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How to reclassify transactions from BoughtX to Bought

My new 401k managed account treats all buy transactions as BoughtX when downloading the transactions to Quicken. This means that the transaction amount is not taken from the cash balance in the account. I have set up my paycheck in Quicken to split my pay according to where the money goes and automatically deposit my 401k contribution into my 401k account. What this all means is there continues to be an increase in the cash balance in that 401k account and when looking at the value in Quicken, it is double what is really in that account (the cash plus the investments).

Is there a way to automatically change the BoughtX to Bought in those transactions so that the cash for the investment transaction comes from the 401k cash balance? I have thought of manually changing every BoughtX transaction to a Bought transaction but this is tedious as there are 28 transactions per payday and there are 2 paydays per month so that means a lot of fixing transactions. Also I have about 8 months of these types of transactions (somewhere in the order of 400+ transactions to change)

Alternately is there a better way of handling the transfer of the cash from my paycheck split into this investment account so that cash is not accumulated into the balance of the 401k account?

Does anyone have any ideas on this?

Best Answer

  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    edited August 6 Accepted Answer
    Continued from my last posted comment highlighting the errors in Quicken.

    @Boatnmaniac @Chris_QPW @Jim_Harman @q_lurker @NotACPA @UKR

    What I finally did to set up my new 401K account after my experimenting with Quicken:

    Keep in mind that I am trying to set up a new 401K account in my existing Quicken file where I already have a “Gross Amount Paycheck” and the new FI uses Web Connect for downloading QFX files in order to update the Quicken account. I want all transactions to be Bought and Sold etc. rather than BoughtX and SoldX etc. because I use the Gross Paycheck method of tracking my paychecks. If you are going to try this you need to first set up a test file from your exiting Quicken file and test that the procedures will work for you.
    I started with the following:

    • My exiting Quicken file that already contains several 401Ks.
    • A Gross Amount Paycheck with the 401K contribution (and employer contributions) that are going to a 401K that is not the new 401K
    • Four QFX files as follows:
    o The first QFX has transactions starting on November 15, 2019 and going to June 15, 2020. There are 607 transactions in this QFX starting with the first transaction on November 15, 2019.
    o The second QFX has transactions from November June 16, 2020 to June 30, 2020
    o The third QFX has transactions from July 1, 2020 to July 15, 2020
    o The fourth QFX has transactions from July 15, 2020 to July 31, 2020

    In order to get all transactions in my new 401K to be Bought and Sold I did the following:

    1. Add a new 401K account. As I added the account I did the following:
    a. I set the start date for this 401K account to be October 31, 2019 with a $0.00 balance. This date is well before the first investment transaction in my first QFX file.
    b. I entered in all the Ticker symbols of all the investments I have in my new 401K using the Ticker lookup and set them all to 0 holdings. I did this to ensure I didn’t accidentally mix up my securities.
    c. Quicken did not ask me about setting up paycheck and I assume that was because I already had one set up.

    2. Went to my checking account where my paycheck is deposited and scrolled back to November 15, 2019 paycheck and edited that transaction adjusting the date to November 14, 2019 (because the first investment transaction is on November 15, 2019 see above notes on missing investment transactions when the paycheck date is the same as the investment transactions dates) and changing the contribution destination to the new 401K and saved that transaction. At this point I have a new 401K account containing only the contribution transactions (one is my contribution and the other is my employer’s matching contribution) that is on November 14, 2019, one day before the first investment transaction in my First QFX file.

