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From Eric Dunn, CEO of Quicken: Letter to the Quicken Community about the Membership Plan (November

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Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown Unconfirmed
    edited September 2018
    mrzookie said:

    Eric,

    Thanks for the update. In response, here's some feedback I hope you'll consider:

    I've been using Quicken H&B for about 10 years now. I'm one of those customers who upgrade every three years, using software purchased from a partner, or from Quicken, at a discount. My cost of ownership has been, on average, about $20/year. The subscription model will surely increase that number substantially. That being said, I've also been a technology professional for over 25 years. I know what it takes to keep a complex application moving forward, up-to-date, and running well. $20 a year likely doesn't cut it. For that reason, I'm happy to pay the additional cost if there are tangible changes in product and service going forward.

    I'm cautiously optimistic about the move to the membership model, because its obvious to me that maintaining and improving all the various products has become untenable. Both product quality and support have deteriorated significantly in the time I've been a customer, to the point that it should be an embarrassment to you and the people who work for you. I'd have upgraded more often, but like many others, I've dreaded any time it came to do it. Even minor updates caused concern. I've never had that feeling with other software packages, and I've been using them since the days of the original IBM PC. I'm hoping that, with the increased revenue and ability to focus on fewer product versions, Quicken will be able to right its tilting ship. I know, from experience, that this is not going to happen overnight, but the membership model is a step in the right direction, and I fully will support you in this effort unless I get the sense that an appropriate portion of the new revenue is not going back into the product. 

    I consider Quicken to be an important financial tool, and if the company goes down, I suffer. Nonetheless, the risk is real and I fully expect that some users will discontinue the use of the product, creating more risk. Your job is to win them (and more) back, and it needs to be done with commitment  and quality.  I hope you see it that way too.

    So, right now, I understand and support your business vision - conditionally. In return, I ask the following commitments from you:

    (1) Fix the bugs. They are legion. Make it priority 1, before adding new functionality. Start with errors in logic/function, then the interface and finally less critical issues. Elicit feedback and suggestions from beta testers and the user community at large - there are some really bright and energetic people on this board. Pay attention to what they tell you before designing, coding and implementing. It takes time, effort and money, but as the saying goes "never enough resource to do it right, but always enough to do it again". 

    (2) Stop using customers as alpha and beta testers. Hire an experienced QC director and let that person do their thing.  A user should never have to dread doing an upgrade. It should be something to look forward to.

    (3) Fix the support function. Right now its an absolute mess. Wait times are insane, and reps are uninformed and/or don't know what they're doing. Its inexcusable.

    (4) Improve communications and customer relations. A small investment in these areas can go a long way to keeping the customer base and adding to it.

    I can't speak for others, but if you do this, and do it right, I will be fine with the membership model, and its additional cost. I would be then likely be willing to pay even more for well designed and implemented improvements and additions.

    Hope you take this in the spirit in which its intended.

    Best of luck (to all of us).

    What's maddening, is that we've heard Eric Dunn's commitment to better quality before.  I've seen the same gibberish 20 months ago from him and the Quicken team.

    But then you release a garbage product like Quicken 2018 with Bill and Income Reminders a complete disaster, the advertised features of downloading pdf bill statements when in reality there are less than 100 companies with that capability and email rent reminders when all you can do is email past due reminders.

    This shows a complete lack of ANY quality in the product.  None whatsoever.  And yet legacy bugs still remain.

    And don't chime in here and tell me most of the programming resources were used to update to the Quicken ID.  It's still shoddy and poor programming and deceptive marketing on Quicken's part.  

    No user should have to put up with this, whether its $20 software or $120 software. 
  • Unknown
    Unknown Unconfirmed
    edited April 2018
    Edgar said:

    With all due respect to the CEO's justification for going to a one-year activation so the company can focus on updating a single version of Quicken rather than having to maintain three yearly versions that are currently active at any given time... baloney.

    Since the new continually updated version of Quicken has a rolling expiration date based on the date of actual installation, it would have been just as simple to assign a three year validity period as the one year period that they did.

    It is all about the money -- tripling the cost for those Quicken Deluxe users who have traditionally only bought a new version every three years.

    Dan...do you think there will REALLY be more development of the product?  Don't you think Quicken has gone pretty much as far as it can go?

    They've "developed" a "new" Income and Reminders area...that so far stinks, is loaded with bugs and for almost every user is unusable.  Then you have the promise of downloading pdf bills...yet less than 100 billers have that capability.

    It's yet another poorly programmed version of Quicken...which is nothing new in their history.  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Unconfirmed
    edited January 2018

    I believe the real reason for this change is strictly to increase revenue. Don't try to kid anyone. I've been using Quicken for many, many years and will start looking for an alternative. This is typical for new ownership to start changing a proven product.  Very disappointed !!!  Shame Shame Shame !! 

    For a lesson in how to run a business into the ground, just check out Sears Holdings.

