From Eric Dunn, CEO of Quicken: Letter to the Quicken Community about the Membership Plan (November
Comments
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@mistertheplague,Robert Karr said:I agree with every single negative comment in this forum.
I have used Quicken since the very first edition--and used Microsoft Money until it ended. I am a programmer and writer. For the same reason I did NOT go with Office 365 but bought my own copy of Office, that is, lack of ownership of the product, I will not be upgrading to Quicken 2018 and agreeing to a one-year ownership model where I lose the utility if I do not renew.
Too bad that Quicken is going with this model. It cannot be good for the user in the long run.
Thanks for your comment on my post which was intended strictly as a humorous comment on the actual ownership of the house under mortgage. It was not at all intended as a comment on the content of this thread.
Perhaps if the wording was 'Just points to consider when making the home ownership calculus'. The addition of the word 'home' might have made my intention more clear
Interestingly the crux of many of the points being made here are the technical as well as the legal differences in the connotations of the concepts of 'download', 'online services' and 'import'. It makes for great reading with many salient points being made.
Naturally, being a Quicken user since 1998 I have opinions on this. For now, I find it enlightening just to read the opinions and defenses being offered by others.
Peace
Steve0 -
@QPWTodd Erwin said:I purchased Quicken 2017 Premier last Spring when 2014 was being phased out. It is now November, and my financial institution, Chase, still does not support 2017 versions of Quicken. I do not see how going to a subscription model would benefit me when one of the world's largest banks is still one year behind on supporting your products.
"This isn't true. Some financial institutions look at the version number
that Quicken sends in its request for getting the transactions, and
blocks ones it doesn't want to support."
I do hate to be wrong, like every other human in the world, but i though that FI's basically agreed to allow access to the accounts via Quicken, which means adhering to whatever OFX dictates, until they don't want to do it any more.
In the absence of changes in the OFX schema, you're saying an FI might agree to support QXXXX-2, not support QXXXX-1, and support the current QXXXX? What's the rational behind that?0 -
As a general rule, the few FIs that check the app version do it as a precaution when a new version comes out until they test it. In the past I have seen this a lot with Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, and RBC among others) If this happens, you will get an appversion error.Todd Erwin said:I purchased Quicken 2017 Premier last Spring when 2014 was being phased out. It is now November, and my financial institution, Chase, still does not support 2017 versions of Quicken. I do not see how going to a subscription model would benefit me when one of the world's largest banks is still one year behind on supporting your products.
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You're saying that when a new version of Q is released - Q2016 let's say - that BofA, ML and RBC bounced back "appversion" errors, even though the schema for OFX didn't change from 2015 to 2016? (I'm assuming the declaration in the latter part of that question is true. I've never devoted much time to following changes in the standard.) Such that - at least for a time - BofA, ML and RBC supported Q2014, Q2015, but not Q2016?Todd Erwin said:I purchased Quicken 2017 Premier last Spring when 2014 was being phased out. It is now November, and my financial institution, Chase, still does not support 2017 versions of Quicken. I do not see how going to a subscription model would benefit me when one of the world's largest banks is still one year behind on supporting your products.
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Yes. In the past, they would frequently be a few weeks after release before it worked.Todd Erwin said:I purchased Quicken 2017 Premier last Spring when 2014 was being phased out. It is now November, and my financial institution, Chase, still does not support 2017 versions of Quicken. I do not see how going to a subscription model would benefit me when one of the world's largest banks is still one year behind on supporting your products.
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Todd Erwin said:
I purchased Quicken 2017 Premier last Spring when 2014 was being phased out. It is now November, and my financial institution, Chase, still does not support 2017 versions of Quicken. I do not see how going to a subscription model would benefit me when one of the world's largest banks is still one year behind on supporting your products.
Tom Young, frankly I think the financial institutions don't care about the OFX scheme changing. They seldom keep up with the latest version of OFX. There are ones still using OFX 1.0. OFX is done in a way that the client and servers can adjust for these differences.