    3. Went to my new 401K account and imported the first QFX file. All 607 transactions showed up in the “ready to accept” window in the Register and then I “Accepted All” transactions. This resulted in all the transactions being imported into the register with a start date of November 15, 2019 going to June 15, 2020. Also, Quicken added an “Establish Cash Balance” transaction on the current day (in my case that was August 3, 2020) in order to make the ending cash balance equal $0.00 At this point all investment transactions are Bought and Sold and there are no BoughtX and SoldX transactions. At this point the Ending Cash Balance should equal $0.00

    4. Went back to my checking account and for each paycheck transaction from November 16, 2019 to June 15, 2020 (the most recent date for investment Buy transactions loaded into the 401K account) and changed the destination of all 401K contribution transactions to the new 401K. I made sure not to change the dates for the paychecks and not to change the contribution destination for any other paychecks on dates newer than the last investment transaction from the first QFX file.

    5. Went back to the new 401K. At this point you should see a cash balance of $0.00 on the last investment transaction day. This means that all your contributions add up to all the investment Bought transactions. If it is not, then go check your contributions against your paycheck. The Ending Cash Balance should now be equal to the Establish Cash Balance transaction that was automatically added by Quicken. You absolutely need to make sure this true at this point.

    6. Reconcile the new 401K account to $0.00 one the day after the very latest investment transaction as it appears in the 401K register. In my case that day was June 16, 2020. Make sure to ‘Check” any transactions that are not already “Cleared”. Under no circumstances should you reconcile the Establish Cash Balance transaction.

    7. Delete the ‘Established Cash Balance” transaction and your Ending Cash Balance will now read $0.00

    8. Go back to the checking account and starting at the next paycheck after the last date in step #4, (in this case it was my June 30, 2020 paycheck) and going to the must current paycheck, edit the paycheck transactions to have the contribution destination be the new 401K.

    9. Go back to the new 401K and import the rest of the QFX files. In my case that was 3 more files. Your ending cash balance should be $0.00, meaning that the total of all your investment Buys equal the total of all your contributions.

    10. Reconcile the new 401K account to $0.00 on the day of the latest invesetment transaction. In my case it was July 31, 2020.

    11. I then changed my paycheck reminder so that my 401K contributions are going to your new 401K.

    Hope this helps anyone that is getting frustrated with these BoughtX bugs in Quicken.
«13

Answers

  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    By any chance is your 401k set up as a "Single Mutual Fund" account?  Do TOOLS, Account List, and click on EDIT adjacent to the account name to see this.
    IF SO, the account can't hold cash, so everything MUST be a BOUGHTX.
    SOME financial institutions demand your Q account with them be set up as a SMF.
    BUT, if the FI doesn't require it ... flick that SMF toggle (in the Edit dialog) and turn that function OFF.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    No. It is not set up as a "Single Mutual Fund" account. The problem is that the download transactions from the financial institution has all purchase transactions as BoughtX. I have around 14 different mutual funds in that account.
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    HHMMMM, At this point, I think that it's time to take a look at what the 401k trustee is actually sending.
    Pick any fund in the account as a test, and then do HELP, Log Files,  OFX Log.  Save that OFX Log to your desktop and open it with WordPad or NotePad (NOT MS Word).
    Start at the bottom of the log and search UPward for that selected fund.
    Then look around for what ACTION is associated with that fund.
    I strongly suspect that the 401k itself is sending the BoughtX,  so other than editing each transactions before you accept it, there's not much that you can do OTHER than complaining loudly to the 401k trustee/fund company.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    I have already done this. But the transactions are in a QFX file.

    The problem with your steps is that it shows me the latest OFX log from the one step update. This account is linked to a financial institution that does not support a direct connection and it will not update through the one step update. I have to go to the institution, download the QFX file and then import that into Quicken. However when I looked in the QFX file I find that they list the transactions by a UNIQUEID that crosses to a security. When I look at the transaction 'codes' around one of the security purchases I see a lot of <BUYTYPE>BUY</BUYTYPE> </BUYMF> <BUYMF> and I really can't see how that translates to BoughtX.

    However that being said, how can I mass change these transactions over to just Bought by selecting that they should use that cash in the account for the buy?