    Quicken will follow suit. Antiquated software with poor quality.  A recipe for failure. 
  • mattyv123
    mattyv123 Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2017
    Edgar said:

    With all due respect to the CEO's justification for going to a one-year activation so the company can focus on updating a single version of Quicken rather than having to maintain three yearly versions that are currently active at any given time... baloney.

    Since the new continually updated version of Quicken has a rolling expiration date based on the date of actual installation, it would have been just as simple to assign a three year validity period as the one year period that they did.

    It is all about the money -- tripling the cost for those Quicken Deluxe users who have traditionally only bought a new version every three years.

    But this is the beauty of how our market works: if you don’t like or have confidence it what you are being sold, then don’t buy it and find something else.


    I’m sure they inherited a mess of a code base, but this allows them to deliver new features AND fixes throughout the year in a much more agile fashion.


    And don’t forget they are talking about their list prices. As we have seen before and even now, they offer some pretty steep discounts through promotions to help take the edge off.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2017
    I support the change and have already noticed improvement in several areas.
    Previously there were one or two financial institutions where the downloads were always troublesome.  I had contacted support to no avail.  I just noticed in the last month or so that these are now working flawlessly.  Bravo.
    I have always upgraded to the latest version so a subscription service that continuously adds features is fine with me.
    And in 2018 I have noticed the improvements in the reports area.  The data is worthless if it can't be manipulated, summarized and analyzed and that's what reports do.
    Hey, keep up the good work.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited December 2018
    Well the move to establish new UserID was not flawless. I spent 4 hours trying to get the accounts to log on and update and by internet posts there were thousands of others with the same issue than after a couple days working..I had to do it all over again. NOW having said that....The original agreement between the software maker and the user on my 2017 Premier clearly states it will be supported through 2020 . The best I can tell this is binding with the new owner of the software. I expect them to honor it and if not it will be class action time. Just because a company is sold or spun off does not nullify the user agreement.
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    Geneo56 said:

    Well the move to establish new UserID was not flawless. I spent 4 hours trying to get the accounts to log on and update and by internet posts there were thousands of others with the same issue than after a couple days working..I had to do it all over again. NOW having said that....The original agreement between the software maker and the user on my 2017 Premier clearly states it will be supported through 2020 . The best I can tell this is binding with the new owner of the software. I expect them to honor it and if not it will be class action time. Just because a company is sold or spun off does not nullify the user agreement.

    The commitment you are expecting is posted publicly here: https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken-discontinuation-policy
  • Dan Glynhampton
    Dan Glynhampton SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    Geneo56 said:

    Well the move to establish new UserID was not flawless. I spent 4 hours trying to get the accounts to log on and update and by internet posts there were thousands of others with the same issue than after a couple days working..I had to do it all over again. NOW having said that....The original agreement between the software maker and the user on my 2017 Premier clearly states it will be supported through 2020 . The best I can tell this is binding with the new owner of the software. I expect them to honor it and if not it will be class action time. Just because a company is sold or spun off does not nullify the user agreement.

    If you read Eric’s letter above you see it contains this:


    "As customers shift from the pre-membership Quicken versions (which we continue to support)..."


    Which should address you concerns about expiry of the older products. You can also check out the Discontinuation Policy here:


    https://www.quicken.com/support/quick...
    US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v2004
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited April 2018
    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled No subscription for me.


    I've been with Quicken Windows since '91, and am now using Quicken Mac. The subscription plan will make me a past, and disgruntled, user. I tried to hang in there, but disappointments abounded to the breaking point. I will steer all who ask me away from such a miserable and costly experience. No window dressing of "lower costs" can cover this. Pitiful planning for customers.
  • Dan Glynhampton
    Dan Glynhampton SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    Edgar said:

    With all due respect to the CEO's justification for going to a one-year activation so the company can focus on updating a single version of Quicken rather than having to maintain three yearly versions that are currently active at any given time... baloney.

    Since the new continually updated version of Quicken has a rolling expiration date based on the date of actual installation, it would have been just as simple to assign a three year validity period as the one year period that they did.

    It is all about the money -- tripling the cost for those Quicken Deluxe users who have traditionally only bought a new version every three years.

    "Dan...do you think there will REALLY be more development of the product?"

    Was that aimed at me?  Sorry, didn't spot it.

    As far as the Mac version goes I think there will be more development, I don't use it myself but I gather it's some way from feature parity with the Windows version.  It's speculation on my part, but I expect them to continue development and for the gap between it and the Windows version to close, though I doubt they will ever be identical.

    The Windows product is a different matter, it's very mature now, the chance of some killer feature coming along that will have the user base salivating is pretty remote. Hopefully there will be a focus on fixing extant bugs and whatever new features do get added will be more robust.  Some development work to keep up with the changing security requirements of the banks and other network issues is going to be needed too, although that's pretty unsexy from user perspective it is nevertheless essential.

