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How to setup for IRA/401k payroll deduction - also how to for direct contrib into IRA

ljmagyar

Is there such a thing? I have Windows Subscription version. I have tried several different methods to set up IRA's 401(k), etc... They always seem to not work properly.

For instance, I have a 401(k) at work. Each pay period a portion of my pay plus a match is deposited into that account. When setting up the account, it seems to be double what it actually should be.

I am exasperated with trying to get the investment accounts sorted.

We recently set up an IRA for our grand daughter. This is a straight deposit each month. We've only had it a year, but it is already showing TWICE what the actual balance should be!

I need some help!

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Ps56k2

[EDIT] - updated topic title to better reflect actual Q&A -
also suggested to admins they delete your other dup posting

Sherlock

A traditional 401(k) should be handled appropriately as a pre-tax deduction in the paycheck.

If you're importing transactions for the 401(k) and IRA accounts, the doubling may indicate you're not handling the imported transactions appropriately. For example, perhaps the contributions are not being used for the purchase of the securities in the register.

Jim_Harman

@ljmagyar, a more basic question: for the 401(k) contributions, are you using Quicken's Paycheck Wizard? That should make setting up your contributions and the employer match pretty straightforward.

Once you have that working, we can go over what about be happening inside the account.

ljmagyar

@Jim_Harman yes. I am using the paycheck wizard. moving funds from my paycheck as a pre-tax deduction seems to be working just fine. I set up my securities within the account also.

ljmagyar

@Ps56k2 thank you. at first I could only find a means to post on the 'welcome' board. N00b issue...

Jim_Harman

Ok, so you should be selling the cash from the contributions building up in the account.

You should be entering Bought transactions to buy the investments in the account. This will reduce the cash.

If you are adding the securities instead, that would explain why the account is twice as large as it should be.

ljmagyar

@Jim_Harman that makes a lot of sense. I do not know how to do that though, and there's nothing that I can find to help me do it correctly. Just going by the 'add new investment account'. That was my original question. Is there a guide on how to do that correctly? If not, can you offer a n00b a tip?

ljmagyar

@Jim_Harman so I am trying to start over after reading the help in Quicken. I started with my most recent paycheck.

The help says to create a new account. fine.

I set up a new account, it asks for the security name and how many units I own. According to my online account information, I have 723.1868 units of AMKIX @ 2.000261 unit value. (FYI - I only did one of them to reduce the variables)

Quicken however puts a value of 16.59 per unit. I cannot change that number as it is the 'price history'. This is where it all gets out of whack.

What is the difference between 'unit value' and 'price history'?

How do I make quicken look at the Unit Value?

Jim_Harman

You should not need to create a new account.

I suspect the security you own is a special fund run by your 401(k) provider and not the publicly traded AMKIX. Thus the reference to "units" and not shares, and the price difference. They often do this to offer the same portfolio as a publicly traded fund at a lower cost.

To avoid getting the wrong prices downloaded, you should un-check Download quotes next to that security in your Security list.

"Unit value" AKA Price is the price per share of a security on a particular date. "Price History" is the list of historical prices that Quicken maintains for each security. To view the price history, go to the Security Detail view by clicking on the name of the security in the security list then click on More and Edit price history. You can add new prices or edit or delete existing ones.

ljmagyar

so basically, there is no automated way to have quicken track investments in a 401(k) with direct payroll deduction and assets. I can put the payroll deductions into a 401(k) account, but can't track how those investments are doing at all without doing it manually. seems like a total waste of time and effort. Why doesn't quicken do this?

Ps56k2

ljmagyar said: so basically, there is no automated way to have quicken track investments in a 401(k)

I think that was answered above.... if your 401k has investments in a NON publicly traded asset - how would Quicken even know that it existed ?
... I have 723.1868 units of AMKIX @ 2.000261 unit value.

I tracked my 529 account the same way - manually - just adding to the Price List of a virtual security I created to track the investment funds in the 529.

To clarify.... what brokerage has your 401k ?
Is your AMKIX the same - Emerging Markets fund - as shown as the public fund ?
I don't see another version for Institutional Investors -

American Century Emerging Markets Fund I Class (AMKIX)

Nasdaq - Nasdaq Delayed Price. Currency in USD ..... $ 16.89+0.11 (+0.66%)

Tom Young

"so basically, there is no automated way to have quicken track investments in a 401(k) with direct payroll deduction and assets."

