Quicken Premier has started to silently delete old manual backups

bernhard.kohlhaas · June 16

I am using Quicken Premier Classic R57.16 on Windows 10 Pro 22H2.

I have automatic local backups disabled (Preferences → Backup) and manual backup reminder enabled with the reminder frequency set to 1 time. So every time I quit Quicken I am asked, if I want to perform a backup.

Each backup file has the backup date as part of the file name. Right now I have 80 manual backups and 29 automatic backups (apparently done each time after a new Quicken patch was installed).
A few days (and one or two Quicken patches ago), Quicken has started to delete the oldest backups. Each time I start Quicken it silently deletes the oldest of my qdf-backup files and I don't want it to do that.

Before that recent change Quicken never touched my old backup files and I don't want it to start doing that now.

Unfortunately my interaction with support was less than helpful. The support agent oscillated between advising me to change the number of backup files (which only applies to automatic backups and thus is disabled) and claiming that it must be another software (e.g. antivirus) that deletes my backups since "Quicken does not delete backup files"). And finally when I requested that they forward this issue to development for further analysis, they said they couldn't do that "since development isn't working today". Admittedly it is a Sunday, but don't they use some sort of written communication in their support processes?

I'm hoping that I can reach someone this way who can forward this to Quicken development for further analysis (and hopefully a fix for this in a future version).

splasher · June 16

This could be a new feature of the modified backup process, but who knows since Quicken hasn't told us much about the changes to the Backup process. I know that in Edit→Preferences→Backup, the manual backup was checked and the # was 0 and I NEVER set it that way, so R56.12 changed it.

I do know that Quicken does not close the data file since R56.12 when it does a backup and then re-open it afterwards.

Ps56k2 · June 18

this will be interesting to follow- and see if there are any other anomalies in the Backup world - after the R57.16 hotfix

Bananabowl · June 19

I noticed this as well. It starting deleting one backup file each time I ran Quicken. It went back about 9 months (left some ones alone that were older than that) and moved forward, deleting a newer one each time I ran the app. These only get put there when Quicken installs an update, I didn't enable automatic backup. I did wonder if it was something nefarious going on, but now that I see another Q user reporting it, I know that it is not just me. It would be nice to have an explanation, this is something that was modified on purpose in the app.

Ps56k2 · June 19

are these in the auto backup folder /backup/
and is it the semi oldest ones ?

Does it matter on the file name - the auto backup names and/or the “release” backup names ?

AviB · June 20

Hi, I have experienced the same issue in the last few days. I don't use automatic backup and my manual backup files keep disappearing.

bernhard.kohlhaas · June 21

So is the Quicken dev team going to step up and address this issue?

Quicken Kristina · June 21

Hello @bernhard.kohlhaas, @AviB, and @Bananabowl,

I'm not able to replicate the issue you are describing. Could you please provide more details? Are backups disappearing every time you open your Quicken program, every time you make a manual backup, or is something else triggering it? Is it always the oldest backup that disappears? If not, is there any pattern to which file disappears? What location do you save your manual backups to? If you are saving to a cloud service, does that cloud service have any sort of data cap that could cause older files to be deleted when you're at the maximum? What are your backup settings in your Quicken program (Edit>Preferences>Backup)? Does changing those settings prevent this issue?

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20440157#Comment_20440157

The Community is a forum where users help each other and there are a handful of moderators like myself who can do some troubleshooting with you. The Quicken dev team does not monitor the Community. I can see you already submitted a Problem Report with logs attached; that is one way to bring the issue to the attention of our teams, although you will not receive a direct response to your submission.

I look forward to your replies!

bernhard.kohlhaas · June 22

Hi Kristina,

Thanks so much for getting back to me.

These are my backup settings:

Please note that automatic local backups are turned off. Also for this test, I never created a manual backup, when I was prompted for it.

My Quicken files are saved in P:\Personal\Quickendata\Quicken and the backup files are saved in P:\Personal\Quickendata\Quicken\Backup P:\Personal is a volume on a local drive that is always attached to my computer, so no data caps apply. I used the "Process Monitor" tool from Microsoft ( https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon ) and verified that it was indeed the Quicken process (qw.exe) that - upon launch - deletes the backup file (unter certain conditions - see below).
If I have more than 98 backup files in my backup directly and launch Quicken, then Quicken will delete one single backup file. It is always the oldest backup file that is being deleted, that is the oldest file by file attribute timestamp, not by file name (which includes the date in my case).
As soon as I have 98 (or fewer) backup files in my backup directory, Quicken no longer deletes a backup file upon launch.
Since 98 is one less than the max number of backup copies "99" set in the "Automatic local backups" preferences, I tested, if those were correlated. In order to change it, I had to temporarily enable "Automatic local backups", change the number and then disable "Automatic local backups" again.
When I lowered the max number of backup copies to 95, exited Quicken and launched it again, it started deleting the oldest backup file once again, and once again one file at each Program Start. Once the number of backup copies was down to 94, Quicken stopped deleting a backup file upon startup.