    So what I'm hoping to see is a steady improvement, not radical new developments.  Time will tell.
    US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v2004
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited April 2018
    I'm sure Quicken's management did a thorough cost/benefit analysis as they contemplated shifting to an annual membership model.  And many users are doing the same thing.  We all come to the conclusions that best align with our value systems and our self-interest. And we all resist change. For example, how many of us bitched when we learned that Windows 10 would perform automatic upgrades (when, in the past, we could ignore the upgrade or install it when we wanted to)?  But we eventually got used to it.  I suspect that over time Quicken users will stop venting and accept the fact that, for better or worse, the annual membership is here to stay.  We'll either accept it or hope that the competition, seeing Quicken's weakness in it's pricing model or it's product, will provide an alternative. Which, of course, creates the "be careful what you wish for" issue.

    But the other issue is WHEN to upgrade. The desire of many to jump on the latest model asap has cost them.  Anyone have a Galaxy Note7 that caught fire?  Ever buy the latest new car only to discover they were in recall purgatory?  Every time Apple brings out a new iPhone or an IOS, there seems to be a problem.  I was an "early adaptor" for many years until experiences like those I mentioned taught me to cool my heels until the inevitable bugs were discovered and fixed..

    I think the same process applies to QW 2018.  The annual membership model only confirms my thinking.  I'll stick with QW 2017 for a year or so and then make my decision. 

    Finally, I thank those of you who really understand the intricacies and weaknesses of Quicken and continue to bring them to the company's attention.  Without you, I don't know where we would be.
  • Marketing Guru
    Marketing Guru Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    mrzookie said:

    Eric,

    Thanks for the update. In response, here's some feedback I hope you'll consider:

    I've been using Quicken H&B for about 10 years now. I'm one of those customers who upgrade every three years, using software purchased from a partner, or from Quicken, at a discount. My cost of ownership has been, on average, about $20/year. The subscription model will surely increase that number substantially. That being said, I've also been a technology professional for over 25 years. I know what it takes to keep a complex application moving forward, up-to-date, and running well. $20 a year likely doesn't cut it. For that reason, I'm happy to pay the additional cost if there are tangible changes in product and service going forward.

    I'm cautiously optimistic about the move to the membership model, because its obvious to me that maintaining and improving all the various products has become untenable. Both product quality and support have deteriorated significantly in the time I've been a customer, to the point that it should be an embarrassment to you and the people who work for you. I'd have upgraded more often, but like many others, I've dreaded any time it came to do it. Even minor updates caused concern. I've never had that feeling with other software packages, and I've been using them since the days of the original IBM PC. I'm hoping that, with the increased revenue and ability to focus on fewer product versions, Quicken will be able to right its tilting ship. I know, from experience, that this is not going to happen overnight, but the membership model is a step in the right direction, and I fully will support you in this effort unless I get the sense that an appropriate portion of the new revenue is not going back into the product. 

    I consider Quicken to be an important financial tool, and if the company goes down, I suffer. Nonetheless, the risk is real and I fully expect that some users will discontinue the use of the product, creating more risk. Your job is to win them (and more) back, and it needs to be done with commitment  and quality.  I hope you see it that way too.

    So, right now, I understand and support your business vision - conditionally. In return, I ask the following commitments from you:

    (1) Fix the bugs. They are legion. Make it priority 1, before adding new functionality. Start with errors in logic/function, then the interface and finally less critical issues. Elicit feedback and suggestions from beta testers and the user community at large - there are some really bright and energetic people on this board. Pay attention to what they tell you before designing, coding and implementing. It takes time, effort and money, but as the saying goes "never enough resource to do it right, but always enough to do it again". 

    (2) Stop using customers as alpha and beta testers. Hire an experienced QC director and let that person do their thing.  A user should never have to dread doing an upgrade. It should be something to look forward to.

    (3) Fix the support function. Right now its an absolute mess. Wait times are insane, and reps are uninformed and/or don't know what they're doing. Its inexcusable.

    (4) Improve communications and customer relations. A small investment in these areas can go a long way to keeping the customer base and adding to it.

    I can't speak for others, but if you do this, and do it right, I will be fine with the membership model, and its additional cost. I would be then likely be willing to pay even more for well designed and implemented improvements and additions.

    Hope you take this in the spirit in which its intended.

    Best of luck (to all of us).

    Wow, seems you are super-invested in Quicken (the company) Dan.  Do you have any financial connection to them? FWIW, I never implied that HIG was a charity.  I have been a C-level exec with two public companies and several private firms.  I worked in high tech for years and I also owned a software company. I'm pretty familiar with how these things work.

    The  basic rule of turn-arounds is don't try to milk a dry cow. If HIG's business model depended on getting higher prices for a buggy, mature product (the subscription model) to generate  revenue needed to move the product forward, they made what I consider to be a colossal error.  Look at how many  NEW people are signing up to these boards JUST to complain about the pricing. That tells me HIG has misjudged customer loyalty completely or they thought they could schmooze it away with PR, ad copy and an AOL CD giveaway program. 

    A basic SWOT analysis on Quicken (the product) would have  ID'd  all the W's. Things like buggy product, upset customers, online competition, poor support, etc.  Because solving those problems are critical to retaining customers, the investment should have been made to fund the major issues up front. It's called R&D.

