From Eric Dunn, CEO of Quicken: Letter to the Quicken Community about the Membership Plan (November
Comments
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A subscription service is not always better customer service. In fact, the new upgrade model could make everyone a constant beta tester.Marketing Guru said:I am currently on Quicken 2016 Home & Business. We use it for managing one rental property and doing light invoicing for our very small business. I can tell you that, given the $100 PER YEAR charge for 2018 and considering all the software problems Quicken has had, we will NOT be moving to the subscription model. You have effectively tripled cost of ownership for us.
I can't tell you the amount of time I invested in keeping Quicken working with my credit union (reset account, rebuild account, etc. etc.) when it finally turned out that some programmer had messed up the scripting for online access. It wasn't anything the CU had done but something the Quicken scripting department had farkled.
Further, each new iteration of Quicken has created new bugs to squash without adding any more real functionality. For example, in investment tracking, I have LONG wanted (and requested) the ability to create custom classes of investments so that an analysis would produce a more granular report than currently available. It's never happened. In addition, as banks create more two-step authorization systems, Quicken has increasingly failed to properly deal with them.
Whenever a company raises prices, it should only do so from a position of strength. I'm sorry guys, but that's clearly NOT where you are right now. "Bringing everyone to the same level" is NOT a customer benefit. It's a benefit for your company.Deluxe R59.18, Windows 11 Pro
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With Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI? Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?
Deluxe R59.18, Windows 11 Pro
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And it's a reduction in cost for those users that bought a new version every year. There are winners and losers in this situation; I can't imagine a scenario where every user would be a winner when these type of changes are made.Edgar said:With all due respect to the CEO's justification for going to a one-year activation so the company can focus on updating a single version of Quicken rather than having to maintain three yearly versions that are currently active at any given time... baloney.
Since the new continually updated version of Quicken has a rolling expiration date based on the date of actual installation, it would have been just as simple to assign a three year validity period as the one year period that they did.
It is all about the money -- tripling the cost for those Quicken Deluxe users who have traditionally only bought a new version every three years.
But you are right, it is, ultimately, all about the money. Quicken Inc. need revenues to continue to develop the product and have decided how they are going to price it to generate that money. You and I (and all the other users) have to determine if the cost per year for the benefits we get from Quicken is worthwhile. For sure, some users will decide it isn't worth it and abandon the product, either through a cost/benefit decision or through an emotional "I don't like subscription software" reaction.US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v20040 -
Marketingmrzookie said:Eric,
Thanks for the update. In response, here's some feedback I hope you'll consider:
I've been using Quicken H&B for about 10 years now. I'm one of those customers who upgrade every three years, using software purchased from a partner, or from Quicken, at a discount. My cost of ownership has been, on average, about $20/year. The subscription model will surely increase that number substantially. That being said, I've also been a technology professional for over 25 years. I know what it takes to keep a complex application moving forward, up-to-date, and running well. $20 a year likely doesn't cut it. For that reason, I'm happy to pay the additional cost if there are tangible changes in product and service going forward.
I'm cautiously optimistic about the move to the membership model, because its obvious to me that maintaining and improving all the various products has become untenable. Both product quality and support have deteriorated significantly in the time I've been a customer, to the point that it should be an embarrassment to you and the people who work for you. I'd have upgraded more often, but like many others, I've dreaded any time it came to do it. Even minor updates caused concern. I've never had that feeling with other software packages, and I've been using them since the days of the original IBM PC. I'm hoping that, with the increased revenue and ability to focus on fewer product versions, Quicken will be able to right its tilting ship. I know, from experience, that this is not going to happen overnight, but the membership model is a step in the right direction, and I fully will support you in this effort unless I get the sense that an appropriate portion of the new revenue is not going back into the product.
I consider Quicken to be an important financial tool, and if the company goes down, I suffer. Nonetheless, the risk is real and I fully expect that some users will discontinue the use of the product, creating more risk. Your job is to win them (and more) back, and it needs to be done with commitment and quality. I hope you see it that way too.