    If not, is there a slick way to not have the cash deposited in that account accumulate?
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whether you download via Direct Connect, Web Connect, or Express Web Connect is immaterial.  ALL of the downloads are recorded in the OFXLog.txt file.
    IF you save your QFX file to your desktop, the most recent download will also be recorded there.
    Look for that same UNIQUEID in the OFX log and tell us what you find there.
    AND, there's no such thing as a "mass change" in Q's investment accounts.  I'm primarily trying to deflect the problem going forward.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • UKRUKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the transactions in question are indeed recorded as "BoughtX", then what account is listed as the Transfer-To/From account? Where's the money coming from?



  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    edited July 7
    UKR it is coming from the account, not the account's cash. So for example using your transaction, in the red circle you have drawn, the radio button next to "From" is checked and the Account would be E*TRADE IRA I can't seem to attach a picture of what the transaction looks like.
  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    NotACPA. You don't understand. Those transactions are not in the OFXLOG file. The only thing that I get from the OFXLOG is the most recent download information from running One Step Update. That is not how I get these transactions into Quicken. I have to go to the financial institution's site and there I select up a download of transactions and then save that in a QFX file on my disk. I then have to launch quicken and import that.
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    To attach a picture (preferably a JPG) use either the "Paper with a folded corner" icon, above OR the "landscape" icon to the side of it.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    NotACPA yes I can attach an image that way but I was looking to embed the image like how UKR did in his reply.
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    According to your profile, you currently have 22 points in this forum.
    I believe that 50 points are needed to be able to use that method.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    NotACPA. You don't understand. Those transactions are not in the OFXLOG file. The only thing that I get from the OFXLOG is the most recent download information from running One Step Update. That is not how I get these transactions into Quicken. I have to go to the financial institution's site and there I select up a download of transactions and then save that in a QFX file on my disk. I then have to launch quicken and import that.
    FWIW:  I download QFX files from one of my financial institutions that I then import into Quicken.  Those transactions appear in my Quicken OFX logs.   
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keep Looking.  They ARE in the OFX Log if they've been loaded into Q via ANY download method.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    Those transactions do not exist in the OFXLog file. I have searched by security name, uniqueID, ticker symbol, transaction date, download date, Unit Price, Purchased Units etc. for several securities in that account and there is no data in the OFXLog file that match the transactions in that account.
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Then, perhaps you'd better explain:
    1) WHO/What you're downloading these transactions from, AND
    2) Your step-by-step process to do those downloads.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK, skip the OFX log.  What is in the actual QFX file?  (Should be the same info.)  You can open that file with Windows Notepad.  You should find a series of lines or characters between some sort of 
    <BUY...> and </BUY...> lines.  What is in that information for any selected transaction that is appears as a BoughtX?
  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    > @q_lurker said:
    > OK, skip the OFX log.  What is in the actual QFX file?  (Should be the same info.)  You can open that file with Windows Notepad.  You should find a series of lines or characters between some sort of 
    > <BUY...> and </BUY...> lines.  What is in that information for any selected transaction that is appears as a BoughtX?

    Here is an example of a transaction from my QFX file that is classed as a BoughtX transaction in Quicken.

    <BUYMF>
    <INVBUY>
    <INVTRAN>
    <FITID>#########################NO</FITID>
    <DTTRADE>20191115000000</DTTRADE>
    <DTSETTLE>20191115000000</DTSETTLE>
    <MEMO>Pre-tax deferral/Conservative Model</MEMO>
    </INVTRAN>
    <SECID>
    <UNIQUEID>#########</UNIQUEID>
    <UNIQUEIDTYPE>CUSIP</UNIQUEIDTYPE>
    </SECID>
    <UNITS>0.311</UNITS>
    <UNITPRICE>23.9</UNITPRICE>
    <TOTAL>-7.43</TOTAL>
    <SUBACCTSEC>CASH</SUBACCTSEC>
    <SUBACCTFUND>CASH</SUBACCTFUND>
    <INV401KSOURCE>PRETAX</INV401KSOURCE>
    </INVBUY>
    <BUYTYPE>BUY</BUYTYPE>
    </BUYMF>

    I went so far as to download the OFX 2.2 specification to try and understand the codes and the schema.