    What you don't typically do in management is conclude the reason Quicken wasn't doing well was because prices were too low.

     Maybe Quicken should have just launched a GoFundMe program. "Everyone pitch in $25. When we reach $200K we'll fix the program."
  • Unknown
    Unknown Unconfirmed
    edited May 2018
    mrzookie said:

    Eric,

    Thanks for the update. In response, here's some feedback I hope you'll consider:

    I've been using Quicken H&B for about 10 years now. I'm one of those customers who upgrade every three years, using software purchased from a partner, or from Quicken, at a discount. My cost of ownership has been, on average, about $20/year. The subscription model will surely increase that number substantially. That being said, I've also been a technology professional for over 25 years. I know what it takes to keep a complex application moving forward, up-to-date, and running well. $20 a year likely doesn't cut it. For that reason, I'm happy to pay the additional cost if there are tangible changes in product and service going forward.

    I'm cautiously optimistic about the move to the membership model, because its obvious to me that maintaining and improving all the various products has become untenable. Both product quality and support have deteriorated significantly in the time I've been a customer, to the point that it should be an embarrassment to you and the people who work for you. I'd have upgraded more often, but like many others, I've dreaded any time it came to do it. Even minor updates caused concern. I've never had that feeling with other software packages, and I've been using them since the days of the original IBM PC. I'm hoping that, with the increased revenue and ability to focus on fewer product versions, Quicken will be able to right its tilting ship. I know, from experience, that this is not going to happen overnight, but the membership model is a step in the right direction, and I fully will support you in this effort unless I get the sense that an appropriate portion of the new revenue is not going back into the product. 

    I consider Quicken to be an important financial tool, and if the company goes down, I suffer. Nonetheless, the risk is real and I fully expect that some users will discontinue the use of the product, creating more risk. Your job is to win them (and more) back, and it needs to be done with commitment  and quality.  I hope you see it that way too.

    So, right now, I understand and support your business vision - conditionally. In return, I ask the following commitments from you:

    (1) Fix the bugs. They are legion. Make it priority 1, before adding new functionality. Start with errors in logic/function, then the interface and finally less critical issues. Elicit feedback and suggestions from beta testers and the user community at large - there are some really bright and energetic people on this board. Pay attention to what they tell you before designing, coding and implementing. It takes time, effort and money, but as the saying goes "never enough resource to do it right, but always enough to do it again". 

    (2) Stop using customers as alpha and beta testers. Hire an experienced QC director and let that person do their thing.  A user should never have to dread doing an upgrade. It should be something to look forward to.

    (3) Fix the support function. Right now its an absolute mess. Wait times are insane, and reps are uninformed and/or don't know what they're doing. Its inexcusable.

    (4) Improve communications and customer relations. A small investment in these areas can go a long way to keeping the customer base and adding to it.

    I can't speak for others, but if you do this, and do it right, I will be fine with the membership model, and its additional cost. I would be then likely be willing to pay even more for well designed and implemented improvements and additions.

    Hope you take this in the spirit in which its intended.

    Best of luck (to all of us).

    I sincerely think that no matter how many dollars that Quicken invests in the software, through higher revenue or not, Quicken will still remain a buggy mess because of outdated spaghetti like code that gets patched instead of improved.

    And remember, Quicken was sold to HIG a capital investment group.  What do capital investment groups do?  The buy up companies in order to make a big profit in the hopes of selling it off for an even bigger profit.  So why is anyone surprised that about 1/3 of Quicken's users will see a 33-50% price increase? 

    Almost everyone knows that what Quicken Windows really needs is a complete re-write...but based on the mess Quicken Mac where it's 10 years and running with a sub-standard software that they are still trying to make completely functional, it probably won't ever happen for Quicken Windows. 

    What IS apparent is that Quicken's development and programming team appear to be just incompetent.  The India team has zero idea how accounting and finance works in the US.  And the US team can't seem to convey how it does work here...and has unbelievably lousy implementation of any idea they come up with.  And the design team is just at sea.  Orange and yellow colors on a graph?  Really? 

    So, what you have is really Quicken "2018", both Windows and Mac versions, that are being beta tested with actual users who are paying for the privilege to be a beta tester.  How insane is that? "Oh, don't worry about it...we have these new "features" and we'll work out the problems later".  What a crazy way to develop and issue software to loyal users.  

    Most likely, I'm sticking with Quicken 2017 until April 30, 2020.  And then move on to something else.

    As it appears that the tax code will change drastically, there will be less and less need to actually keep track of deductible items such as medical expenses (phased out), state income taxes paid (phased out) and possibly even real estate taxes paid (maybe phased out).

    So, most things that need reporting on your taxes will be sent to you from your financial institutions, such as interest, dividends and capital gains.

    If I only need those mailed or downloaded tax forms to report on my taxes, then I can use just about any software product, online or desktop, to keep track of my spending, my budget and my investments.  Mint will do it, Personal Capital will do it, and I can find at least 10 other desktop offerings that will do it without the cost and eventual termination dates that Quicken has. 