So, right now, I understand and support your business vision - conditionally. In return, I ask the following commitments from you:
(1) Fix the bugs. They are legion. Make it priority 1, before adding new functionality. Start with errors in logic/function, then the interface and finally less critical issues. Elicit feedback and suggestions from beta testers and the user community at large - there are some really bright and energetic people on this board. Pay attention to what they tell you before designing, coding and implementing. It takes time, effort and money, but as the saying goes "never enough resource to do it right, but always enough to do it again".
(2) Stop using customers as alpha and beta testers. Hire an experienced QC director and let that person do their thing. A user should never have to dread doing an upgrade. It should be something to look forward to.
(3) Fix the support function. Right now its an absolute mess. Wait times are insane, and reps are uninformed and/or don't know what they're doing. Its inexcusable.
(4) Improve communications and customer relations. A small investment in these areas can go a long way to keeping the customer base and adding to it.
I can't speak for others, but if you do this, and do it right, I will be fine with the membership model, and its additional cost. I would be then likely be willing to pay even more for well designed and implemented improvements and additions.
Hope you take this in the spirit in which its intended.
Best of luck (to all of us).
Guru I think you are misapprehending the raison d'être of HIG Capital and similar companies; they are
not philanthropists.US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v20040 -
Thank you, Eric, for taking the time to explain some of the
I think that moving to a single version with frequent
reasoning behind the membership model. I’d also like to say thanks to you and
the company for listening to and acting on the feedback that led to your introduction
of the Data Access Guarantee.
updates will lead to an improvement in quality over time, and, with the
transition from Intuit backend services complete, I’d encourage you to get the teams to focus first on some of
the irritating bugs that come up in this forum week after week. Fixing some of
those soon will deliver something tangible to the users and be a good
demonstration of your commitment to the future.US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v20040 -
No. Data import is not part of the data access guarantee. When you use Web Connect, Q “calls home” to verify that you have a currently support version or subscription. The data access guarantee applies to the data in your data file and ability to add new data manually - and Q does not consider Web Connect to be manual entry.With Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI? Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?
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Can I save the downloaded transactions to a qif from an FI and manually import them - provided the FI offers that capability? Sorry if you already explained, but I'm trying to distinguish manual data import from Webconnect.With Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI? Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?
Deluxe R59.18, Windows 11 Pro
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Interesting perspective. I guess the opposite could also be true if there is not an expectation of needing an annual release with the subscription model. instead, new features and improvements can be rolled out as needed and more resources can be directed to resolving bugs and maintaining the institution interfaces.My concern is that with the new upgrade model, all customers will essentially be made part of a beta testing group for upgrades and will have to deal with much more frequent bugs.
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The word "import" is not found anywhere in the data guarantee: https://www.quicken.com/support/what-quicken-data-access-guaranteeWith Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI? Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?
Access to online services, such as transaction download, quotes, and mobile sync, along with access to Quicken Support, will end if your subscription does.
You can view, edit, export, and manually enter transactions and accounts, even after your subscription ends.
It seems pretty clear to me. The only way Q intends for you to be able to enter new data once your subscription ends is to manually enter transactions.0 -
Eric, thank you for communicating with the Community regarding the membership plan. This is a significant change that merits effective change management, with active leadership and sponsorship from the top of the organization.
I support the transition to the subscription model. In fact, I believe that the transition to the subscription model is essential to the longer term viability of Q. I've used Q for a long time - more than 20 years - and I would like to see the product continue to be available for another 20 years.
In my view, Quicken is a good value proposition at the new/current annual cost. I use both the banking and investing features. While I could find another way to manage my day-to-day banking, Q is indispensable for me on the investment side.
My experience with Quicken has been mixed. While I highly value the product, I've experienced some significant challenges and disappoints over the years. One of those disappointments was having to abandon my data file of ~20 years worth of history when it got corrupted through an upgrade process. Your PD team reviewed the data file and concluded that corruption could not be resolved.