The reason I think they block by version is something that people always blame on Quicken Inc/Intuit. The financial institutions don't want to support endless versions of Quicken. So yes they do actively block certain versions of Quicken.
BTW active block not only applies to versions of Quicken it applies to if the client is calling itself Quicken or not. Some personal finance program purposely send Quicken's identification and version information to get around the fact that the financial institutions don't support their software.
Here is what in the OFX file they are looking at:
<APPID>QWIN
<APPVER>26000 -
Actually putting this a different way "There are ones still using OFX 1.0. OFX is done in a way that the client and servers can adjust for these differences."Todd Erwin said:I purchased Quicken 2017 Premier last Spring when 2014 was being phased out. It is now November, and my financial institution, Chase, still does not support 2017 versions of Quicken. I do not see how going to a subscription model would benefit me when one of the world's largest banks is still one year behind on supporting your products.
Most likely Quicken doesn't even use any features that OFX 1.0 didn't have, so all it has to do is deal with the fact that there are basically two main formats 1.x and 2.x where the headers different and the keys in the old format can be <Key>Value without the trailing </Key> that the new format requires (like XML requires).0 -
Maybe I'm not understanding... why is it desirable to see the version number (e.g. 5.2.1) displayed all the time? I find it simple enough to pop up About Quicken to see this info whenever I want to check the version number.Doug Loskot said:I have been a Quicken for about 20 years. I have always been upset by the fact that I have to buy a new copy every 2 years just so I can keep the download function. Now I am really upset that I will have to pay for a new copy EVERY YEAR i.e subscription. In reading the comments above I feel the negative ones have been edited out. Quicken management if you DON'T want to lose more loyal customers don't require everyone to convert to the subscription model. I fell this is just a money grab. I do have to agree with a couple of comments I saw that the changes Quicken have made over the years have not always been for the better. I live in the San Francisco area and if you would like to form a user focus group I would be happy to be part of that. You really need more input from actual user and not a bunch of programmers that have to continue to make change to keep their jobs.
Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 19930 -
Well, they do offer one year or two years (or through Amazon, 27 months). They certainly could offer 3 years as well, but I would guess they chose not to because people would balk at a higher-still price of a 3-year subscription.Edgar said:With all due respect to the CEO's justification for going to a one-year activation so the company can focus on updating a single version of Quicken rather than having to maintain three yearly versions that are currently active at any given time... baloney.
Since the new continually updated version of Quicken has a rolling expiration date based on the date of actual installation, it would have been just as simple to assign a three year validity period as the one year period that they did.
It is all about the money -- tripling the cost for those Quicken Deluxe users who have traditionally only bought a new version every three years.Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 19930 -
I am having multiple connection issues every time I log into Quicken and have to reactivate and even delete and re-add accounts. Now, since the upgrade to 2018 there is no expense reminders in the home calendar. The best and most important features are not working and you are talking about costs and payments. Wouldn't is be more important to address the issues of functionality and accuracy of your product? Love Quicken and hope to continue to use/purchase but not if it doesn't work. Thank you.0
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I have been a Quicken user for over 20 years. I assumed I would always be a Quicken user but now I am looking for another software product. I used to have to upgrade every three years for full functionality but now that you are the new owners it will be an annual $50 automatic upgrade. To add insult to injury you sent out a "complimentary" CD without making it explicitly known to the customer exactly what you were doing. The fine print explanation is inadequate. I am so angry with your shameless money grab that I would update to a different software that was one penny less then yours. Shame on you!!! Your open letter is an insult. Do you honestly expect anyone to believe you made this change for any other reason then profit.Many Users who purchased Quicken from Intuit / Quicken, no longer have access to those programs. Will the past purchases, be moved to their new Quicken ID? Quicken 2015, Quicken 2016 and Quicken 2017?