    Heck even my bank has a Total Look feature where I can download transactions from institutions outside of the bank and categorize them and eventually export them to a .csv file if I need to.  So really, why DO I need Quicken?

    There really will be very little need for Quicken at all.  
  • John_in_NC
    John_in_NC SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2017
    Mike said:

    Thanks Eric.  I have been using money management software since the late 80's, starting with Andrew Tobias' Managing Your Money.

    Before using Quicken, I had been using MS Money.  I was stunned when Microsoft decided to abandon MS Money and that's when I felt forced to purchase Quicken in 2009.  I now love Quicken and use most of the features.

    I am grateful that someone is committed to continuing the support and development of Quicken.  I am not sure what I would do without it, as using personal finance software is now like owning/driving a car.  I can't imagine life without it.  I feel in total control of my finances because I can track everything from net worth to my retirement investments and plan for the future.

    However, I am worried that Quicken can survive since Intuit and Microsoft abandoned personal desktop software. 

    Microsoft said that banks already provide features like Bill Pay. I would suggest Quicken drop features that might be a drain on Quicken. I use the heck out of most Quicken features, but I use free Bill Pay available from my Credit Union instead of what's available in Quicken.  (not saying drop Bill Pay unless it is a drain and most people don't use it - just an example :) 

    Focus on the things that will make people love and depend on Quicken (like being able to see the total financial picture, including net worth, lifetime planning and powerful reporting).  

    Wishing you success!

    It's ironic that you mention MS Money. That program didn't have the sunset policies controlling how long or from what banks you could download. Look where that free for all led them to-and it wasn't because Money was a bad program with few users.

    Every April, there is a flood of postings from (sunsetted) Quicken users who are irate that they are "forced" to upgrade. There are always threats to abandon Quicken. Well, they pretty much already had if they don't want to open up their wallets for more.

    And there are also users who have used the same copy of Quicken for 15 years, but their new system won't run such an old program. Mad they have to upgrade, these folks demand steep discounts on the new version because they have been such "loyal users." Some people are unbelievably cheap. 

    I believe Quicken can be profitable, but it will requiring skimming off those who wanted a free ride. Perhaps these people don't realize it isn't a program they are using, but rather, a service. If you find that service useful, pay for it! You and I appear to understand this.
  • Dan Glynhampton
    Dan Glynhampton SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    mrzookie said:

    Eric,

    Thanks for the update. In response, here's some feedback I hope you'll consider:

    I've been using Quicken H&B for about 10 years now. I'm one of those customers who upgrade every three years, using software purchased from a partner, or from Quicken, at a discount. My cost of ownership has been, on average, about $20/year. The subscription model will surely increase that number substantially. That being said, I've also been a technology professional for over 25 years. I know what it takes to keep a complex application moving forward, up-to-date, and running well. $20 a year likely doesn't cut it. For that reason, I'm happy to pay the additional cost if there are tangible changes in product and service going forward.

    I'm cautiously optimistic about the move to the membership model, because its obvious to me that maintaining and improving all the various products has become untenable. Both product quality and support have deteriorated significantly in the time I've been a customer, to the point that it should be an embarrassment to you and the people who work for you. I'd have upgraded more often, but like many others, I've dreaded any time it came to do it. Even minor updates caused concern. I've never had that feeling with other software packages, and I've been using them since the days of the original IBM PC. I'm hoping that, with the increased revenue and ability to focus on fewer product versions, Quicken will be able to right its tilting ship. I know, from experience, that this is not going to happen overnight, but the membership model is a step in the right direction, and I fully will support you in this effort unless I get the sense that an appropriate portion of the new revenue is not going back into the product. 

    I consider Quicken to be an important financial tool, and if the company goes down, I suffer. Nonetheless, the risk is real and I fully expect that some users will discontinue the use of the product, creating more risk. Your job is to win them (and more) back, and it needs to be done with commitment  and quality.  I hope you see it that way too.

    So, right now, I understand and support your business vision - conditionally. In return, I ask the following commitments from you:

    (1) Fix the bugs. They are legion. Make it priority 1, before adding new functionality. Start with errors in logic/function, then the interface and finally less critical issues. Elicit feedback and suggestions from beta testers and the user community at large - there are some really bright and energetic people on this board. Pay attention to what they tell you before designing, coding and implementing. It takes time, effort and money, but as the saying goes "never enough resource to do it right, but always enough to do it again". 

    (2) Stop using customers as alpha and beta testers. Hire an experienced QC director and let that person do their thing.  A user should never have to dread doing an upgrade. It should be something to look forward to.

    (3) Fix the support function. Right now its an absolute mess. Wait times are insane, and reps are uninformed and/or don't know what they're doing. Its inexcusable.

    (4) Improve communications and customer relations. A small investment in these areas can go a long way to keeping the customer base and adding to it.