From the above I conclude the following:

Quicken backup logic must have been recently changed, because this only started less than a month ago.
Whenever Quicken starts up, it checks the maximum number of backup copies and compares it to the current number of backups for the current Quicken file. If the current number of backups is equal or greater than the configured "maximum number of backup copies" it deletes one backup file, the oldest by file attribute timestamp.

Now the problem is that this happens, even when "Automatic local backups" is disabled in preferences. The option for "maximum number of local backup copies is obviously tied to the option "Automatic local backups", because you can't even change it, when "Automatic local backups" is NOT enabled.
So IMHO the fix should be that there should be check, whether "Automatic Local Backups" is enabled. When "Automatic Local Backups" is NOT enabled, Quicken should NEVER delete a backup file upon startup, regardless of how many backup files there are for my current Quicken data file.
(This was indeed the behavior until very recently.)

I hope that clarifies the issue and helps tracking it down. If you need more info, please don't hesitate to ask.

Bernhard

dashette · June 22

Same problem here. Quicken is definitely deleting old manual backups. I used to have 20 or so. Now down to 3. I have not manually deleted any. Quicken is doing it quietly in the background. Oddly, I don’t think they are showing up in my Recycle Bin. Not good.

jeeper · June 23

so it somehow is using the Auto Backup counter to effect the Manual Backup number of files ?

UKR · June 23

My Quicken files are saved in P:\Personal\Quickendata\Quicken and the backup files are saved in P:\Personal\Quickendata\Quicken\Backup

Maybe that's the reason why your oldest backup file is deleted based on maximum automatic backup file count.
Your backup location for your manual backups is the default automatic backup folder location, typically for ...\Documents\Quicken files it is …\Documents\Quicken\Backup.

Try renaming this folder to a different folder structure.
Or, even better, move all your backup files to another external USB device, e.g. X:\Quickendata\Manual Backups and change the folder location for the manual backups to the new location. Should your P: - drive ever got kaputt, you lose all your Quicken data files together with all your backups. Keep them separate!

bkbanister · June 23

Seeing "similar" results on my "Classic Deluxe" Subscription running on Win11 23H2. In my case it looks like "something" changed my local 'automatic backup max copies' from 99 to 5. I also had 'Backup after running Quicken' set at 5 and that parameter was unchanged. I'm assuming it was patch R57.16 that made the change as I let that go on Quicken about a week ago. Net result was that the 20-25 backups I thought I had became 4. With the limit set to 5 if you force a manual backup the 5th one appears and then seconds later the oldest backup vanishes and the actual backup count becomes 4. ???!!! Putting the Max number of backup copies back to 99 "cured" my problem but now I can't trust Quicken to not diddle with my preference settings. Good news is that I back-up the disk activity real-time via Carbonite and their site had 66 older backup copies that I restored so other than a bit of excitement, no lasting harm. None of the deleted files hit my Recycle Bin either. Hopefully this is a fixable Bug and not a new "feature". In any event, an explanation to the user body as to what-happened would be "nice".

Quicken Kristina · June 23

Hello All,

Thank you for taking the time to visit the Community to report this issue, though we apologize that you are experiencing this.

I am able to replicate this issue and have forwarded it to the proper channels to be further investigated. In the meantime, if you haven't already done so, please navigate to Help > Report a problem and submit a problem report with log files attached and (if you are willing) a sanitized copy of your data file in order to contribute to the investigation.

While you will not receive a response through this submission, these reports will help our teams in further investigating the issue. The more problem reports we receive, the better.

We apologize for any inconvenience!

When I replicated the issue, I noticed that I could get it to happen only in the file that Quicken uses to store automatic backups. If you haven't done so already, please try moving your backups to a different folder to see if that prevents the files from getting deleted. To confirm which file Quicken would save automatic backups to, go to Edit>Preferences>Backup, then, next to Automatic local backups, click the blue Open link.

Thank you.

(CTP-10282)

Quicken Premier has started to silently delete old manual backups

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