When you sign into Intuit / Quicken with the old Intuit ID, it takes you back to Quicken.com to Sign in and when you sign in the purchases associated with your old Intuit User ID, have not been moved over to the new Quicken ID.
This includes Reward Copies as well.
Not to mention Canadian Customers.0 -
Being one of those folks that always waited until the last possible second to upgrade I never experienced those appversion issues that the early adopters might have encountered.Todd Erwin said:I purchased Quicken 2017 Premier last Spring when 2014 was being phased out. It is now November, and my financial institution, Chase, still does not support 2017 versions of Quicken. I do not see how going to a subscription model would benefit me when one of the world's largest banks is still one year behind on supporting your products.
My guess would be that those FI's that check appversion probably weren't actively "testing" the new version but instead the "Quicken Expert" in the IT Department, (AKA "Low man on the totem pole"), simply forgot to change the code.0 -
I can’t say what people will believe the reasons are, there’s a whole spectrum of responses in this forum, but don’t assume it’s a $50 per year charge, you can still shop around and get better deals.Many Users who purchased Quicken from Intuit / Quicken, no longer have access to those programs. Will the past purchases, be moved to their new Quicken ID? Quicken 2015, Quicken 2016 and Quicken 2017?
When you sign into Intuit / Quicken with the old Intuit ID, it takes you back to Quicken.com to Sign in and when you sign in the purchases associated with your old Intuit User ID, have not been moved over to the new Quicken ID.
This includes Reward Copies as well.
Not to mention Canadian Customers.
Assuming you’re talking about Quicken Deluxe (which is $49.99/year on the Quicken website), at the time of writing Best Buy are selling a two-year membership for $64.99:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/quicken-...
It's likely you’ll see other offers and discounts over the coming months too.
Since you have previously updated every three years it will probably be more expensive to stick with Quicken in the future, only you can decide what cost/year is worth it for the benefits you get from Quicken.US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v20040 -
I get far more than the price in value from Quicken and I support move to subscription model/rolling improvements. What I don't understand is why it's cheaper for a new Quicken purchaser to get it cheaper in retail store for two year subscription than it is for a long time user to get into subscription model? Am I missing something or is this is a bit of a slap in the face to long time users? MYM->Money->Quicken.0
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FWIW: I have Quicken H&B 2017 Rel 15. I am receiving banking/credit card error messages since the last update. I contacted their T/S and was told to contact Quicken since it was their problem. The last 5 days I tried to use Quicken 'chat'...which indicated a wait time from 6 to 17 minutes and never answered during a 1 hour and 15/30 minute wait. Tried the 800 # and was told it was 1 1/2 hour wait...has never answered. You've convinced me that it's not worth upgrading MDW0
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“What I don't understand is why it's cheaper for a new Quicken purchaser to get it cheaper in retail store for two year subscription than it is for a long time user to get into subscription model?”mtn_living said:I get far more than the price in value from Quicken and I support move to subscription model/rolling improvements. What I don't understand is why it's cheaper for a new Quicken purchaser to get it cheaper in retail store for two year subscription than it is for a long time user to get into subscription model? Am I missing something or is this is a bit of a slap in the face to long time users? MYM->Money->Quicken.
It isn’t. There’s nothing stopping anyone, existing user or not, from buying a two year membership from a retail store.US Quicken Deluxe for Windows Subscription R28.16 on Windows 10 Pro v20040 -
And then if you do finally get them, they have no idea what to do except basic troubleshooting off a script.Michael Webber said:FWIW: I have Quicken H&B 2017 Rel 15. I am receiving banking/credit card error messages since the last update. I contacted their T/S and was told to contact Quicken since it was their problem. The last 5 days I tried to use Quicken 'chat'...which indicated a wait time from 6 to 17 minutes and never answered during a 1 hour and 15/30 minute wait. Tried the 800 # and was told it was 1 1/2 hour wait...has never answered. You've convinced me that it's not worth upgrading MDW
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There has never been much of an incentive to buy from Quicken/Intuit except when they did a 50% markdown which wasn't very often.mtn_living said:I get far more than the price in value from Quicken and I support move to subscription model/rolling improvements. What I don't understand is why it's cheaper for a new Quicken purchaser to get it cheaper in retail store for two year subscription than it is for a long time user to get into subscription model? Am I missing something or is this is a bit of a slap in the face to long time users? MYM->Money->Quicken.