    I would have thought that the lines:

    <SUBACCTSEC>CASH</SUBACCTSEC>
    <SUBACCTFUND>CASH</SUBACCTFUND>

    would have meant to take the money from the cash in the account since the tag SUBACCTFUND description reads “Where did the money for the transaction come from or go to? CASH, MARGIN, SHORT, OTHER” and the description for the tag SUBACCTSEC reads: “Sub-account type for the security: CASH, MARGIN, SHORT, OTHER”

    BUYMF tag is Buy Mutual Fund

    INVBUY is the tag for the Investment Purchase aggregate

    INV401KSOURCE tag description reads:
    For 401(k) accounts, source of money used for this security. Must be one of the following:
    PRETAX
    AFTERTAX
    MATCH
    PROFITSHARING
    ROLLOVER
    OTHERVEST
    OTHERNONVEST
    Default if not present is OTHERNONVEST. The following cash source types are subject to vesting: MATCH, PROFITSHARING, and OTHERVEST.

    That is about all I can provide for this type of transaction. From here I don’t know how Quicken decided that this is a BoughtX transaction vs a Bought transaction. Also I don’t know what a bought transaction would look like.

    Can you shed any light on this?
    Do you have an example of what a bought transaction in a 401k looks like?
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would have thought that the lines:
    <SUBACCTSEC>CASH</SUBACCTSEC>
    <SUBACCTFUND>CASH</SUBACCTFUND>
    would have meant to take the money from the cash in the account 

    I suspect that is correct -- BUT, it should not be an instruction to put the account name in the "From" block (ref UKR's post and your subsequent image attachment).  I don't know why the FI is putting in that info.  It is not necessary and the default, lacking those lines, is to also take money from the account.

    When your transaction has that From block filled out, it makes the transaction a BoughtX.  When the account name used there is the same as the account getting the transaction, Quicken treats it as a self referencing transaction and the cash comes from 'nowhere', that is the account cash balance is not changed by the amount of the transaction.  This is more common for Opening Balance transactions.

    So why does the FI include that info?  I have no idea.

    Why does Quicken interpret that info to mean "fill in the From block"?  I have no real idea, but perhaps to distinguish from similar transactions without such lines.

    Your options (as I see them):

    • Get the FI to quit putting in those lines  
    • Get Quicken to change it's processing of those lines
    • You edit the QFX file to eliminate those lines before importing the file
    • You edit the transactions after import to remove the "From" block account.
    Good Luck.
  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    > @q_lurker said:
    > (Quote)
    > I suspect that is correct -- BUT, it should not be an instruction to put the account name in the "From" block (ref UKR's post and your subsequent image attachment).  I don't know why the FI is putting in that info.  It is not necessary and the default, lacking those lines, is to also take money from the account.
    >
    > When your transaction has that From block filled out, it makes the transaction a BoughtX.  When the account name used there is the same as the account getting the transaction, Quicken treats it as a self referencing transaction and the cash comes from 'nowhere', that is the account cash balance is not changed by the amount of the transaction.  This is more common for Opening Balance transactions.
    >
    > So why does the FI include that info?  I have no idea.
    >
    > Why does Quicken interpret that info to mean "fill in the From block"?  I have no real idea, but perhaps to distinguish from similar transactions without such lines.
    >
    > Your options (as I see them):
    >
    > * Get the FI to quit putting in those lines  
    > * Get Quicken to change it's processing of those lines
    > * You edit the QFX file to eliminate those lines before importing the file
    > * You edit the transactions after import to remove the "From" block account.
    >
    > Good Luck.

