Tax Computation Worksheet (see instructions)"

**** Line H =ccc.00

Line 17 Amount from Schedule 2 line 3) also = &ccc.00 ******

Now I wonder if a paid too much using Turbo in previous years.

For what it's worth, I've used TT for many years. Starting last year, our financial adviser includes having a CPA firm prepare tax returns, but I still bought TT (a) to compare on my own, and (b) because I do my parents taxes and needed to buy it for that anyway. I can tell you the TT return and the professional CPA's returns are in full agreement.

So I think there's something you haven't unearthed yet which accounts for the difference. And it's worth hunting down because you don't know which return is wrong! That's why I'm trying to help you dig in to see where the discrepancy comes from.

Whys is there a difference in both programs? I can't explain it. HR Block rep couldn't explain it. And two CPA friends of mine can't explain it either. So I used the HR Block version since it was $600 cheaper.

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NotACPA

Quicken and Turbotax have been owned by separate companies for a number of years now.

I'd suggest that you ask this in the TTAX Support Forum

https://ttlc.intuit.com/turbotax-support/en-us/help-article/account-management/contact-turbotax/L2y9ZKpQB_US_en_US

jacobs

@robsquick Thanks for the follow up. And I'm still confused about where there is a difference between TurboTax and HR Block returns. 😂 (@NotACPA Since this conversation is in the Water Cooler section, it's fine that it's not about Quicken. And I really want to get to the final chapter and know the answer!)

• Line 16 (Tax): is this different (by the $600) on the two returns?

****No. Both are $bbb.00. Equal to the penny!

So you're saying that the TurboTax and HR Block returns both show you owe the same amount of tax (Line 16), right?

And further, there is no difference on any of the subsequent lines 17-23, so that your Total Tax (Line 24) is identical on both returns?

And further, your payments of withholding, estimated taxes, and credits on lines 25a through 33 are also identical?

And so is line 37 (Tax due) also identical?

You say "all figures on both returns are identical". If that's the case, then they both say you owe the same amount on line 37… and if the returns arrive at the same amount due on Line 37, then where is HR Block telling you owe $665 less? Limne 37 is what you owe; it can't be identical and different at the same time, so something in what you're saying isn't making sense! So I'm again asking: which lines on the two returns are different?

NotACPA

I simply thought that the OP might get more help in the TTAX forum where possible differences between 1040 and 1040-RS would be better known? Different tax tables, perhaps?

@robsquick EXACTLY what lines are different between the 1040 and the 1040-RS. AND, in TTAX you can prepare multiple tax returns ,,, so have you tried doing a 1040-RS return in TTAX?

jacobs

I simply thought that the OP might get more help in the TTAX forum where possible differences between 1040 and 1040-RS would be better known? Different tax tables, perhaps?

@NotACPA It's 1040-SR (for "Seniors"), not "RS" as the OP wrote. And there is no difference between the 1040 and 1040-SR except layout changes to make the font bigger; the 1040 is spread over 3 pages instead of 2. The line numbers are all the same. The preparation in Turbotax is the same for everyone, but if the tax filer is over 65, when you print the return, it automatically spits out the 1040-SR. There's not two different versions of the return you could enter; it's just a difference in which version of the form gets printed.

NotACPA

I file electronically … so I never paid any attention to that.

@robsquick, I cannot comment on your specific case rather share with you my experience. (sorry everyone to muddy the momentum)

More than five years ago I noticed a (~ $20) different end result between the two products - and the source was in calculating the non-deductible IRA contribution basis in a very specific combination of contribution and conversion: One used pure math, and the other incorporated some IRS table. I no longer remember the details, just that I chased it down for a few days and figured it out, replicated their calculations in a spreadsheet side-by-side to fully satisfy that it was not a math error. It was as if they 'interpreted' Pub 590-B differently (by design or mistake) and don't know if that is still the case.

That was a one-off and otherwise they both have had identical return values for me.

jacobs

I file electronically … so I never paid any attention to that.

I file electronically, too. But I still print (paper and PDF) a copy of my returns. (I also do the returns for my parents, and my 90-something father prefers to mail his returns! And a second return wouldn't be free with TT, anyway)

Anyway, hopefully we'll hear back from @robsquick and work our way to the bottom of his mystery.

robsquick

this is what I'm saying:

Well, for some unknown reason, HR Block came up with amount due as $665 less than Turbo. I did a side-by-side comparison of both returns - every single line was identical (except for amount due). Every checkbox was equal on both returns. The only thing different is that HR Block used Form 1040-SR whereas Turbo used Form 1040.