Their retail partners have generally always had better prices and it is that way so that the retailers have an incentive to sell it. If corporate Quicken was always cheaper, why would Staples or anybody else put it on their shelves?-splasher using Q continuously since 1996
- Subscription Quicken - Win11 and QW2013 - Win11
-Questions? Check out the Quicken Windows FAQ list0 -
@Todd Irwin - I am using Mac 2017 with Chase with no problems.Todd Erwin said:I purchased Quicken 2017 Premier last Spring when 2014 was being phased out. It is now November, and my financial institution, Chase, still does not support 2017 versions of Quicken. I do not see how going to a subscription model would benefit me when one of the world's largest banks is still one year behind on supporting your products.
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My concern is that with the new upgrade model, all customers will essentially be made part of a beta testing group for upgrades and will have to deal with much more frequent bugs.
THE KEY IS: "..and more resources can be directed to resolving bugs and maintaining the institution interfaces."
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Perhaps the most organized, most meaningful and perhaps best presented text from a Quicken User towards the Quicken Organization. Your 7 points should be posted on a chart on every wall within Quicken.. My compliments, @Artic Hare.Eric, thank you for communicating with the Community regarding the membership plan. This is a significant change that merits effective change management, with active leadership and sponsorship from the top of the organization.
I support the transition to the subscription model. In fact, I believe that the transition to the subscription model is essential to the longer term viability of Q. I've used Q for a long time - more than 20 years - and I would like to see the product continue to be available for another 20 years.
In my view, Quicken is a good value proposition at the new/current annual cost. I use both the banking and investing features. While I could find another way to manage my day-to-day banking, Q is indispensable for me on the investment side.
My experience with Quicken has been mixed. While I highly value the product, I've experienced some significant challenges and disappoints over the years. One of those disappointments was having to abandon my data file of ~20 years worth of history when it got corrupted through an upgrade process. Your PD team reviewed the data file and concluded that corruption could not be resolved.
A second example of my disappoints is this... As a Canadian customer, was probably one of the first customers to sign onto the subscription plan (early in CY2017). I can't think of any particular benefit I gained from upgrading from QC2016 to QC2017; however, I am very aware of the critical functionality that I lost to a defect introduced in the upgraded product. Your PD team introduced a (officially validated) defect into QC2017 that prevents (under any circumstance) population of the asset allocation portfolio rebalance table. It simply doesn't work. I've check back regularly with Q employees and, even now that we are anticipating the release of QC2018, there is no commitment to fix this defect. One of the main reasons I use (and subscribe to Q) is to help me in maintaining the asset allocation of my investment portfolio. This is an advertised/marketed feature of the product... that simply hasn't existed in the QC2017. This really is false advertising. I didn't need to upgrade... I still had a few years of support left on my QC2016 subscription, but I chose to upgrade... and my reward for spending the money on the upgrade was to lose one of the features most important to me. And, I reiterate, despite asking repeatedly, Q has made absolutely no commitment to fix the defect.
While I am fully supportive of the transition to the subscription model, it does, for me set some important customer expectations. I fully expect Q to do all of the following in relatively short order:- address festering product defects and address all (new) material defects in a timely manner;
- improve the quality of technical support;
- improve the reliability and robustness of Express Web Connect (because not all of us have access to Direct Connect);
- improve the robustness of Q database (reduce instances of data file corruption);
- improve communications and customer relations;
- improve the way Q solicits input from the user community; and
- improve product testing and quality.