No, that's not the case. Quicken can do this perfectly correctly if all the securities are publicly traded securities and the financial institution creates downloads that Quicken can digest. If the financial institution creates "custom" securities, typically without ticker symbols and CUSIPs then there's no ability to download the security transactions or quotes.

Chris_QPW

Tom Young said:

"so basically, there is no automated way to have quicken track investments in a 401(k) with direct payroll deduction and assets."
No, that's not the case. Quicken can do this perfectly correctly if all the securities are publicly traded securities and the financial institution creates downloads that Quicken can digest. If the financial institution creates "custom" securities, typically without ticker symbols and CUSIPs then there's no ability to download the security transactions or quotes.

Actually I believe that even in the case where there isn't any symbol or CUSIPs it is possible to get a price, but it is up to the financial institution to provide it.

Quicken gets its prices from three sources.

Manual entry.
Brokerage, the prices are in the OFX data sent with the transactions.
Quote server. This is the one that needs the symbol/CUSIPs.

Provided that the connection to the wrong security/symbol is disconnected so that #3 doesn't kicks in, then you should be able to get the price from #2.

ljmagyar

well, this is what I am working with... actual ticker symbols and not actual values.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/gx/hqnvvwxcnp4d.jpg

Ps56k2

Well... all those funds listed have bogus "unit prices" - so .....

Doing some simple math, it would appear that the brokerage has sliced the share pricing of each holding in a specific manner to make it avail for less than $5 a share.

AMKIX = $2.0 / $16.89 actual price = 8 multiple
TRBCX = $4.49 / $174.80 actual = 38 multiple
VFIAX = $2.14 / $361.32 actual = 168 multiple

[EDIT] added your chart instream for easier access & review

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Tom Young said:

"so basically, there is no automated way to have quicken track investments in a 401(k) with direct payroll deduction and assets."
No, that's not the case. Quicken can do this perfectly correctly if all the securities are publicly traded securities and the financial institution creates downloads that Quicken can digest. If the financial institution creates "custom" securities, typically without ticker symbols and CUSIPs then there's no ability to download the security transactions or quotes.

Actually I believe that even in the case where there isn't any symbol or CUSIPs it is possible to get a price, but it is up to the financial institution to provide it.

Quicken gets its prices from three sources.
Manual entry.
Brokerage, the prices are in the OFX data sent with the transactions.
Quote server. This is the one that needs the symbol/CUSIPs.
Provided that the connection to the wrong security/symbol is disconnected so that #3 doesn't kicks in, then you should be able to get the price from #2.

The Quote server only uses the ticker symbol.

The CUSIP ID is provided by the financial institution and used to match the information provided by the financial institution to a Quicken security. Note: The CUSIP ID may not be the CUSIP number.

The hierarchy is:

Manual entry
Quote server
Brokerage

https://www.quicken.com/support/how-update-security-prices

ljmagyar

I give up... this is maddening, circular, and impossible! I don't even know what a CUSIP is. The Quicken help is useless. Many of the details I cannot even follow along with because the menus are too different. Nothing matches. At this point, I can't even determine how to ADD a security to an existing account.

The investing tracker is garbage for 401(k) with payroll deduction.

Ps56k2

ljmagyar said:

I give up... this is maddening, circular, and impossible!

yup - all because your 401k brokerage has manipulated the numbers,
so it is easier for you to buy into some kind of trust with "units" vs "shares" -

but still retains the actual public mutual fund trading symbol for reference.

q_lurker

ljmagyar said:

I give up...

The investing tracker is garbage for 401(k) with payroll deduction.

The real issue is that the 401k administrator has told you that you are invested in AMKIX (as one example). But they are not telling you how many shares of AMKIX they hold for you. They are telling you that you have 723.1868 UNITS of their investment in AMKIX. Units are not shares.

As such, you cannot assign the AMKIX ticker to their investment for you in that fund. You need to track that fund solely through their downloads and/or your manual entries.

The investment tracker is fine for 401(k)s and payroll deductions. But you need to be accurate in the securities you are holding.

In your security list in Quicken, you need to have those securities with no ticker and no check for the "Download Quotes". I would alter the name to also reflect that it is the 401k's version of the fund, not the retail version of the fund.