    So a couple of questions:

    1. FI means Financial institution?

    2. What you are saying is if I eliminate those lines:
    "<SUBACCTSEC>CASH</SUBACCTSEC>
    <SUBACCTFUND>CASH</SUBACCTFUND>" That should make the transaction take the cash for the transaction from the cash balance of the account making it a Bought rather than a BoughtX? If so I can build a script to do that.

    Comments about your options:
    1. Get the FI to quit putting in those lines. I have contacted them (if you mean Financial Institution) about some other issues, like why do I have to manually download the QFX file and why can't I get this set up with One Step Update. I can ask them about not including those lines.

    2. Get Quicken to change it's processing of those lines. Umm ya right.

    3. You edit the QFX file to eliminate those lines before importing the file. That's what I'll try. I can build a new set of accounts and tinker with that until I get it right, If I can get it right.

    4. You edit the transactions after import to remove the "From" block account. That's what I am doing now but with so many transactions it takes a long time each month to do the updates.


    Finally, this would all not be necessary if I had a way to make the cash in that account 'disappear' without creating yet another transaction.

    The process is like this:
    1. I have set up a regular scheduled paycheck transaction in my checking account that contains split transactions. One of those splits is to put my 401k cash contribution and my employer's matching contribution into my 401k account.
    2. The cash accumulates in that 401k account and I wanted the investment transactions in the 401k account to use the cash in that account as the source.
    3. If I can't easily change the BoughtX to Bought, doing it manually is not easy, is there some way to make this cash just disappear?
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    To make the cash "disappear".  Enter a withdraw transaction for that amount, and set the category to [THE ACCOUNT NAME].  You could also just reconcile and accept a balance adjustment, but that will leave you with the transaction as having no category.  Of course you then edit it and change the category to [THE ACCOUNT NAME].  Quicken uses the syntax of transferring to the same account you are into mean "comes/goes from outside of Quicken"  (As in comes from nowhere, goes to nowhere).
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9
    Now I'm for the first time looking at the rest of this thread.
    Whatever the problem is, it isn't these lines:
    <SUBACCTSEC>CASH</SUBACCTSEC>
    <SUBACCTFUND>CASH</SUBACCTFUND>

    First off if people would look through their own OFX logs I'm sure they would find the same lines in their accounts that are working fine.  I certainly do in my Vanguard transactions.

    Second if you look at the specifications for this field you will see the possible values are: CASH, MARGIN, SHORT, OTHER, clearly this isn't any kind of indication of a "transfer" or trying to say what account things should go to.

    I will have to look further to see if there is a way that the OFX import can trigger a BoughtX, and if so, what really would be triggering that.
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    @Terry Locke In your screenshot of the buy it shows it going to the account "Diana's ABG 401K".  Is that the account that the buy is in?

    I suspect it is, and since it is the syntax that Quicken uses for money that comes and goes from outside of Quicken it would certainly cause your cash amount to be "unchanged".

    What I suspect is a problem in the Quicken account.  As in somehow it thinks that it is linked to a cash account, but and given it doesn't have one (and shouldn't have on) it is somehow linked right back to the same account.

    This can be proved either in a new data file or a new account.
    In a new account you would setup a new 401K account (manual entry) and import that QFX file.  I think you will find that it doesn't enter it as a BoughtX.

    You could do the same thing in the current data file by deactivating that account for downloading and then importing the QFX file into a new 401K account (manual entry) and see if the problem happens there.
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a similar problem with downloads from a Vanguard Brokerage account when dividends from a mutual fund are directed to a fund other than the default settlement account (Federal Money Market). I do not have this problem with legacy Vanguard mutual-fund-only accounts.

    The Div appears in the Downloaded transactions area as a DivX and the Buy of the other fund downloads as a BoughtX.

    When I accept the downloaded transactions, one of them (sorry don't remember which) is automatically converted to to non-X form so it affects the account's cash balance as it should and the other is entered in the X form with the transfer account being the same Vanguard brokerage account. I must then edit the transaction in the transaction list to remove the transfer account.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    For what it is worth, I have double checked the OFX specification and as far as I can tell there isn't any such thing as buyX.  That is a Quicken "invention".