Thanks again, sincerely, for communicating with community. I hope you are taking time, personally, to read our responses. I also hope that you adopt a practice of regularly communicating with the community.0 -
I am a long time Quicken user & now own Quicken 2017. I just received a CD in the mail to upgrade to Quicken 2018. After doing my due diligence I realize that this is now going to be an annual subscription of approx $50 per year. I will NOT be upgrading! I was buying a new version every 3 years. Thank goodness I will now have at least 2 years to find a replacement for Quicken. Unless you decide to go back to the old 3 year model I doubt I will change my mind. I may consider an annual fee if it were at least cut in half. Even then, the last thing anyone needs is another company promising to keep my credit card secure - Equifax anyone? I'm sure there are many customer like me that just don't use all the features & can get by with another product. I'm sure you will be losing a lot more customers. Of course, you already know that & are charging any remaining ones 3-5 times as much to make up for that. This is a money grab by the new owners like big Pharma buying a new drug & jacking up the price by multiples. At least with this is dead QIF files not people. Thank you for that.mtn_living said:I get far more than the price in value from Quicken and I support move to subscription model/rolling improvements. What I don't understand is why it's cheaper for a new Quicken purchaser to get it cheaper in retail store for two year subscription than it is for a long time user to get into subscription model? Am I missing something or is this is a bit of a slap in the face to long time users? MYM->Money->Quicken.
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The owners of Quicken have gotten greedy, there is no real competition, so they can charge whatever the market will endure. I have been using Quicken since Nov 1993, bought 8 different deluxe versions costing $208.76, 72¢/month not the $2.17/month being hawked. I don't need new features, only fix the problems artic hare so succinctly pointed out:
- address festering product defects and address all (new) material defects in a timely manner;
- improve the quality of technical support;
- improve the reliability and robustness of Express Web Connect (because not all of us have access to Direct Connect);
- improve the robustness of Q database (reduce instances of data file corruption);
- improve communications and customer relations;
- improve the way Q solicits input from the user community; and
- improve product testing and quality.
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The owners of Quicken have gotten greedy, there is no real competition, so they can charge whatever the market will endure. I have been using Quicken since Nov 1993, bought 8 different deluxe versions costing $208.76, 72¢/month not the $2.17/month being hawked. I don't need new features, only fix the problems artic hare so succinctly pointed out:
- address festering product defects and address all (new) material defects in a timely manner;
- improve the quality of technical support;
- improve the reliability and robustness of Express Web Connect (because not all of us have access to Direct Connect);
- improve the robustness of Q database (reduce instances of data file corruption);
- improve communications and customer relations;
- improve the way Q solicits input from the user community; and
- improve product testing and quality.
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Dan Glynhampton, just asking clarification. If I can manually enter data with the new subscription model, is there any difference between not renewing a subscription and what I currently can do after the 3 years are up?Marketing Guru said:I am currently on Quicken 2016 Home & Business. We use it for managing one rental property and doing light invoicing for our very small business. I can tell you that, given the $100 PER YEAR charge for 2018 and considering all the software problems Quicken has had, we will NOT be moving to the subscription model. You have effectively tripled cost of ownership for us.
I can't tell you the amount of time I invested in keeping Quicken working with my credit union (reset account, rebuild account, etc. etc.) when it finally turned out that some programmer had messed up the scripting for online access. It wasn't anything the CU had done but something the Quicken scripting department had farkled.
Further, each new iteration of Quicken has created new bugs to squash without adding any more real functionality. For example, in investment tracking, I have LONG wanted (and requested) the ability to create custom classes of investments so that an analysis would produce a more granular report than currently available. It's never happened. In addition, as banks create more two-step authorization systems, Quicken has increasingly failed to properly deal with them.
Whenever a company raises prices, it should only do so from a position of strength. I'm sorry guys, but that's clearly NOT where you are right now. "Bringing everyone to the same level" is NOT a customer benefit. It's a benefit for your company.0 -
"If they fail to do so, customers will simply stop paying and their revenues will dry up."mattyv123 said:A subscription service model puts the onus on Quicken to continue to innovate and provide continuous updates and features.