As to the two forms, my understanding is both produce the same results except RS is designed for Seniors - (formatting and fonts sizes. Another words 1+1=2 on both))

jacobs

@robsquick I'm trying to help, and I have asked you where the H&R Block return differs from the TurboTax return. You originally said they are identical, every line. Now, if I understand correctly, you’re revising that slightly to say the Amount Due amounts are different.

So just to be sure we're on the same page, can we clarify that you’re seeing that Line 37 (Amount you owe) on the two returns is different by the $665?
If yes, Line 37 is the simple subtraction of Line 33 (your total payments) from line 24 (your total tax). Are you saying that Line 24 and Line 33 are identical on both returns? That seems unlikely, since you say 1+1=2 on both returns. (Line 37 can't have two different answers if Line 24 and Line 33 are identical on both returns.) So, is it Line 24 or Line 33 which has a values that differs by $665?
I was guessing that the returns are different on Line 24, and also different on Line 16 and Line 18. Line 16, which is the computation of your tax, would be the most logical place for a difference, because there are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes to calculate the tax value on that line. But you've said above that Line 16 is identical on both returns. So the discrepancy has to appear somewhere between Line 17 and Line 37…

fmk-in-texas

Perhaps one is using 1040 and the other 1040-SR, and the difference would be based on the higher deductions granted to one over age 65 via 1040-SR.

jacobs

Perhaps one is using 1040 and the other 1040-SR, and the difference would be based on the higher deductions granted to one over age 65 via 1040-SR.

@fmk-in-texas Good thought, but no. 😉 The only difference with the 1040-SR is the formatting of the printed return; it doesn't change any tax calculations. And @robsquick stated that all the checkboxes for being over 65 are identical on both returns.

(In Turbotax, there is a way to specify for it to print a standard Form 1040 instead of a 1040-SR, if you want — as long as you're using the desktop program, not the online version. But all this changes is which version of the form is printed; it doesn't change any calculations, and even the line numbers are identical.)

Jim_Harman

My guess would be that on one return the different standard deduction for people over 65 is selected and on the other it is not. Look at the Age/Blindness checkboxes in the Standard Deduction section near the top of each form.

Depending on your marginal tax rate, for a joint return with both over 65, that could account for the $665 difference in tax due. That would also explain why one return uses the standard 1040 and the other uses 1040-SR.

jacobs

@Jim_Harman The use of the Form 1040-SR for individuals over 65 is purely optional. TurboTax does it by default, but a user can specify for it to print the regular 1040 if they wish. My accountant's tax software prints a regular 1040, even though my wife and I are 65+. The 1040-SR is not required, and the difference is purely cosmetic.

My guess would be that on one return the different standard deduction for people over 65 is selected and on the other it is not.

@robsquick has stated that "every checkbox was equal on both returns". Perhaps he can confirm that the Age/Blindness checkbox on the first page of the returns are indeed identically checked for both taxpayer and spouse.

I was trying to work backwards from the bottom line to find where the discrepancy appears. I was thinking that the two returns used different method of calculating the tax, resulting in different values on Line 16 (Tax). But above, he says Line 16 is identical on both returns. Even though he's said "every single line is identical", apparently Line 37 (Amount you owe) is different, so one or more of the other lines between Line 16 and 37 must also be different.

Jon

If the standard deduction was different then the AGI and taxable income amounts would also be different - basically line 12 & everything below it would be affected.

Jon

I think @jacobs question above gets to the core of the matter - line 37 is calculated by subtracting line 33 from line 24. If lines 33 & 24 are the same on both returns, then which one has the correct amount on line 37?

Jim_Harman

@Jon AGI is before the deduction, so it would not be affected, but you are right that the deduction amount on Line 12 and the taxable income on Line 15 would be different.

Jon

@Jim_Harman You're right, I mixed up AGI (line 11) with taxable income (line 15).

NotACPA

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20490768#Comment_20490768

I wasn't suggesting FILING a second return, merely preparing one. So that you'd be comparing the 1040 in both products to each other and/or the 1040-SR in both products.

In other words, trying to narrow down the differences.