    First off in an investment account there are investment actions/transactions and there are cash transactions, and they don't meet in the middle.

    As in when a cash transaction is needed they use the same syntax as you would find in an account like a checking, savings, or credit card. And then they have whole another set of syntax for dealing with investment transactions.  The only reference in the "investment syntax" you will see to a "real transfer" is a transfer securities, not cash.

    I put in "real transfer" in quotes because these entries:
    <SUBACCTSEC>CASH</SUBACCTSEC>
    <SUBACCTFUND>CASH</SUBACCTFUND>

    Aren't really transfers, they are more "informational".  As in informing a program like Quicken where the money comes from just in case it matters to how it deals with the transaction.
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭

    The Div appears in the Downloaded transactions area as a DivX and the Buy of the other fund downloads as a BoughtX.

    Would it be possible to get example OFX entries for these transactions?
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Chris_QPW -- Thanks for the correction on my suspicion about those lines.  I was wrong on them being a factor.  I should have reviewed my own OFX logs in better detail before commenting.  

    @Terry Locke You were interpreting my prior message as I intended.  Unfortunately, it seems to come down to that last option only.  These other great minds will undoubtedly continue to develop better insight into your circumstances.

  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    > @Chris_QPW said:
    > @Terry Locke In your screenshot of the buy it shows it going to the account "Diana's ABG 401K".  Is that the account that the buy is in?

    Yes it is the right account.

    >
    > I suspect it is, and since it is the syntax that Quicken uses for money that comes and goes from outside of Quicken it would certainly cause your cash amount to be "unchanged".

    I don't know what you mean by that. There is no money coming or going outside of Quicken for the Buy transactions. Cash comes into the 401k account from the split paycheck transaction in Quicken. Investment purchases in the 401k should come from that cash.

    >
    > What I suspect is a problem in the Quicken account.  As in somehow it thinks that it is linked to a cash account, but and given it doesn't have one (and shouldn't have on) it is somehow linked right back to the same account.

    This does not make sense. Are you saying that the Quicken 401k account is linked to a cash account? Are you saying that the FI account is linked to a cash account? In either case the answer is no.

    >
    > This can be proved either in a new data file or a new account.
    > In a new account you would setup a new 401K account (manual entry) and import that QFX file.  I think you will find that it doesn't enter it as a BoughtX.

    I created a new file. Setup a 401k account (I don't know what you mean by manual entry as there is no such option when setting up a 401k account). When creating the account I have to select the Financial Institution so I do that. I then import the QFX file and I get the same issue, all Buys are BoughtX.

    I tried this several times with edited QFX files and I always get the same result. I edited the QFX file to remove lines to see what it would do if I removed lines like "<INV401KSOURCE>PRETAX</INV401KSOURCE>" to see what Quicken would do but nothing changed, I still get BoughtX and the transaction does not come from the cash.

    The only thing that changes this from a BoughtX to a Bought (and thereby reducing the cash in the account) is to manually edit the transactions in the transaction window and select "From this account's cash balance" in the "Use cash for this transaction" section.
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    @Terry Locke Thank you for doing the test of trying this is a new account.  So this is definitely repeatable, and not just a bad Quicken account in one file.

    Now I will try to clarify some of things I said that have caused confusion.

    The most important part is that a buy and a transfer as one transaction seems to be a Quicken Windows "concept/invention".  I find nothing in the OFX standard that suggests that it supports such a transaction.  And in fact I know that when converting from Quicken Windows to Quicken Mac, there is a current problem because Quicken Mac doesn't support buy/sell and transfer in one transaction.