If they fail to do so, customers will simply stop paying and their revenues will dry up. As a subscription-based business, the whole team is strongly incentivized towards excellence (from customer service to development) to keep their current customers happy (not someone who bought it 4 years ago, running some outdated version, and having problems). It also provides the cash flow a tech company needs to grow and expand the software.
I'm sure this was a tough decision, but is just one of many that gives me confidence the new owners of Quicken are serious about building the product and will give it a bright future.
I don't see how a subscription puts anymore onus to continue (or perhaps begin) to innovate. Seems like the opposite. It's pretty well knows that automatic renewal is a much better retention method (as first demonstrated by the magazine publishers). But if they have to 'win' my money each time, then they need to convince me it's worth while parting with it.0 -
Under your math, not much more. But consider that in January 2015 I bought a bundle of Quicken and Turbo Tax for $59.54 and got a $40 rebate. So I got to use Quicken for about $20 for 3 years. A lot of other people did the same, and for us, this is a big jump in price. A high enough jump that I will continue using the version I have, and enter transactions manually. To me, Quicken is just a souped-up adding machine. They made changes to it every year, which to me, were unnecessary. I've been using Quicken since 1993 and I won't be buying into their money-grubbing subscription plan. I don't think I'll influence your thinking...Geneo56 said:You have sold me the last Quicken you will ever sell me.2017 Premier. Your subscription program is outright thievery . i usually update every year or every other year but will not be TOLD I HAVE TO. I have to use on computer for quicken only for WINDOWS. Quicken for MAC always is a joke.
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I won't be "upgrading" either. Especially after I found out about alternatives to Quicken on the mouseprint.org web site. They are: GnuCash, Moneyspire and MoneyDance. And if they don't work out for me, I'll just enter transactions manually, like I used to do.0
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As a longtime Quicken user, I snickered when I got the CD in the mail and saw the change to the subscription model. I was used to crazy games from Intuit. I can't think of a single useful new feature in the past 10 years. Most of the new "features" were simply ways for Intuit to sell us more products and services. We want stability, not bells and whistles.
I hope you stay true to your word and non-subscription services are still available from retailers. The recent CD shipment and hidden costs make me wonder if you're better than Intuit. Hopefully you do improve support, but please... focus on keeping the price low rather than wiz-bang features. It's already a competent product without any real competition.0 -
Yes, the big question is if that 2 year subscription or as Quicken calls it "membership" will continue past 2020 when Quicken 2017 users sunset. I have serious doubts about that. This move was all about the bottom line now that Quicken is separate from Intuit. They can mince and dice it anyway they want but it was the bottom line and projected revenue not the customer. So with Quicken 2017 I will ride out to the sunset and then make a decision going forward. What I would like to see is a guarantee that the 2 year model will be a permanent sales model for the retail side by Quicken. That model I can live with. In fact a 3 year model would work also. But again I have a feeling that 2 year model will be gone soon, and it will be a yearly charge to my credit card if I want to continue each year. No choice on price.Many Users who purchased Quicken from Intuit / Quicken, no longer have access to those programs. Will the past purchases, be moved to their new Quicken ID? Quicken 2015, Quicken 2016 and Quicken 2017?
When you sign into Intuit / Quicken with the old Intuit ID, it takes you back to Quicken.com to Sign in and when you sign in the purchases associated with your old Intuit User ID, have not been moved over to the new Quicken ID.
This includes Reward Copies as well.
Not to mention Canadian Customers.
I have been using Quicken 20+ years and love it. But I have a feeling its about to turn into a expensive yearly charge to my credit card going forward.
Also Quicken is joining a whole list of auto renewals like other software, Newspapers, Sirius XM, Cable companies. The one thing they all have in common is a lack of price competition at the retail level. That I avoid and do not support. Good luck going forward................................
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