How do you budget for the new loan payment feature?

Unknown

I have converted my liabilities to the new loan feature. However, I do not see how you can budget for those loan payments given that the principal and interest breakdown changes from month to month. Would be nice that loan payments become a stand alone budget item.

jacobs

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

smayer97

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

BTW, there have been one or two work-arounds that have been mentioned here but I do not have them handy. You may want to search the forum for the info to see if they suit your needs.

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

smayer97

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Meanwhile, you can add your VOTE to Add Ability to Include or Exclude Transfers on Budgets.

First, click on the underlined link above to go there, then click VOTE at the top of THAT page, so your will vote count for THIS feature and increase its visibility to the developers.

While you are at it, you may want to add your VOTE to related IDEAS found on the List of Requests Related to Budgets. Click on the underlined link, then follow the instructions to add your vote to more related ideas. 

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

I think it has to be a loan payment specific budget category since the principal/interest amounts will always change month to month.

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

I searched...and didn't find the workaround(s).

If you could shed some light on this, it would be appreciated.

Thanks..

smayer97

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

@mdelesalle at present only the interest can show up on budgets by default, except using a work-around.

I hope one of the SUs familiar with this will come along soon to direct you if you still cannot find them.

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Found it:

https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-for-mac-2017-workaround-for-transfers-no...

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Not vey useful for loan payments when P & I will change monthly. Work around is a bit ridiculous but thanks for sharing. Hopefully this will be added in future releases both budgeting for transfers and loan payments which are different.

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

BTW, the "second" workaround...NOT selecting the Mortgage account in the report...doesn't seem to make any difference for me.

I don't know whether it's the report I've created or something else on my part, but even if I don't include the Mortgage account in the report, the amount of the principal STILL never shows in the report.

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Also, finally diving into Quicken Mac 2017 reports.

Wow...is all I can say.

Aside from NO option to include transfer transactions, several reports are completely worthless.

For example:

Spending Cloud --- the biggest waste ever!  How would ANYONE actually use this report???

Payee Summary --- OK, I get a breakdown for EACH payee.  But where's the OVERALL TOTAL amount??? Really...Quicken can't total these amounts up for me? How is this a "Summary"?  It's a list.  Categories total...but there is no total for ALL the categories. 

Same goes for "This Month" and "Last Month" reports.  Really...they can't add a line with simple math to total amounts and give me the COMPLETE total for those time periods???

How difficult could THAT be?

New Reports --- There's three choices?  Really?  That's it?  And none of them really are different than any of the other reports available.  

And please don't post about voting for more flexible reporting.  I don't really want to hear it. 

So, aside from a very complicated workaround, I'm basically stuck using the calculator to add in the mortgage principal transfer amount to the Category Summary report.

Why??????

smayer97

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

The why is simply because Quicken has been rebuilding the Mac version from the ground up and having to re-implement features. This is a long process, though it is much longer than most have desired. Not completely hard to understand given the last year and half effort to separate from Intuit and some of the mismanagement of Quicken for Mac prior to that. Hopefully the have a better footing now.

The "New" reports are supposed to be the beginning efforts to revamp the customized reports with a new reporting engine. We are told that in the upcoming year, report develop will hopefully be much faster and is one of the highest priorities. Time will tell. 

smayer97

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

And BTW, the voting is to help guide the priorities of that ongoing development effort moving forward and is one of the ways to voice your preferences. 

Your VOTES matter! Not convinced? All you have to do is look at is the fact that the votes here (among other feedback) helped Quicken rethink their approach to the subscription-based model they started rolling out with QW2017 for Canada which disabled a users ability to maintain their data if their subscription lapsed. 

(see QWin/QMac 2017: Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying)

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

OK...even with the "busy" schedule of rebuilding Quicken Mac from 2007, they've had plenty of time with Q2014, 2015, 2016 and now 2017.  That four years worth of products with horrendous reports.

If you're looking at a financial software package, aren't the most basic needs entering transactions and then reporting on those transactions?  That's job #1.  And after four years, Quicken still hasn't gotten the reporting part done so that it can produce ANYTHING resembling a useful report?  Come on.  

You're going to tell me that a product development team SOMEWHERE within Quicken never realized that creating a TOTAL amount in a report is something users require?

And how hard is it to put in ONE line of code to add together all the amounts in that one particular report?  This is something that shouldn't take more than a few days to complete...if that long. 

Come on...stop making excuses for Quicken already.  Four years and no functional reporting capabilities?  I might as well just use an Excel spreadsheet.  

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

So, smayer SuperUser...tell me.  How do you account for your mortgage principal payment in a report in Quicken Mac 2017?  You ARE a SuperUser.

And I'm sure you use that feature...that can't be accomplished.

Do YOU use a calculator and manually add in the mortgage principal amount?

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Same goes out to all the other Quicken Mac users out there.

Please tell me how you can get an accurate Income/Expense monthly or yearly report?  Or a Cash Flow report?

Are others just manually adding in that transfer amount?

I'm curious to know how everyone else handles this...because I really must be missing something here.  

smayer97

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

First, I do not use the budget feature. Second, my solution is that I do not use QM2017. I am still using QM2007 for many of the reasons you are complaining about.

I understand you are frustrated. Believe me I know, as I have chosen to stick with QM2007 because QM2017 still lacks a lot features that prevent me from moving to QM2017. It is frustrating to see a feature that is in QM2007 or QWin and then when that is developed and added to QM2017, it lacks the same or better functionality...Sometimes I understand why they roll out a feature in stages and other times are wonder why they did not take the extra effort to implement fully the first time around. 

