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Need way to track Whole Life Insurance Asset/Cash Value (vs just Premiums)

RonBask

Life Insurance products like Term Life Policy and Cash Value Policy are Assets with expiry dates and values like $500k or $1Million even though the premium paid could be like $50/mo or $1000/mo etc. There should be a way to track the value of these as Assets, instead of categorizing these as Expenses, or instead of having to create Assets and Expenses separately. There should also be alerts if the expiry date is getting nearby, so user won't forget to extend these policies as needed. Thank you for considering this!

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Comments

NotACPA

The problem with your request is that you don't currently own the face value of the insurance (the $1MM or the $500K) and to record those numbers as an asset in your Q record would grossly distort your net worth.

Ps56k2

yeah - I was also thinking of all the various aspects of a Life policy.... vs Quicken
- Face value vs Cash value - vs Net Worth.... alive vs dead
- monthly or yearly premium - just a normal Quicken Bill Reminder

- expiration date.... decades into the future...

Pretty similar to thinking about a house vs mortage

Guess it all depends on what you want Quicken to track -
and what the numbers actually mean to you...
For me - I don't include any Life policy, or House in any of my Quicken accounts

UKR

The only place in Quicken for Windows where you can currently input a reminder about insurance policies' expiration date is the Alert Center (under the Tools Menu).

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/0w/3z88jq5hc7i4.png

Triggered Alerts show up as popup if marked Urgent or as entry in the Alerts view (which you can add to your Home page My Money view).

Alternatively you can add a Scheduled Reminder into one of your Cash accounts and mark it to remind you 90 or 180 days before the due date.

UKR

Ideas are brought to the attention of the programmers for consideration.

If you would like to see this enhancement made in a future version of Quicken please don't forget to vote on it. Locate the big blue box near the top of this webpage (or page 1 for long discussions) and click the "Up" triangle under the voting count.
Wait a moment for the vote count to be registered and updated before you continue.
The little triangle changes from grey to black when you have registered your vote.

Every vote counts!

Kingfish58

I list the cash value of a whole life policy under assets. No other term life policies are listed. Premiums paid are tracked under expenses.

I do not count any policy face values, but I would like a way to track these in Quicken.

skeleton567

I have two whole life policies with one company which are nearing 75 years old. First one my Dad started when I was less than a year old, for a whole $1000. Here's my developing approach.

Created an INVESTMENT type account for the insurance company. Within the account I created three 'securities' for each policy:

Policy 123456 (first policy)
Policy 123456 Div
Policy 123456 Int

Policy 654321 (second policy)
Policy 654321 Div
Policy 654321 Int

The first 'security' is the policy face value, which does not change. Then I 'bought' 1000 shares at $1.

Second 'security' records annual dividends as they are paid. I record the Div transaction that creates a cash balance which I then use for a 'buy' of the second 'security', the Dividend at $1.00 per share

Interest is recorded as an IntInc transaction, creating a cash balance which is then used for a 'buy' transaction of the third 'security', again at $1.00 per share.

I only have paper records of annual transactions beginning in the early 1960's, so created summary transactions for the balances that existed at that time.

Over the years as I have periodically withdrawn interest and dividend depostis, I record the sale of the appropriate 'securities' and a cash withdrawal transaction.

I'm toying with the idea of recording premiums as 'deposits' by myself to this account and 'cost of insurance' as withdrawals by the insurance company, each referring to the appropriate 'security' policy.

I should be able to selective include/exclude these accounts and the various transaction categories in order to do two types of reports, my net worth and/or my estate value.

Next I will move on to four more policies with a different company which historically accumulated cash value increase and additional coverage as premiums were paid. Unfortunately I created eight separate accounts in Quicken, four for face value and four for cash value. These records already exist in Quicken as two single accounts per policy, but will be combined into a single account for that company.

Ultimately the cash values of these four policies was liquidated and I purchased a single life insurance annuity which invests in mutual funds. The growth and income from the funds is used to pay the annual premium so I no longer have premium payments at all.

This is a work in progress as I experiment with different ways to record detail in meaningful ways. The overall goal is to do two things:

1. Correct the mistake of creating so many separate accounts by reducing it to only three historical accounts.

2. Simplify and add flexibility to my various reporting within the constraints of Quicken.

todd vogt

Is there a way to add a term life policy value simply for tracking purposes. I DO NOT want it to show up in the net worth calculation but I would like to have listed.

UKR

Since I'm not going to see a rusty penny of my Life Insurance contracts in my lifetime, I've added the policies to my Last Will and Testament and keep all this paperwork stored in a secure place. I recommend y'all do the same.

Rocket J Squirrel

todd vogt said:

Is there a way to add a term life policy value simply for tracking purposes. I DO NOT want it to show up in the net worth calculation but I would like to have listed.

If you really want to do this, create an Asset account and under Account Details > Display Options, check the box for "Keep this account separate." Then it will not show up in your net worth.

Martimouse

Its not perfect...but this is what I have done....

I have been using Quicken since 1995 and have struggled with the difficulty in tracking Whole Life Insurance policy - both the cash value and the death benefit. The only workaround I have come up with is to add an Asset Account for each policy and use the register to track the cash value. Premiums paid ARE an expense and are categorized as Insurance Premiums. My husband is significantly older than I am and has 3 policies and I have one whole life policy of my own. It is highly likely that, we *will* use our cash value for living expenses as an option for income to avoid the fluctuations in investment accounts and avoid the tax implications of withdrawals from qualified plans.