A second example of my disappoints is this... As a Canadian customer, was probably one of the first customers to sign onto the subscription plan (early in CY2017). I can't think of any particular benefit I gained from upgrading from QC2016 to QC2017; however, I am very aware of the critical functionality that I lost to a defect introduced in the upgraded product. Your PD team introduced a (officially validated) defect into QC2017 that prevents (under any circumstance) population of the asset allocation portfolio rebalance table. It simply doesn't work. I've check back regularly with Q employees and, even now that we are anticipating the release of QC2018, there is no commitment to fix this defect. One of the main reasons I use (and subscribe to Q) is to help me in maintaining the asset allocation of my investment portfolio. This is an advertised/marketed feature of the product... that simply hasn't existed in the QC2017. This really is false advertising. I didn't need to upgrade... I still had a few years of support left on my QC2016 subscription, but I chose to upgrade... and my reward for spending the money on the upgrade was to lose one of the features most important to me. And, I reiterate, despite asking repeatedly, Q has made absolutely no commitment to fix the defect.
While I am fully supportive of the transition to the subscription model, it does, for me set some important customer expectations. I fully expect Q to do all of the following in relatively short order:- address festering product defects and address all (new) material defects in a timely manner;
- improve the quality of technical support;
- improve the reliability and robustness of Express Web Connect (because not all of us have access to Direct Connect);
- improve the robustness of Q database (reduce instances of data file corruption);
- improve communications and customer relations;
- improve the way Q solicits input from the user community; and
- improve product testing and quality.
Thanks again, sincerely, for communicating with community. I hope you are taking time, personally, to read our responses. I also hope that you adopt a practice of regularly communicating with the community.0 -
Thanks for clarifying.With Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI? Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?
Deluxe R59.18, Windows 11 Pro
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I too have been a long time user of the Q software with many years on QW and now on QM. I will continue to purchase the annual upgrade, (now subscription), and I look forward to continued progress and innovation as you use the revenue to further enhance data security and product usefulness to your customers. Thank you Mr. Dunn and your team for what you are trying to accomplish.0
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Yeah, reverse stock splits and lot-specific wash sales must be a breeze in Excel...¡ máirtín ! said:I stopped using Quicken shortly after I paid to upgrade to 2015.
Quicken is now very difficult to use.
I do everything in Excel now - a lot less work.0 -
I believe this is more of a value decision. I have not seen the value of upgrading every year as new features do not warrant the cost except every 3 years or so, or when forced. But now we have to upgrade every year with the hope that 'new' features will justify the cost. History has shown that is not the case and would need to wait to see what new management will bring in this before I agree to a subscription.
A lower cost basic subscription would be more tolerable, with additional add-on subscriptions to added functions. Software sales are not the only income stream to quicken, as they also receive fees from banks to allow customers to download.
So Quicken is deciding that enough people are not using their high margin services voluntarily so they will charge everyone for them, at a slight discount from the full cost, and that the customers lost will be made up by the higher annual fees to those customers and will not negatively impact the fees collected from financial institutions.0 -
You have sold me the last Quicken you will ever sell me.2017 Premier. Your subscription program is outright thievery . i usually update every year or every other year but will not be TOLD I HAVE TO. I have to use on computer for quicken only for WINDOWS. Quicken for MAC always is a joke.0
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To all those who whine about having to pay more than $20/year, I challenge you to find anything that comes even remotely close to what Quicken is capable of! Migrate to Excel! And spend 10x the amount of time managing your accounts and portfolio! If your time isn't worth the price difference, leave!Edgar said:With all due respect to the CEO's justification for going to a one-year activation so the company can focus on updating a single version of Quicken rather than having to maintain three yearly versions that are currently active at any given time... baloney.
Since the new continually updated version of Quicken has a rolling expiration date based on the date of actual installation, it would have been just as simple to assign a three year validity period as the one year period that they did.