    So this means that somehow Quicken Windows is looking at what is sent and making a decision to turn the transaction into a BuyX.  At this point I'm not sure what it is seeing that is doing that, but I can tell you that is isn't just the buy that you show above from your QFX file.  It must be that there are other transactions or syntax in the QFX file that Quicken Windows is keying off and creating a BuyX.
    For instance this buy doesn't cause of BuyX.
                        <BUYMF>
                            <INVBUY>
                                <INVTRAN>
                                    <FITID>230590534
                                    <DTTRADE>20100923160000.000[-5:EST]
                                    <DTSETTLE>20100924160000.000[-5:EST]
                                    <MEMO>BUY
                                </INVTRAN>
                                <SECID>
                                    <UNIQUEID>461418691
                                    <UNIQUEIDTYPE>CUSIP
                                </SECID>
                                <UNITS>97.276
                                <UNITPRICE>10.2800279
                                <TOTAL>-1000.0
                                <SUBACCTSEC>CASH
                                <SUBACCTFUND>CASH
                            </INVBUY>
                            <BUYTYPE>BUY
                        </BUYMF>
    You will notice it is no different than yours.  BTW there isn't anything really "personal" in all these numbers.  FITID is a unique Id for the transaction and just has to be non repeatable for all other transactions, and UNIQEID is just the CUSIP for the security so that it can be identified.  In the QFX file the parts that need to be hidden are your username and account id (ACCID field).

    Now on to the way Quicken  handles categories and transfers.  Every transaction Quicken gets a "category" even if that category blank.  I put category in quotes because they use the same field to signify a transfer.  In some spots in Quicken you might find a field where they say something like Transfer Account:, but in most places you put the account name in the category field.  The way Quicken knows that it is a transfer and not a category is you put square brackets around the account name, like [Account].  So anytime you want a transfer you can use this syntax in the category field.

    Now say you are in "Account A", and in a transaction you put [Account A] in the category field.  That doesn't really make much sense does it, a transfer from "Account A" to "Account A".  Quicken uses this nonsense syntax to mean that the "transfer of money" comes from the "outside".  Examples of this would be the opening balance of an account or a balance adjustment.  In both cases the money neither came from/went to another account in Quicken or a category.

    In the case of your BuyX, you are in "Diana's ABG 401K" and the transfer is from "Diana's ABG 401K", see the "nonsense" syntax, which Quicken uses to mean that the money needed for the buy just "shows up" it doesn't take it from the cash balance or any other account in Quicken.

    And my very first comment above you will see the workaround is to enter a withdraw transaction with the category as [Diana's ABG 401K].  This will remove the cash from that account without affecting any other account or category in Quicken.

    On my speculation about a linked cash account.  401K accounts never have these, and I didn't expect you to see such a thing.  I was speculating that maybe internally Quicken had messed up that account in a way that it behaves like it had a cash account linked in, and the "linked account" was the same account.  The fact that this repeats in a different data file means I was completely wrong about this.

    On my reference to create a manual entry account.  That really wasn't required I just didn't want downloaded transactions to block you using the QFX file.  The way you setup a manual entry account is when you get to it asking what financial institution it is using, you instead select Advanced Setup, and from there, there is an option for setting up a manual entry account.

    Now to summarize.  Quicken is keying off something in that QFX file/what is sent in the Direct Connect response and deciding to create a BuyX instead of a Buy transaction.  The BUYMF section isn't enough to tell what is doing it.  Most likely the whole section from <OFX> to </OFX> would be needed (with the username and account number hidden).

    If we determine what is actually doing this it might make for a better case for a bug report to Quicken Inc.  At this point I do believe it is a bug in Quicken and not really a problem with what the financial institution is doing.  Note even without more information it can be submitted as problem (Help -> Submit a problem), but it is so complicated to explain I doubt they would even understand.

    Without a fix from Quicken Inc the only thing you can do is either edit each transaction to change it to a Buy or enter a Withdraw/Balance adjustment.  The one advantage using the Withdraw is that you can clear out the cash for as many of these BuyX transactions with just one transaction.
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • Terry LockeTerry Locke Member ✭✭
    > @Chris_QPW said:
    > For what it is worth, I have double checked the OFX specification and as far as I can tell there isn't any such thing as buyX.  That is a Quicken "invention".