    I can't speak for others, but if you do this, and do it right, I will be fine with the membership model, and its additional cost. I would be then likely be willing to pay even more for well designed and implemented improvements and additions.

    Hope you take this in the spirit in which its intended.

    Best of luck (to all of us).

    "Wow, seems you are super-invested in Quicken (the company) Dan.  Do you have any financial connection to them?"
    No, none whatsoever. I'm just a user. What's more I'm one of the cheapskate users who didn't upgrade every year. 

    "FWIW, I never implied that HIG was a charity. "
    Well that's not how your post reads, but perhaps you didn't quite mean it that way. Jeffrey Wilens seems to have read it the same way as me though, his comment above that "Assets 'under management' is not money they are free to spend on Quicken" hits the nail on the head.

    And for all the wide experience that your CV contains, you are making a huge assumption when you say

    Instead, they change the revenue model (which looks like bad faith to most Quicken users) and say "trust us but pay us first, we'll make things better later".

    Now unless you have some financial connection to Quicken or HIG, you can't say that they haven't already made substantial upfront investment to the company. I don't know either, but it's 18 months since Quicken was sold by Intuit, so to state that the first thing they have done is change the revenue model is incorrect.
    US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v2004
  • Dan Glynhampton
    Dan Glynhampton SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    mrzookie said:

    Eric,

    Thanks for the update. In response, here's some feedback I hope you'll consider:

    I've been using Quicken H&B for about 10 years now. I'm one of those customers who upgrade every three years, using software purchased from a partner, or from Quicken, at a discount. My cost of ownership has been, on average, about $20/year. The subscription model will surely increase that number substantially. That being said, I've also been a technology professional for over 25 years. I know what it takes to keep a complex application moving forward, up-to-date, and running well. $20 a year likely doesn't cut it. For that reason, I'm happy to pay the additional cost if there are tangible changes in product and service going forward.

    I'm cautiously optimistic about the move to the membership model, because its obvious to me that maintaining and improving all the various products has become untenable. Both product quality and support have deteriorated significantly in the time I've been a customer, to the point that it should be an embarrassment to you and the people who work for you. I'd have upgraded more often, but like many others, I've dreaded any time it came to do it. Even minor updates caused concern. I've never had that feeling with other software packages, and I've been using them since the days of the original IBM PC. I'm hoping that, with the increased revenue and ability to focus on fewer product versions, Quicken will be able to right its tilting ship. I know, from experience, that this is not going to happen overnight, but the membership model is a step in the right direction, and I fully will support you in this effort unless I get the sense that an appropriate portion of the new revenue is not going back into the product. 

    I consider Quicken to be an important financial tool, and if the company goes down, I suffer. Nonetheless, the risk is real and I fully expect that some users will discontinue the use of the product, creating more risk. Your job is to win them (and more) back, and it needs to be done with commitment  and quality.  I hope you see it that way too.

    So, right now, I understand and support your business vision - conditionally. In return, I ask the following commitments from you:

    (1) Fix the bugs. They are legion. Make it priority 1, before adding new functionality. Start with errors in logic/function, then the interface and finally less critical issues. Elicit feedback and suggestions from beta testers and the user community at large - there are some really bright and energetic people on this board. Pay attention to what they tell you before designing, coding and implementing. It takes time, effort and money, but as the saying goes "never enough resource to do it right, but always enough to do it again". 

    (2) Stop using customers as alpha and beta testers. Hire an experienced QC director and let that person do their thing.  A user should never have to dread doing an upgrade. It should be something to look forward to.

    (3) Fix the support function. Right now its an absolute mess. Wait times are insane, and reps are uninformed and/or don't know what they're doing. Its inexcusable.

    (4) Improve communications and customer relations. A small investment in these areas can go a long way to keeping the customer base and adding to it.

    I can't speak for others, but if you do this, and do it right, I will be fine with the membership model, and its additional cost. I would be then likely be willing to pay even more for well designed and implemented improvements and additions.

    Hope you take this in the spirit in which its intended.

    Best of luck (to all of us).

    "Wow, seems you are super-invested in Quicken (the company) Dan.  Do you have any financial connection to them?"
    No, none whatsoever. I'm just a user. What's more I'm one of the cheapskate users who didn't upgrade every year. 

    "FWIW, I never implied that HIG was a charity. "
    Well that's not how your post reads, but perhaps you didn't quite mean it that way. Jeffrey Wilens seems to have read it the same way as me though, his comment above that "Assets 'under management' is not money they are free to spend on Quicken" hits the nail on the head.

    And for all the wide experience that your CV contains, you are making a huge assumption when you say

    Instead, they change the revenue model (which looks like bad faith to most Quicken users) and say "trust us but pay us first, we'll make things better later".

