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Tax Planner Inconsistency

In Tax Planner, under Withholding - Self, the annual total in the Details box is not the total that is carried forward to the summary screen at the top of the page.  The difference is about $3,000 (detailed list shows more withholding).  

For details, I have selected "Scheduled Bills and Deposits".  If I make a different selection for the Projected Amount, and then flip back immediately to the original selection, the detail and summary totals agree using the number in the details box and they hold that for the remainder of that Tax Planner session.  But, the next time I open Tax Planner they are back to the exact same numbers in disagreement.  This has been a repeatable problem for about two months.  It started about the time I installed R24.14, but I can't swear it started with that rev.  I have reinstalled Quicken, which the web site says will also auto-run QCleanUI, with no joy.

Using Windows subscription version R25.21, running on Windows 10 Pro.  Anyone else seeing this?  Any suggestions to fix?
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Comments

  • Quicken Anja
    Quicken Anja Moderator mod
    edited April 2020
    Hello @Ray Cosner,

    Thank you for reaching out to the Community concerning the issue you are experiencing and I apologize that you have not received a response yet.

    Given the extent of the issue that you are experiencing, which can also have multiple causes-- I recommend reaching out to Quicken Support instead as you will likely need extensive troubleshooting done in order to have this successfully resolved.

    Quicken Support Current Hours of Operation:
    Monday through Friday
    8:00 am to 5:00 pm PDT
    Note: Chat Support will also be available for these hours 7 days a week.

    -Quicken Anja
    -Quicken Anja
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    Update - I still have a problem, but it has changed somewhat.

    Last Saturday, April 4, I uninstalled Quicken from the Windows Settings | Apps screen, then reinstalled it with a fresh package downloaded that morning from Quicken.com.  

    A step forward - I no longer have the issue of the detailed withholding data in Tax Planner not agreeing with the summary data on the same page.

    A step backward - Two of the Tax Planner categories do not retain the setting to use "Scheduled Bills and Deposits" to project to end-of-year status.  Instead, they shift on their own to "Use Pay Period Amount" when I close and then re-open Tax Planner.  This was not happening before April 4.  Only two of my Tax Planner categories are affected as far as I know (not all of them have any data, however).  In the other categories, the selection to use "Scheduled Bills and Deposits" is retained from one session to the next.  The two misbehaving categories are (1) Withholdings | Self (the same one that had the original problem, above) and (2) Other Income or Losses | Taxable IRA/Pension Distributions.

    I will follow up with Quicken Support as you advise.  Based on prior experience, I will do that when I don't need to do anything else for a couple hours.
  • markus1957
    markus1957 SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    I'd also encourage you to run a validate and super-validate on your data file.  Also, File>File Operations>Copy.
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    My problem cleared up on its own a few days ago, apparently due to either the R26.15 update (installed 4/21/20) or R26.17 update (installed 4/24/20).  Since then, I've used Tax Planner in three sessions without any issues.  

    I had reported my issues via Quicken's "Report a Problem" function, in addition to this forum, but I had no indication that anyone at Quicken Inc. ever read that report.  In any event, I currently am not experiencing any issues in Tax Planner.  Thanks, however, for your suggestion.
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    Q will NEVER respond to one of those reports unless THEY need more info.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    @markus1957 - My Tax Planner problem returned this morning.  Very odd - nothing changed from the three days before, when it worked fine.  No Quicken updates, no change to OS, no nothing.  Each time it fails, the incorrect data is exactly the same: same fields and same (wrong) numbers.

    Anyway...

    Following your advice, I did a Copy, Validate, Super-validate.  The Validate found/fixed three errors, and the Tax Planner problem remained.  I'd never had a validation report before that entirely fit in one screen with room to spare, but that's what happened this morning.  After Super-validate, it looks like it's running correctly.  I'll give it a week before I consider the problem solved.  Thanks.
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    I've been having Tax Planner issues (very similar to Ray's) since an update in November 2019. I've run the Validation tools to no avail. Specifically, my problems were with "Withholding" driven by very detailed and meticulous "Scheduled Bills and Deposits" after setting up deposits using the Paycheck Wizard. What bothers me is that the Tax Planner was accurate to the rounded dollar through November 2019 and hasn't worked properly since. I've given up and now resort to "User Entered" in the Tax Planner tool. I'm getting the result (answer) that I need but it now requires extra work on my part. On a personal note, I think both the Tax Planner and Lifetime Planner are invaluable tools within the Quicken application and I depend on both of them for short and long term planning. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's enough of us who use either (or both for that matter) of these planning tools to inspire Quicken to address a problem. I'd like to hear comments on that premise please.
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    Tax Planner has been good for me the past three days, since my post of April 28.  It was fixed (I hope it's truly fixed) by doing a super-validate.