It is all about the money -- tripling the cost for those Quicken Deluxe users who have traditionally only bought a new version every three years.0 -
Maybe manually entering transactions for a few months will convey the value that paying for Quicken provides... What is your time worth?With Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI? Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?
We should be thankful the Quicken has split from Intuit and chosen a better path. They would have died on the vine, otherwise.0 -
I am willing to give the Quicken subscription model a try. I have also downloaded Moneydance and Moneyspire to prepare to migrate in case I want to leave the subscription model after trying it. I also agree that the subscription pricing seems steep for the minor feature enhancements provided annually. As stated previously, I am concerned that subscribers will be subject to constantly unstable versions via frequent updates. Hopefully, updates will be on a scheduled basis versus a "whenever a patch is ready" basis.
Deluxe R59.18, Windows 11 Pro
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Thanks Eric. I have been using money management software since the late 80's, starting with Andrew Tobias' Managing Your Money.
Before using Quicken, I had been using MS Money. I was stunned when Microsoft decided to abandon MS Money and that's when I felt forced to purchase Quicken in 2009. I now love Quicken and use most of the features.
I am grateful that someone is committed to continuing the support and development of Quicken. I am not sure what I would do without it, as using personal finance software is now like owning/driving a car. I can't imagine life without it. I feel in total control of my finances because I can track everything from net worth to my retirement investments and plan for the future.
However, I am worried that Quicken can survive since Intuit and Microsoft abandoned personal desktop software.
Microsoft said that banks already provide features like Bill Pay. I would suggest Quicken drop features that might be a drain on Quicken. I use the heck out of most Quicken features, but I use free Bill Pay available from my Credit Union instead of what's available in Quicken. (not saying drop Bill Pay unless it is a drain and most people don't use it - just an example
Focus on the things that will make people love and depend on Quicken (like being able to see the total financial picture, including net worth, lifetime planning and powerful reporting).
Wishing you success!0 -
@Mike - Deluxe 2015With Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI? Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?
The QIF import process has been expanded to allow the import into non-cash accounts with the 2018 release of Quicken for Windows.
In the past, QIF imports were never affected by the Discontinuation Policy and while there has been nothing stated that would change that policy, there is nothing to say it won't change.-splasher using Q continuously since 1996
- Subscription Quicken - Win11 and QW2013 - Win11
-Questions? Check out the Quicken Windows FAQ list0 -
I concur with splasher, but I will emphasize that the Data Access Guarantee does NOT guarantee that the QIF method will remain available. Q has not stated it will close that door, but it hasn't guaranteed that door will remain open.With Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI? Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?
Also, fwiw, the non-cash account restriction was never implemented on Quicken Canadian edition.0 -
I believe the real reason for this change is strictly to increase revenue. Don't try to kid anyone. I've been using Quicken for many, many years and will start looking for an alternative. This is typical for new ownership to start changing a proven product. Very disappointed !!! Shame Shame Shame !!0
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And I've never heard or seen anywhere where cancelling in the middle of your subscription gives you a pro-rated refund for the remaining period.Marketing Guru said:I am currently on Quicken 2016 Home & Business. We use it for managing one rental property and doing light invoicing for our very small business. I can tell you that, given the $100 PER YEAR charge for 2018 and considering all the software problems Quicken has had, we will NOT be moving to the subscription model. You have effectively tripled cost of ownership for us.
I can't tell you the amount of time I invested in keeping Quicken working with my credit union (reset account, rebuild account, etc. etc.) when it finally turned out that some programmer had messed up the scripting for online access. It wasn't anything the CU had done but something the Quicken scripting department had farkled.
Further, each new iteration of Quicken has created new bugs to squash without adding any more real functionality. For example, in investment tracking, I have LONG wanted (and requested) the ability to create custom classes of investments so that an analysis would produce a more granular report than currently available. It's never happened. In addition, as banks create more two-step authorization systems, Quicken has increasingly failed to properly deal with them.