    Now unless you have some financial connection to Quicken or HIG, you can't say that they haven't already made substantial upfront investment to the company. I don't know either, but it's 18 months since Quicken was sold by Intuit, so to state that the first thing they have done is change the revenue model is incorrect.
    US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v2004
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited January 2018
    I too have been a Quicken user since the 1990's and only use it as my checkbook  (enter everything manually)- never wanting anything to go online, including my backup.  I have always backed up my data on a disk.  I only upgraded Quicken every 3 years because the ONLY feature I use is the checkbook and now I am being forced to pay an annual fee for that feature.  The main thing that I am upset about is that I am now LOCKED OUT of my files and have to upgrade to 2018 and pay the annual fee to access them.  Would someone please tell me how I can at least access my files.  I am not an accountant and I have professionals that handle most of my finances - all I need is a checkbook.
  • Dan Glynhampton
    Dan Glynhampton SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017

    I too have been a Quicken user since the 1990's and only use it as my checkbook  (enter everything manually)- never wanting anything to go online, including my backup.  I have always backed up my data on a disk.  I only upgraded Quicken every 3 years because the ONLY feature I use is the checkbook and now I am being forced to pay an annual fee for that feature.  The main thing that I am upset about is that I am now LOCKED OUT of my files and have to upgrade to 2018 and pay the annual fee to access them.  Would someone please tell me how I can at least access my files.  I am not an accountant and I have professionals that handle most of my finances - all I need is a checkbook.

    I think you'll need to explain more about why you are locked out of your files, there's no reason why you should be and it shouldn't be necessary to upgrade to Q2018 to solve it.

    Please start a new thread explaining your problem, giving details of you Quicken version and operating system and someone here can probably help you.
    US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v2004
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited December 2017

    With Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI?  Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?

    I'm going to jump in here and point out that the QIF import in Quicken 2018 is broken.  I don't believe this was a "policy change", I think it was a bug introduced.
    If anyone thinks that they will need to import transactions using QIF now, or in the future I hope you select "ME-TOO" on this problem thread:
    https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/qif-importing-into-quicken-windows-2018-is-broken-in-the-r2-3-patch-update
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2017

    With Quicken Data Access Guarantee, if I don't renew my subscription can I still use Webconnect to import transactions from my FI?  Can I save a QIF and import the transactions?

    I'm going to jump in here and point out that the QIF import in Quicken 2018 is broken.  I don't believe this was a "policy change", I think it was a bug introduced.
    If anyone thinks that they will need to import transactions using QIF now, or in the future I hope you select "ME-TOO" on this problem thread:
    https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/qif-importing-into-quicken-windows-2018-is-broken-in-the-r2-3-patch-update
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited October 2018
    I agree with every single negative comment in this forum.

     I have used Quicken since the very first edition--and used Microsoft Money until it ended. I am a programmer and writer. For the same reason I did NOT go with Office 365 but bought my own copy of Office, that is, lack of ownership of the product, I will not be upgrading to Quicken 2018 and agreeing to a one-year ownership model where I lose the utility if I do not renew.

    Too bad that Quicken is going with this model. It cannot be good for the user in the long run.
  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017

    I agree with every single negative comment in this forum.

     I have used Quicken since the very first edition--and used Microsoft Money until it ended. I am a programmer and writer. For the same reason I did NOT go with Office 365 but bought my own copy of Office, that is, lack of ownership of the product, I will not be upgrading to Quicken 2018 and agreeing to a one-year ownership model where I lose the utility if I do not renew.

    Too bad that Quicken is going with this model. It cannot be good for the user in the long run.

    I hate to burst your bubble, but you bought a license to use Office, there is only one owner of the Office software program and that is Microsoft.
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Dan Glynhampton
    Dan Glynhampton SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017

    I agree with every single negative comment in this forum.

     I have used Quicken since the very first edition--and used Microsoft Money until it ended. I am a programmer and writer. For the same reason I did NOT go with Office 365 but bought my own copy of Office, that is, lack of ownership of the product, I will not be upgrading to Quicken 2018 and agreeing to a one-year ownership model where I lose the utility if I do not renew.

    Too bad that Quicken is going with this model. It cannot be good for the user in the long run.

    You don't lose any more "utility" if you don't renew than you do today.  All recent versions of Quicken have been subject to the Discontinuation Policy, in which online services cease approximately three and a half years after the product's release.

    From Q2018 onwards the online services cease after 12 or 24 months (depending on where you purchase it), but you still have access to your data and can use the product manually (with the exception of the Starter Edition), see the Data Access Guarantee.
    US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v2004
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017

    I stopped using Quicken shortly after I paid to upgrade to 2015.
    Quicken is now very difficult to use.
    I do everything in Excel now - a lot less work.

    That's funny :-). All kidding aside, though, I usually model tricky investment calculations like splits, mergers, and wash sale adjustments in Excel before entering the transactions in Quicken.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    Mike said:

    Thanks Eric.  I have been using money management software since the late 80's, starting with Andrew Tobias' Managing Your Money.

    Before using Quicken, I had been using MS Money.  I was stunned when Microsoft decided to abandon MS Money and that's when I felt forced to purchase Quicken in 2009.  I now love Quicken and use most of the features.