    Just in case you don't know how to launch that, hold down the CTRL-Shift keys when you click Validate on the File menu.    

    Also, copy to a new QDF file (again under the File menu).  That apparently does a record-by-record copy and eliminates a lot of debris.  My QDF file shrank by 10 MB when I did the copy.
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    Ray, I did the super-validate, to no avail. I'll try it again but I really think there are simply not enough of us who utilize the Tax Planner tool to make a difference. Let me try again. Thanks.
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    If that fails, then I'm out of suggestions but let me know your result after the super-validate.

    Another user who has given me good advice in the past on Tax Planner is @markus1957 - any suggestions, Markus?
  • markus1957
    markus1957 SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    I'd like to see the details for the Reminder causing the problem.  Which splits from the reminder are not showing up in Tax Planner? 

    Yours' was an erratic display of data issue, whereas this latest issue may be more of a consistent rejection of a particular category in a paycheck split. It's not clear.
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @markus1957 : Ok, please allow me to provide some details and we'll see if you can provide me some guidance. Before I begin please allow me reiterate this problem began after an update in late 2019. Prior to that my paycheck wizard deposit withholding information was captured accurately to the rounded dollar. So, here we go: My wife and I are retired and receive pensions. Within the paycheck wizard I set the income category as: Retirement Income-Pensions and Annuities. For the withholding my category is: Tax-Federal. My wife's is the same income category and her withholding is: Tax Spouse-Federal. When I go to my Category list under Tax Line Item both withholding's say: 1099-R: Pension Federal Tax Withheld. Again, before you share your thoughts I have to repeat that my Tax Planner tool was working as intended for about the first 10-11 months of 2019. We had an update in November 2019 and the withholding has not worked correctly since. In other words, common sense tells me I was executing this tool properly until an update.
  • markus1957
    markus1957 SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    Not questioning whether it use to work.   When I retired, I deleted the paycheck split from my employer and started using regular income reminders for social security and pension income.  The regular income reminders report as expected in Tax Planner.

    I'm willing to test/help with the Paycheck module as it should probably work keeping in mind that Tax Planner does not have separate columns for spousal pensions and social security like it does for wages.  But you still haven't specified what lines in your paycheck split are not showing up in Tax Planner. 
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @markus1957 : The two (Tax: Federal and Tax Spouse: Federal) Withholding deductions are not showing up. Remember, inputting manually (which I'm doing now) works. It just shouldn't have to and previously wasn't necessary. But if the manual inputs are what's necessary I can live with them given I'm getting the bottom line answer I need.
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    For what it's worth, I am in a similar situation to markus1957- retired in 2015, used the paycheck form before retiring, and shifted to recurring income reminders for both my and wife's pensions after retirement.  The recurring reminders include expense splits for Federal and state withholding.  So, I've now been using this approach since 2015.  All of it shows up just fine in Tax Planner, except for the issue that arose in February and now seems to be resolved.

    I dump our two pensions' net income into the same Q category together with the two contributions to federal and state withholding.  Since we file jointly, I didn't see it as a worthwhile complication to keep them separate.
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @Ray Cosner : Ok Ray, thanks. I'll try it your way. I really have nothing to lose given that we file jointly as well. It's just unfortunate because it was working fine (until the update.)
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    The mystery deepens.

    As discussed above, I did a Copy - Validate - Super-Validate sequence on April 28, and for several days after that Tax Planner was working fine.

    On May 2, my old problem returned - same two tax fields, same repeatable behavior.  This morning (May 4) I opened Quicken, saw that the Tax Planner problem was present, and I immediately ran Super-Validate.  The problem disappeared, it now appears to be running properly once again.  My recent experience is that the problem will return in three days (more or less).

    The Super-Validate report only shows one issue, related to a stock split that occurred back in 1996.  The part of the report on this issue is: "Quicken has found 1 stock split(s) for account "Boeing 401(k)", security "McDonnell Douglas", on 6/3/1996 that might be missing.".  I have ignored this error over the years because McDonnell Douglas ceased to exist in 1997, the Boeing 401(k) account was closed years ago, and I have no ready access to data that would allow me to correct this reported error.  As a reminder, this Tax Planner problem started in February 2020 and Tax Planer ran perfectly for many months prior to that.