Whenever a company raises prices, it should only do so from a position of strength. I'm sorry guys, but that's clearly NOT where you are right now. "Bringing everyone to the same level" is NOT a customer benefit. It's a benefit for your company.
As a matter of fact, Quicken 2018 comes with a 30 day money back guarantee (NOT a 60 day money back guarantee that previous versions had). After the 30 days, you're out of luck.0 -
At the risk of stating the obvious, Quicken is not a charity. It is up to each individual customer to decide whether the product does or does not offer a value proposition at a given price level. Time will tell whether the transition to the subscription model was a wise business decision. I'm betting it was. I also think it is in the best interest of it's shareholders and it customers. In fact, I would bet that Q wouldn't survive as a company for long without this transition. Kudos to Q for having the courage to make a business decision that would, predictably, be met with mixed responses from the customer base.Robert Derivan said:I believe the real reason for this change is strictly to increase revenue. Don't try to kid anyone. I've been using Quicken for many, many years and will start looking for an alternative. This is typical for new ownership to start changing a proven product. Very disappointed !!! Shame Shame Shame !!
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I've been a Quicken user since the mid 1980's. Supporting the product? I've called tech support maybe twice in all that time...both regarding an issue about a Mac product I needed to move to a newer machine and couldn't get the last update for Qiucken Mac 2007 that worked on Sierra. Both times I was told just to upgrade to Quicken Mac 2017 because they wouldn't help me with an unsupported product any more.Stuart Rouff said:[Profanity removed] The aim is more profit pure and simple. If you didn't force us to update by cutting off access to data, you'd have to fire half or more of your workforce. If there was something as good now or in the future, I would jump ship faster than you put out more bilge.
In essence, there is no support really needed for the vast majority of Quicken users. The only support needed is maintaining their servers and their connection to the financial institutions, which seems to be greatly lacking.0 -
What's maddening, is that we've heard Eric Dunn's commitment to better quality before. I've seen the same gibberish 20 months ago from him and the Quicken team.mrzookie said:Eric,
Thanks for the update. In response, here's some feedback I hope you'll consider:
I've been using Quicken H&B for about 10 years now. I'm one of those customers who upgrade every three years, using software purchased from a partner, or from Quicken, at a discount. My cost of ownership has been, on average, about $20/year. The subscription model will surely increase that number substantially. That being said, I've also been a technology professional for over 25 years. I know what it takes to keep a complex application moving forward, up-to-date, and running well. $20 a year likely doesn't cut it. For that reason, I'm happy to pay the additional cost if there are tangible changes in product and service going forward.
I'm cautiously optimistic about the move to the membership model, because its obvious to me that maintaining and improving all the various products has become untenable. Both product quality and support have deteriorated significantly in the time I've been a customer, to the point that it should be an embarrassment to you and the people who work for you. I'd have upgraded more often, but like many others, I've dreaded any time it came to do it. Even minor updates caused concern. I've never had that feeling with other software packages, and I've been using them since the days of the original IBM PC. I'm hoping that, with the increased revenue and ability to focus on fewer product versions, Quicken will be able to right its tilting ship. I know, from experience, that this is not going to happen overnight, but the membership model is a step in the right direction, and I fully will support you in this effort unless I get the sense that an appropriate portion of the new revenue is not going back into the product.
I consider Quicken to be an important financial tool, and if the company goes down, I suffer. Nonetheless, the risk is real and I fully expect that some users will discontinue the use of the product, creating more risk. Your job is to win them (and more) back, and it needs to be done with commitment and quality. I hope you see it that way too.
So, right now, I understand and support your business vision - conditionally. In return, I ask the following commitments from you:
(1) Fix the bugs. They are legion. Make it priority 1, before adding new functionality. Start with errors in logic/function, then the interface and finally less critical issues. Elicit feedback and suggestions from beta testers and the user community at large - there are some really bright and energetic people on this board. Pay attention to what they tell you before designing, coding and implementing. It takes time, effort and money, but as the saying goes "never enough resource to do it right, but always enough to do it again".
