Where do funds come from, and where do they go?

Karl

I'm seeking a report that show how income and funds that I'm drawing from asset or liability accounts, is being spent, whether on expenses, paying down liabilities or increasing assets. Sort of a combined net worth and income statement.

Since money doesn't get created or destroyed but always comes from or goes to somewhere, the net of Inflows and Outflows in any given period should be zero. I'd've thought that's what a Cashflow report should do, but when I generate one, it always has a number on the bottom line! Where does that money come from!? Or, go to!?

Can anyone suggest how'd I do that report?

Jim_Harman

I'm confused. In your Spends and Sources example, you describe "What did we spend our money on and where did it come from?" But later you say you want "Where does the money we make go?"

But in either case, wouldn't the answer in general include that part of the money went to increasing or decreasing your account balances?

Try this:
-- Create a Banking > Cash Flow report with the default organization of "Cash Flow basis"
-- In the report customization, select the accounts you consider to be your "spending" accounts
-- On the Advanced tab, set Transfers to Exclude internal. This will show transfers from/to accounts you have not selected but not transfers between the selected accounts.

The report will have an "Inflows" section that shows where incoming money came from, an "Outflows" section that shows where the money went, and an overall total that shows the difference.

Note that the report will include any Income categories in the Inflows section and Expense categories in the Outflows. A negative expense, a refund against a spending category for example, will be recorded in the Outflows section.

Karl

Jim, this is very close. But there is still a deficit or surplus number in the "Overall Total" bottom line. Where does THAT money come from if a deficit, or go to, if a surplus? Well, from bank & credit card "spending" accounts of course, but they don't show on the report because they're excluded by the Exclude Internal transfer option. Do I need to exclude/include the same or the opposite accounts in the Categories tab?

It's the first time I've gotten an inkling to understanding the Transfers display options BTW, so thanks there too.

Jim_Harman

@Karl, 

The deficit or surplus is the change in the balance of the accounts you have selected. If you have spent or transferred out more money than you deposited or transferred in, this number will be negative.

Karl

Yup, I see that as I play with it. By restricting the selections to accounts that don't hold large balances, I can get the net pretty close to zero, and just consider it "spending account fluctuations." Thank you so much for the help--I've been desultorily working on this report since I started using Quicken in 2000.

NotACPA

Look at a Cash Flow report.

Karl

Cashflow report doesn't quite do it: it always shows a "balance." Where does that money come from/go to?

Chris_QPW

It your assumption that everything should zero that is incorrect.  Money can come and go from "no where" or more precisely money can come or go from outside of your books/Quicken.

You are expecting a double book system where if you add up all the books you will get zero.

If you enter a deposit, where is the opposing transactions that will zero it?

Unless you spend every cent of it will not come out to zero.

NotACPA

Is your checkbook $0? (I hope not).  But that's what you're asking of Q, which uses a Checkbook metaphor.

Karl

Appreciate the fast input. No, my bank account starts at (say) $1000, and when the balance goes to (say) $600, I want to see where that $400 went:

SPENDS
Buy MSFT, $100
Beer, $100
Mortgage P, $150
Mortgage I, $50

SOURCES
Bank, $400

NET, $0.

Is that a "Changes report?"

NotACPA

Looks to me like it went to buy MSFT, Beer and pay your 2 mortgages. 

Why doesn't an Income & Expense report (customized to show the single month) not work for you?

OR, are you expecting a Net Worth report and an Income/Expense report to be a single report?

Karl

Exactly--I want a combined "Where From/To" report. The income report doesn't do it alone because it doesn't show transfers to asset and liability accounts. I want a report that answers the question, "where does the money we make go?"

NotACPA

There is, in accounting, no such thing as this "combined report".

Balance sheet items (Net worth) are balance sheet and Income/Expense are Income/Expense ... and never the twain shall meet.

You'll just need to create both reports to see what you want.

Karl

LOL. That's what I told my wife (who is the CPA, believe it or not). I can do it in Excel, but it takes an hour each time, too onerous for monthly reporting. It's not a GAAP-rules financial statement I want, it's a understand-my-finances report. I've been looking for 20 years, so will give it a rest for a while. Thanks for the interest and input.

NotACPA

And, if you read my signature lines, I'm a retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" and  Bank Audit VP.

My usual comment is that the letters CPA and CPU are mutually exclusive.  If you have one, it's unlikely that you'll understand the other.

In actuality, the primary difference is that a CPA needs to know nothing about computers (a CISA needs to know everything) and a CISA needs to know nothing about "Timing and Recognition of Income and Expenses" (a CPA needs to know everything).