    This squawk remains after running Super-Validate a second time today with Tax Planner operating properly immediately before and after, so I don't think that's my problem.  All other elements of the Super-Validate report are completely clean: "No errors" and "No out of range references".  

    Presumably, my problem is due to something Super-Validate resets or corrects, but it is not mentioned in the log report.  Does Quicken have an "Ultra-Super-Validate" that reports on everything the Super-Validate does?  Or, can someone tell me about what Super-Validate checks or rests without reporting on it in the log file?

    I will report this new information to Quicken.com via the "Report a Problem" function.  I have no expectation that this will lead to a solution.

    My working hypothesis now is that some other piece of software that I use every few days is interfering with Tax Planner.  I see this as a weak assumption, but I have no other ideas.  Since no one else seems to be having this problem, I am ruling out, for the time being, my widely-used software: things that ship with Windows 10, and Microsoft Office.  That doesn't leave much.  I have no software that comes from a dodgy source - it's all from reputable sources with many users, that have been in business for years.  I will keep a log of software I open, so that I can cross check when the Tax Planner problem returns.  This will be a slow process.

    Unless someone on this forum brings forth some new suggestions or asks me to continue adding to this thread, I am going to treat this as a unique (to me) issue and I will stop using forum bandwidth for this problem.
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @Ray Cosner : I sincerely hope you keep adding to this thread and I'd like to know what other software you're using for Tax Planning purposes. Please remember that I stated (earlier) in this thread that I believe there are simply not enough of us that use the Tax Planner (or Lifetime Planner) to begin with so this problem is not high enough on Quicken's agenda to address. As of today I'm extremely confident in my Tax Planner output but that's because I'm utilizing "User Entered" as opposed to allowing Quicken to utilize "Scheduled Bills and Deposits" for both Pension Income and Withholding. It's certainly not ideal at all Ray, but then again I don't believe there are enough of us upset over this bug.
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    I use TurboTax to prepare and file my taxes, but I don't use anything else during the year to plan my taxes.  I have not opened TurboTax in the last several weeks.

    I have filed a report with Quicken, as I threatened to do.  

    I have had terrible experience with Quicken premium phone support (sic), and so far I have not attempted to reach them for this issue.  A couple years ago I had a problem and tried to reach their phone support.  I made three attempts.  First, I waited on the phone until hanging up without speaking to anyone after one hour 45 minutes.  The second time, I hung up after one hour 20 minutes.  The third time I thought, "I've seen this movie before" and I hung up after 20 minutes.  Thus ended my experience with Quicken phone support.

    I will stay on this forum for at least one more round of attempted resolution.
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @Ray Cosner : I use TurboTax as well. But you said the magic word: "prepare." Turbotax is an outstanding tax preparation tool; it is not (in my opinion) a tax planning tool. Yes, I know it projects Estimated payments but it does not meet my wishes/desires in terms of planning. With respect to filing a report with Quicken I'm not very confident in what you'll hear. My experience is that this Community is a tremendous asset in terms of problem solving. The Superusers like @markus1957 have been my lifeline when I've had challenges. Thank you for keeping this thread open for at least one more round.
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    Poor choice of words.  I don't use TurboTax OR anything else to plan my taxes.  Only Quicken Tax Planner.

    I also see this Community as my go-to source for advice.  They have solved several problems for me in the past.  Quicken.com has never come through, either by phone or by the automated "Report a Problem".

    When I filed the automated report this morning, I put a sentence at the end that I would be glad to participate in a shared session with them.  That was probably a waste of perfectly good bytes.
  • markus1957
    markus1957 SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    Save a Windows copy of your data file into a different folder before trying this. You can return to this copy if it does not work.  Do not run OSU in the new file until you are satisfied it looks OK.  I'm hoping you both have cloud sync in Preferences toggled to OFF; if it is on, corrupted reminders could get added back to the file.

    Both of you might have some corruption in your Reminders table.  You should delete all reminders; including any suggested reminders. Close Quicken.

    Open Quicken while holding the Ctrl key; it will open to a blank screen. Run super-validate from the menu by navigating to the file in the super-validate window. Close Quicken and open the now super-validated file.  Run the File>File Operations>Copy on that file; choose open the copy and try adding some reminders and check the behavior of Tax Planner.