But instead of complaining, I have been doing my part in communicating with Quicken about the needs of users (either directly or via this forum), and working to get others to do the same.
For example, take a look at the following that I put together:
List of Obstacles and Hindrances for Migrating from QM2007 or QWin to Quicken for Mac
and 
Categorized List of IDEAS of Feature Requests and Enhancements to Vote On

You can choose to criticize or choose to be constructive with your concerns by either contacting Quicken and voicing your opinions and/or adding your votes to features you want to see implemented. 

At least Quicken has made it possible to voice your concerns in various ways. Not many software companies give you that much direct access. Don't get me wrong. There is much for Quicken to improve. I am currently working to do what I can to move that along.

I suggest you do add your votes to links in each of the above. This will help direct the priorities of the developers by seeking to have the features you want end up in the latest version.

As for handling reports, budgets etc, it may not suit your needs but you can try to use the work-arounds suggested, export data to Excel where possible, etc.

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Great advice.  Basically, don't use the software.

Instead, use a software product that's 10 years old because it performs better.

Glowing endorsement for Quicken Mac 2017.  

That really answers my question...and helps quite a bit with what me and other users are experiencing. 

smayer97

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

I like to tell it like it is and try to give a complete picture. At least you know the options. The rest is up to you.

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

From the Quicken Mac 2017 website (quicken.com):

• Compare your income and spending against year over year with custom reports

That is a complete falsehood...because you can't compare ANYTHING of any value in Quicken Mac 2017...since it won't do simple math and you can't include any transfers.

Complete misrepresentation of the product.

But yet, I'm supposed to shell out even MORE money to get Quicken Mac 2018...which may or may not have simple addition and may or may not include the ability to include the mortgage principal amount in a very basic Income/Expense or Cash Flow report.  

All Quicken Mac 2017 amounts to is a very expensive electronic check register.  That's it!

jacobs

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Dental Pain, I feel your pain, but as smayer97 has said, this is mostly a user-to-user forum. (If you want, count that as another failing of Quicken, as I think they should have some associated with the the product team skimming these messages, and they generally don't.) So being snarky here doesn't have your desired affect of reaching Quicken. Instead, consider using the in-app problem reporting tool under the Help menu. The more customers they hear from, the more ways they hear what's causing users pain, the more likely it is to get addressed sooner.


And yes, unfortunately, the software development is this slow. You say reports are the obvious number one feature and can't understand how they haven't been addressed. But other users said loans were the no-brained top priority. And other users said budgeting was the top priority. And so various things *have* gotten done, just not the things you consider most important, and not complete enough to fill everyone's needs. (I've been railing about the inadequate reports since the day Quicken 2015 came out, so please know I'm right with you on the critical need to improve the reports.) Re-writing the reporting engine and interface is a big job, and I think they're trying to do such an overhaul instead of patching the current reports with bandaids.


I'm not making excuses for Quicken. I'm only trying to help explain how things have unfolded, and offer help to fellow users where I can, while we all wait to see if they can round this into a solid product over time.

Unknown

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

@jacobs...you...or ANY other Quicken Mac 2017 user...hasn't answered my last question.

How does one account for including a mortgage principal payment to get an accurate Income/Expense report or Cash Flow report?

Are you...and others...using a calculator to add in that amount?  

All I'm trying to do is to get TWO accurate monthly and yearly reports.

I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel.  

smayer97

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Asked and answered...you cannot the way Quicken works today. You have to use a work-around.

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

jacobs

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Dental Pain, you keep asking for a solution and I and others have told you there really isn't one until Quicken is changed to allow user to selectively include certain account transfers as expenses.

The simplest way to do it at this point is to dump a report to Excel/Numbers and add a line for mortgage principal, or to use a calculator and add it by hand. If you have just a home loan, it's really not that much work even though it's annoying, especially if you don't need it to the penny and are okay using rounded values that will be close.

A more complicated way is to create an actual category for mortgage principal expense instead of using each transaction to reduce the amount of your loan. If you're more interested in an expense or cash flow report, that might serve you better -- but of course it then means your loan/liability value won't be updated. So then you could do your loan as a liability (no loan) account, and enter manual transactions to reduce your principal, using *no* category on those transactions in the liability account.

Please don't tell us again that this is crazy/ridiculous/stupid -- we all (including the Quicken developers) get it that it's a shortcoming Quicken needs to address. The solution isn't simple, because Quicken shouldn't count *all* transfers as expenses; it needs some way of knowing which ones should count as expenses, which should show up in budget, and which shouldn't. But there are certainly ways to do this, and I suspect they decided to try to create a comprehensive solution rather than releasing a band-aid for one purpose and having users complain it doesn't address all the needs.

smayer97

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Though I agree overall, they have QM2007 and QWin to know how to do this since those products do it right. There is no need to figure it out and re-invent the wheel or the need to apply a band-aid solution.

Ross Peebles

jacobs said:

Yes, you have run into one of the key stumbling blocks with budgeting as it currently exists. It does not allow you to budget for transfers of funds. Paying off your loan principal is a transfer from your checking account (asset) to your loan account (liability.) Similarly, you can't budget for a transfer from checking to savings or a retirement account, since those are transfers of assets and not expenses. It's a major shortcoming. The only good thing is that the product manager has acknowledge this and said it will be revamped in the future -- but we have no idea when (and he hinted at later rather than sooner).

Easy solution (workaround) until they get it fixed:
Set up a category with any name you wish. I use "not used".Then charged your paying account to reduce the liability. At the same time (on a 3rd line) charge the paying expense category with an offset to "not used". You now have a total of 4 lines on the payment that now balances. Finally, and this is very important when you run your reports be sure to uncheck "not used" in the customize drop down.