When I get my annual premium bill it will list dividends paid, paid-up additions added as well as the current death benefit (if that particular policy has an increasing death benefit, depending on how it was set up). I "update the balance" via a split transaction to include the increase to cash value as dividends, or paid-up additions and categorizing both as a something I use specifically as "DO NOT INCLUDE", I also make note of the current death benefit in the memo section of the split transaction.
I do not include (specifically EXclude them) any of the cash value/asset accounts in the life planner and have added the combined death benefit as "special income" in the Life Planer upon the death of the insured.

If anyone else has come up with an alternate solution I'd be very interested in hearing it.

NotACPA

"difficulty in tracking Whole Life Insurance policy"

A Whole Life policy DOES, typically, have a current value ... it's just not the "Payable upon death" amount, but something much lower. This CAN, properly, be tracked in an Asset account. This amount, which probably updates annually, can frequently be found in your policy documents.

BUT, the original question was about a TERM policy ... which has no value other than the "Payable upon death" amount, and expires worthless if you don't die during the Term.

jnprop

I too would like to see a place to track Whole Life Insurance cash values and then a place to record your Term Life policies.

Quicken Anja

Hello All,

The Community Support team regularly reviews long-standing posts and Ideas for relevancy and current interest. This Idea seems to have stalled and we would like to gauge the current interest in this request.

If you would like to see this idea implemented, please add your vote and a comment explaining how this idea would be beneficial for you. More information, including steps to vote and how to submit your own Ideas for future product features/improvements, is also available here.

Thank you,

Quicken Community Support Team

Lilykn

Yes I would find it useful for Whole Life Insurance

epski

> @"Quicken Anja" said:
> Hello All,
>
> The Community Support team regularly reviews long-standing posts and Ideas for relevancy and current interest. This Idea seems to have stalled and we would like to gauge the current interest in this request.
>
> If you would like to see this idea implemented, please add your vote and a comment explaining how this idea would be beneficial for you. More information, including steps to vote and how to submit your own Ideas for future product features/improvements, is also available here.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Quicken Community Support Team

Very much would like to track the net cash value of my whole life insurance policy, as well as any loans against it.

veasterday

Yes, please add a place to add life insurance. Would be most useful for family members to see.

Matt Tanous

I would find it very useful to be able to track the present Cash Value of my Ameritas life insurance policies. Right now I can see this in Mint (which is free), but not Quicken (which I pay for), which is frankly backwards.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Ps56k2

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20346118#Comment_20346118

And what exactly do you see in Mint - and where does this info come from …. manually entered or download ?
- Term or Whole Life ?

mddelaurentis

please make it happen to add whole life

Pambopammy

yes, it would be very helpful if there was a way to account for whole life insurance cash value as well as paid up insurance.

R Hudd

Add a whole life insurance capability to track - it is a real investment account

NomadDave

Agree, would be nice to easily track my whole life policies cash and loan values with a note to death benefit.

BLee

I have upvoted this topic. Have four policies with cash value and death benefit that pay premiums annually. The cash value should be an asset, the dividend income, and the premium an expense. Death benefit is not relevant to me, just my heirs.

Stairclimber113

Yes, I use Quicken for Mac and I currently am listing my universal life cash values as "investments". I would like a true category for this.

JoelC

A few points of clarification that may be helpful when thinking this through:

Term Insurance (Other than T-100): Has zero cash value but has a death benefit / face value. This is only an asset should the life insured die within the term. These policies are classified as temporary policies whereas the two below are classified as permanent polciies.

PAR / Whole Life Insurance: Has a cash and has a death benefit. The cash value is an asset and is owned by the policyholder (which can differ from the life insured). The dividends do matter depending on their type / use (i.e., they can be used to increase the cash value). The way these policies work is that the cash value converges to the death benefit over time.

To me, the case value should be tracked as an asset because it is owned and can be treated / used as cash at any time.

Universal Life (And T-100): These are the most complex of the 3 types as they can be structured very differently. They may / may not have a cash value. The cash value, if any, is an asset and is owned by the policyholder (which can differ from the life insured). The dividends do matter depending on their type / use (i.e., they an be used to increase the cash value).

The point being, the need to track, what to track and how to track all depend on the type of policy, the policy owner (versus the life insured) and (something I did not get into) the purpose of the policy. For a simple example consider the following, if a policy has been purchased to cover taxes on death (which is common) and the current Quicken setup does not track the taxes owing on death then I would suggest that including a life insurance policy as an asset is wrong because you would be counting the asset and but not the off-setting liability.

I hope this is helpful.

PS. If anyone wants to dig into further I would be happy to assist.

Martimouse

I continue to wish for the developers to find a way to address accurately reflecting the value of Whole Life Ins policies, as my husband and I both have policies.

It would make the "planning" wizard SOOOO much more valuable.

Chasbo12

Life insurance is a critical piece of any financial planning and cash values, dividends, etc. are current and usable assets and adding a wizard would be so useful in adding and tracking this.

skeleton567

I treat each policy as a security, then buy shares at $1.00 each, record dividends and interest as shares bought, etc. Has worked well for me