    If it seems to work, add back all of your reminders.  If your satisfied it is in no worse shape than your original file, run an OSU to make sure all functions are normal.  If you are syncing to mobile/web, do a Reset Cloud File before running OSU. If that turns out OK, close Quicken. In Windows Explorer, rename the cpy file to your original file name or choose a new name.  Use this renamed file from now on.

    If it does not work, delete the newly created files and copy the original file back to the Quicken file directory; you should be no worse off than before you started.


    Ideally, the super-validate would resolve the corruption in the Reminders table but the only way I know of doing it is to delete all of the entries and start over.
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    @markus1957 - Thanks for the detailed instructions.  I have gotten as far as opening Q to a blank screen and then running super-validate.  When the super-validate completed, it opened automatically with my data file.  I checked the scheduled transactions, and six of them had been resurrected - all of them are suggested transactions due in the next seven days.  I deleted them, repeated the steps to open Q to a blank screen, and run super-validate, and the same six were back again as suggested transactions.  

    I am treating this as inconsequential, and I am proceeding with the rest of your instructions.  I have created reminders for the major income and withholding events, and the Tax Planner data looks fine so far.  I am proceeding with entering the remaining reminders.  I want to keep an eye on this for a week or so before declaring victory.

    @artg - I have discovered an error in what I said earlier in this thread.  My pension was entered using the paycheck form, which is not what I said earlier, and I am re-entering that data now as a regular reminder.
  • markus1957
    markus1957 SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    No I'm running a the beta version of subscription, but had been running R26.17 just a few days ago.

    If you can't get rid of them, try deleting them and running the File>File Operations>Copy instead of a super-validate.  Open the cpy file when prompted and see if they are there in the copied file.

    I'd say you have confirmed corruption in the reminders table.  If you ever are able to get a higher tier support contact, the zombie reminders would be useful for troubleshooting.  Feel free to keep bouncing ideas in this thread; I'll offer what help I can but the options are limited.
  • markus1957
    markus1957 SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    @Ray Cosner  Correction- I missed the "suggestion" part. That is OK.

    If you want to turn off the suggestions, go to Tools>Bill & Income Reminders, Options, Suggest Reminders button in upper right. If not greyed out click Decline All Suggested Reminders and then uncheck Review My accounts for Reminders to Suggest.

    That will get rid of the six and should prevent them from being suggested again.
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    I've been using Quicken Tax Planner for a week since implementing the @markus1957 suggestion to delete all scheduled reminders, copy, super-validate, and re-enter the scheduled reminders.  I did all that on Monday, May 4.

    Since then, Tax Planner has been completely reliable.  All the steps I tried previously to resolve this issue failed within ~3 days.  I've used Tax Planner every day in the intervening time, and I have had several transactions that have modified my projected tax data.  So, with fingers crossed, I think this suggestion has cured my problem.
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @Ray Cosner : I'm happy for you; truly happy. I did not follow @markus1957 suggestions only because I have so many reminders that the overall task would have been much harder then simply inputting my Withholding manually (known as "User Entered") in the Tax Planner. I think @markus1957 is correct in his assumption that we have some type of corruption in our Reminders tool. I've just decided to live with it given how many reminders I have. If there was another way I'd try it.
  • Ray Cosner
    Ray Cosner Member ✭✭✭✭
    When @markus1957 posted that suggestion, I also was reluctant due to the number of reminders I have, and I considered just living with the problem.  In my case, I had about 40 reminders.

    There is a handy but inconspicuous button on the window with the list of scheduled reminders, in the extreme upper right corner.  It allows you to print the reminder list including payee, repeat interval (if any), and amount and date of the most recent payment using that reminder.  It does not print any category splits in the reminder.  When I found that button, I decided to proceed with his recommendation, after making notes on category splits in my income reminders (pension, Social Security).
  • markus1957
    markus1957 SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    @artg - If you haven't declined and turned off the Suggest Reminders option, you should at least try that.  If the corruption is in that portion of the table, maybe that would clear it up.
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @markus1957 : Thank you Markus but "Decline All Suggested Reminders" and nothing is checked. i'm still open to any (and all) suggestions that does not include deleting and starting over on my reminders. I didn't count mine but I think I'm at least right there with @Ray Cosner and his forty, if not more.
This discussion has been closed.