Also, the few people that I know who hold  both certifications will tell you that the CISA is every bit as difficult to achieve as the CPA (which includes both my brother and my late father)

Jim_Harman

I'm confused. In your Spends and Sources example, you describe "What did we spend our money on and where did it come from?" But later you say you want "Where does the money we make go?"

But in either case, wouldn't the answer in general include that part of the money went to increasing or decreasing your account balances?

Try this:
-- Create a Banking > Cash Flow report with the default organization of "Cash Flow basis"
-- In the report customization, select the accounts you consider to be your "spending" accounts
-- On the Advanced tab, set Transfers to Exclude internal. This will show transfers from/to accounts you have not selected but not transfers between the selected accounts.

The report will have an "Inflows" section that shows where incoming money came from, an "Outflows" section that shows where the money went, and an overall total that shows the difference.

Note that the report will include any Income categories in the Inflows section and Expense categories in the Outflows. A negative expense, a refund against a spending category for example, will be recorded in the Outflows section.

q_lurker

Karl said:

...  The income report doesn't do it alone because it doesn't show transfers to asset and liability accounts. ...

You can customize the Income/Expense by Category report to include all transfers (advanced tab).  That type of customization applies to many reports.  Why does that not accomplish what you are after?

Karl

Doesn't do it, because each period shows either a surplus or a deficit. That's fine for an income statement, but in cash terms that money GOES to or COMES FROM some account, and I want to know which.

Karl

Jim, this is very close. But there is still a deficit or surplus number in the "Overall Total" bottom line. Where does THAT money come from if a deficit, or go to, if a surplus? Well, from bank & credit card "spending" accounts of course, but they don't show on the report because they're excluded by the Exclude Internal transfer option. Do I need to exclude/include the same or the opposite accounts in the Categories tab?

It's the first time I've gotten an inkling to understanding the Transfers display options BTW, so thanks there too.

Chris_QPW

I personally was going to suggest including the transfers, but never found a combination that did what you wanted.  Including selecting all the transfers on the Advanced tab.  But maybe Jim will find a better combination. 

Chris_QPW

For what is worth digging into it I find that adding in the transfers doesn't add anything to the picture.  What I'm seeing is that my transfers offset each other.

And in fact that bring me back to my original comment.  In a pure dual book system you would have a book that offsets every transaction.  You don't have that in Quicken.

There isn't a book for "Employer" for instance for where your paycheck comes from.

Chris_QPW

Of course you could setup other such accounts and maybe get this to work that way.  But of course you will increase your workload as you have to change a lot of simple transactions into transfers to a manually entered account(s).

Jim_Harman

@Karl, 

The deficit or surplus is the change in the balance of the accounts you have selected. If you have spent or transferred out more money than you deposited or transferred in, this number will be negative.

Karl

Yup, I see that as I play with it. By restricting the selections to accounts that don't hold large balances, I can get the net pretty close to zero, and just consider it "spending account fluctuations." Thank you so much for the help--I've been desultorily working on this report since I started using Quicken in 2000.

Karl

Actually Jim, one more thing. Can you suggest a way to show accounts with transfers both in and out, only once, on the side in which they're positive? For example, I draw 200 from Line of Credit and pay back 20, I would prefer to show just the net in the Inflows section as "FROM Line of Credit, 180".

Tom Young

NotACPA said:

Balance sheet items (Net worth) are balance sheet and Income/Expense are Income/Expense ... and never the twain shall meet.

You'll just need to create both reports to see what you want.

No, they have to meet or you've got an unbalanced set of books.  This all plays out in the (unseen) Net Worth "account."  If you look at a public company's financial statements you'll see the meeting in a report usually titled "Statement of Shareholder's Equity" or something similar.  Quicken doesn't have the analog to that statement, you have to create it yourself to see if you've somehow screwed up.

Chris_QPW

Karl said:

Actually Jim, one more thing. Can you suggest a way to show accounts with transfers both in and out, only once, on the side in which they're positive? For example, I draw 200 from Line of Credit and pay back 20, I would prefer to show just the net in the Inflows section as "FROM Line of Credit, 180".

The FROM and the TO are two sides of the same transfer and they are opposing Inflow/Outflow, you can't force them to be something they aren't by having them reported in what the wrong place.  BTW you can remove one or the other from the report by going into the categories and deselecting the one(s) you want [Account], but that isn't going to give you what you want.  It will give you an off balanced report.

NotACPA

An Income & Expense report doesn't include your prior balance nor your ending balance.  Just the items for that particular time period.

A Balance Sheet report (Net Worth) doesn't include what the particular changes are, nor doesn't show the transactions that created the changes in balances (i.e., the transactions).

Thus, they only "meet" in the strictest of terms ... and nothing like the OP is requesting.