    Correct. The ????X type of investment transactions (like BoughtX and SellX) are an invention of Quicken. The difference (that I can find) is where the money comes from for the transaction. The BoughtX and SellX do not impact the cash balance in the account.

    >
    > First off in an investment account there are investment actions/transactions and there are cash transactions, and they don't meet in the middle.

    Well, kind of correct. Cash in to an investment account increases the cash balance in the investment account. Cash in can come from a paycheck split transaction (like you are guided through when you set up a 401k account). A “Buy” transaction (definition by OFX) means that you are purchasing an investment to hold in the investment account. These transactions are a subset of the <INVTRANLIST> aggregate schema and an example of a Buy transaction within the “<INVTRANLIST>” of the QFX is (as I had posted before):

    <BUYMF>
    <INVBUY>
    <INVTRAN>
    <FITID>#########################NO</FITID>
    <DTTRADE>20191115000000</DTTRADE>
    <DTSETTLE>20191115000000</DTSETTLE>
    <MEMO>Pre-tax deferral/Conservative Model</MEMO>
    </INVTRAN>
    <SECID>
    <UNIQUEID>#########</UNIQUEID>
    <UNIQUEIDTYPE>CUSIP</UNIQUEIDTYPE>
    </SECID>
    <UNITS>0.311</UNITS>
    <UNITPRICE>23.9</UNITPRICE>
    <TOTAL>-7.43</TOTAL>
    <SUBACCTSEC>CASH</SUBACCTSEC>
    <SUBACCTFUND>CASH</SUBACCTFUND>
    <INV401KSOURCE>PRETAX</INV401KSOURCE>
    </INVBUY>
    <BUYTYPE>BUY</BUYTYPE>
    </BUYMF>

    The tag : “ <SUBACCTFUND>CASH</SUBACCTFUND>” is the informational data to tell the financial software to fund the transaction from cash. Since the description of the “<SUBACCTFUND>” tag is “Where did the money for the transaction come from or go to? CASH, MARGIN, SHORT, OTHER” you would assume that the funding comes from the cash and would reduce the cash balance in the 401k account.

    Check out Chapter 13 in the OFX2.2 manual for the full schema for investments and check out 13.13 for complete 401k examples.


    >
    > As in when a cash transaction is needed they use the same syntax as you would find in an account like a checking, savings, or credit card. And then they have whole another set of syntax for dealing with investment transactions.  The only reference in the "investment syntax" you will see to a "real transfer" is a transfer securities, not cash.
    >
    > I put in "real transfer" in quotes because these entries:
    > <SUBACCTSEC>CASH</SUBACCTSEC>
    > <SUBACCTFUND>CASH</SUBACCTFUND>
    >
    > Aren't really transfers, they are more "informational".  As in informing a program like Quicken where the money comes from just in case it matters to how it deals with the transaction.

    I never stated that those were transactions. They are part of an investment transaction aggregate schema and I also gave the tag definitions earlier in this thread that fully explained those tags.
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Chris_QPW -- Would this set of tests help?
    1)  (Terry's done) New File / New 401k account / Import QFX File
    2)  New File / New IRA account / Import QFX File
    2)  New File / New regular investment account / Import QFX file
    Do all three of these (401k, IRA, and regular) generate BoughtX transactions rather than Bought transactions?  I am trying to see if it is something in the OFX file or something in the account setup.  

    I am assuming you (Terry) are importing this QFX file either by double clicking on the file and having it get applied to the open Quicken file, or by selecting File > File Import > Web Connect (QFX) File.  If you have manually set up the account, the first import would ask which account the QFX file should associate with.

    Is there something about the Funds and their security setup within Quicken.  I see a Bond Index fund involved.  What security type do you have on that security?   
This discussion has been closed.