    I am grateful that someone is committed to continuing the support and development of Quicken.  I am not sure what I would do without it, as using personal finance software is now like owning/driving a car.  I can't imagine life without it.  I feel in total control of my finances because I can track everything from net worth to my retirement investments and plan for the future.

    However, I am worried that Quicken can survive since Intuit and Microsoft abandoned personal desktop software. 

    Microsoft said that banks already provide features like Bill Pay. I would suggest Quicken drop features that might be a drain on Quicken. I use the heck out of most Quicken features, but I use free Bill Pay available from my Credit Union instead of what's available in Quicken.  (not saying drop Bill Pay unless it is a drain and most people don't use it - just an example :) 

    Focus on the things that will make people love and depend on Quicken (like being able to see the total financial picture, including net worth, lifetime planning and powerful reporting).  

    Wishing you success!

    I thought transaction downloading had a 2 year sunset period for Money.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2017
    Dan Glynhampton - I have a Dell Inspiron 15 (5000 series) with Windows 10, version 1709, 64-bit operating system, x64- based processor.  Quicken version is Deluxe 2015 for Windows.
  • Dan Glynhampton
    Dan Glynhampton SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017

    Dan Glynhampton - I have a Dell Inspiron 15 (5000 series) with Windows 10, version 1709, 64-bit operating system, x64- based processor.  Quicken version is Deluxe 2015 for Windows.

    Ok Susan, I'm going to take a guess here. Quicken have recently migrated from using the Intuit ID to the Quicken ID.  If you haven't applied the latest patches then your online services will have stopped working in the last few days.

    Please go to this support page, then download and apply the latest Mondo patch.  After you have installed it, run Quicken and if necessary create your Quicken ID and see if your problem is then resolved.

    Also, please be aware that all online services for Quicken 2015 will cease at the end of April 2018 (see the Discontinuation Policy) so you'll need to decide before then if you want to try and get hold of a copy of Quicken 2017 (which will expire in April 2020) or if you want to get Q2018 which has the new membership scheme.  If you are unsure of the difference it is discussed ad nauseum elsewhere in this forum.
    US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v2004
  • Unknown
    Unknown Unconfirmed
    edited November 2017

    I too have been a Quicken user since the 1990's and only use it as my checkbook  (enter everything manually)- never wanting anything to go online, including my backup.  I have always backed up my data on a disk.  I only upgraded Quicken every 3 years because the ONLY feature I use is the checkbook and now I am being forced to pay an annual fee for that feature.  The main thing that I am upset about is that I am now LOCKED OUT of my files and have to upgrade to 2018 and pay the annual fee to access them.  Would someone please tell me how I can at least access my files.  I am not an accountant and I have professionals that handle most of my finances - all I need is a checkbook.

    Besides, if you ONLY use Quicken as a checkbook AND you ONLY enter transactions manually, why in the world would you upgrade even every three years?  There is functionally nothing new in Quicken regarding using it as a checkbook register and creating reports since Quicken was a DOS product.  

    You will not be locked out of your files and you don't need to upgrade to Quicken 2018.  

    This is one of the most untrue posts on here.  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Unconfirmed
    edited November 2017

    I agree with every single negative comment in this forum.

     I have used Quicken since the very first edition--and used Microsoft Money until it ended. I am a programmer and writer. For the same reason I did NOT go with Office 365 but bought my own copy of Office, that is, lack of ownership of the product, I will not be upgrading to Quicken 2018 and agreeing to a one-year ownership model where I lose the utility if I do not renew.

    Too bad that Quicken is going with this model. It cannot be good for the user in the long run.

    To the regular contributors in this community...those other users that think they are getting something different than what they already own...just don't get it.

    NOTHING IS CHANGING IN QUICKEN...except for two things:

    1 Your downloads continue, albeit you'll need to pay for them every 12 months or 24 months...instead of paying for them every 42 months or less.

    2 The price will be lower if you upgraded every year and/or used Quicken's Bill Pay.  If you upgrade every two years, your price might be about the same.  If you upgrade every three years, you'll pay more.

    THAT'S IT.  NOTHING ELSE CHANGES. 

    What don't people seem to get here?
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2017

    I agree with every single negative comment in this forum.

     I have used Quicken since the very first edition--and used Microsoft Money until it ended. I am a programmer and writer. For the same reason I did NOT go with Office 365 but bought my own copy of Office, that is, lack of ownership of the product, I will not be upgrading to Quicken 2018 and agreeing to a one-year ownership model where I lose the utility if I do not renew.

    Too bad that Quicken is going with this model. It cannot be good for the user in the long run.

    I agree with your assessment. People see what they want to see. (e.g., look at the hardening of beliefs on both sides of the political spectrum.)


    I think the beginning of your comment - nothing has changed with Quicken - explains part of the problem. Look it it this way: if I buy/upgrade every two to three years, I'm more inclined to live with a increasingly mediocre product. Now that I have to pay every year, the financial pain associated with a less than sterling product with crappy tech support is more obvious.


    This is more an emotional issue than a logical one.
This discussion has been closed.