(2) Stop using customers as alpha and beta testers. Hire an experienced QC director and let that person do their thing. A user should never have to dread doing an upgrade. It should be something to look forward to.
(3) Fix the support function. Right now its an absolute mess. Wait times are insane, and reps are uninformed and/or don't know what they're doing. Its inexcusable.
(4) Improve communications and customer relations. A small investment in these areas can go a long way to keeping the customer base and adding to it.
I can't speak for others, but if you do this, and do it right, I will be fine with the membership model, and its additional cost. I would be then likely be willing to pay even more for well designed and implemented improvements and additions.
Hope you take this in the spirit in which its intended.
Best of luck (to all of us).
But then you release a garbage product like Quicken 2018 with Bill and Income Reminders a complete disaster, the advertised features of downloading pdf bill statements when in reality there are less than 100 companies with that capability and email rent reminders when all you can do is email past due reminders.
This shows a complete lack of ANY quality in the product. None whatsoever. And yet legacy bugs still remain.
And don't chime in here and tell me most of the programming resources were used to update to the Quicken ID. It's still shoddy and poor programming and deceptive marketing on Quicken's part.
No user should have to put up with this, whether its $20 software or $120 software.0 -
Dan...do you think there will REALLY be more development of the product? Don't you think Quicken has gone pretty much as far as it can go?Edgar said:With all due respect to the CEO's justification for going to a one-year activation so the company can focus on updating a single version of Quicken rather than having to maintain three yearly versions that are currently active at any given time... baloney.
Since the new continually updated version of Quicken has a rolling expiration date based on the date of actual installation, it would have been just as simple to assign a three year validity period as the one year period that they did.
It is all about the money -- tripling the cost for those Quicken Deluxe users who have traditionally only bought a new version every three years.
They've "developed" a "new" Income and Reminders area...that so far stinks, is loaded with bugs and for almost every user is unusable. Then you have the promise of downloading pdf bills...yet less than 100 billers have that capability.
It's yet another poorly programmed version of Quicken...which is nothing new in their history.0 -
For a lesson in how to run a business into the ground, just check out Sears Holdings.Robert Derivan said:I believe the real reason for this change is strictly to increase revenue. Don't try to kid anyone. I've been using Quicken for many, many years and will start looking for an alternative. This is typical for new ownership to start changing a proven product. Very disappointed !!! Shame Shame Shame !!
Quicken will follow suit. Antiquated software with poor quality. A recipe for failure.0 -
But this is the beauty of how our market works: if you don’t like or have confidence it what you are being sold, then don’t buy it and find something else.Edgar said:With all due respect to the CEO's justification for going to a one-year activation so the company can focus on updating a single version of Quicken rather than having to maintain three yearly versions that are currently active at any given time... baloney.
Since the new continually updated version of Quicken has a rolling expiration date based on the date of actual installation, it would have been just as simple to assign a three year validity period as the one year period that they did.
It is all about the money -- tripling the cost for those Quicken Deluxe users who have traditionally only bought a new version every three years.
I’m sure they inherited a mess of a code base, but this allows them to deliver new features AND fixes throughout the year in a much more agile fashion.
And don’t forget they are talking about their list prices. As we have seen before and even now, they offer some pretty steep discounts through promotions to help take the edge off.0 -
I support the change and have already noticed improvement in several areas.
Previously there were one or two financial institutions where the downloads were always troublesome. I had contacted support to no avail. I just noticed in the last month or so that these are now working flawlessly. Bravo.
I have always upgraded to the latest version so a subscription service that continuously adds features is fine with me.
And in 2018 I have noticed the improvements in the reports area. The data is worthless if it can't be manipulated, summarized and analyzed and that's what reports do.
Hey, keep up the good work.0
