quicken 2007 for Mac, High Sierra and Mojave?

hbanks

About to upgrade to High Sierra from Sierra (yes, I am a real laggard) and wondering whether putting the application, data file and back-ups on VMWare Fusion will avoid problems with automatic back-ups? And if so, whether it will not only work with High Sierra, but also eventually with Mojave?

I've been reading all this stuff about High Sierra's new file format not accommodating backups, and about how some folks have created a special portion to store these files, but this seems beyond my technical ken. (I've been dragging my little computer feet because of this issue].

Would putting all this stuff on VMWare fusion do the trick? Thanks in advance for answering an aging question.

jacobs

@hbanks  Depending on the age of your Time Capsule, you might consider getting an inexpensive hard drive to use for  Time Machine backups going forward. (You could continue using the Time Capsule for its networking abilities.) You don't want to find out your backup is corrupted when you really need it to restore your valuable data. (I've had a few near-disasters, which is why I now have Time Machine plus iDrive plus a full disk backup to a portable drive which I update every few months. You can never have too many backups!)

As for the font of the checks, yes, I hear you -- but it it really that big a deal? A check is only a way to pay someone, and it's not even something you keep. If that's what's holding you back from moving off Quicken 2007, I'd say to just let it go and move on. I'm very big on aesthetics, but the font on my checks is not something I'd focus much attention on. While Quicken 2007 is beloved by many for lots of good reasons, as you note, it's also prone to occasional data corruption issues. That, along with the slow-but-steady improvements in the next-generation Quicken Mac, is what got me to finally say farewell to Quicken 2007. While I miss a few features in Quicken 2007 which don't exist in the new Quicken, I don't regret moving on in the slightest.

Best wishes!

jacobs

To the best of my knowledge, upgrading a Mac from High Sierra to Mojave will convert the internal boot hard drive from HFS+ to APFS automatically, and there's no way around it. If you have an HFS+ volume separate from the one with the operating system, I don't think it will be touched; external drives also won't be touched.

You can do the upgrade to Mojave without any special concern about the Quicken application or data files. They will work on Mojave, except for the automatic backups not working. So if you haven't already created a separate HFS+ partition, I would do the update to Mojave first, make sure Quicken (and everything else on your Mac) are in good working order after it's done. Then, if you want to enable Quicken's automatic backups, you can use Disk Utility to create a small HFS+ partition on your hard drive, and move your Quicken data file and Backup folder to the new partition. Launch Quicken by double-clicking on the data file in its new home (because clicking on the Quicken application probably won't know where to find your data file after it's been moved). Then go to Quicken Preferences to select the location of your backup folder on the new volume, so it will know where to save backups going forward. Quit Quicken to see if it creates a backup there; relaunch it from the Dock to make sure it knows where the file is and opens it.

smayer97

If you create a VM for QM2007, you only need to create an HFS+ partition within the VM IF you plan to use the auto-backup feature built into QM2007 or any other File related features (Save a Copy, etc). And you will have to save that data file and any of its autobackups on that HFS+ partition for it to work. Otherwise, the data file can be stored and used on an APFS formatted drive/partition.

There is a great quality VM for FREE for users of Big Sur offered by VMWare (Fusion). For more info, refer to this thread:

Running Quicken for Mac 2007 in a Virtual Machine (VM)

jacobs

Quicken 2007 will work on High Sierra and Mojave.

The issue with automated backups is whether the backup volume is formatted as HFS+ (backups will work) or APFS (backups will not). On Mojave, your Mac's startup drive will be reformatted to APFS whether you want it or not.

I used Quicken 2007 on Mojave until I finally switched to modern Quicken Mac, and I just turned off automatic backups, and didn't miss a beat. I have Time Machine creating constant backups of my Mac, plus iDrive, and I also every couple weeks made a manual copy of my data file in the Finder.

If you do want Quicken's internal backups to work, the easiest thing is to create a small partition of your drive using Disk Utility, and format it as HFS+. Setting up VMWare Fusion, installing the macOS you want, moving the Quicken application, data file and backups inside Fusion, and needing to have Fusion running every time you want to use Quicken seems like more work to me, but it should work so long as you have an HFS+ drive to save your backups to. 

hbanks

Thanks. Guess I should create an internal partition. Gulp. May seem easy to you, but feeling a little dense.

Dumb question: will I have to select it as the startup drive to navigate to my Quicken data file? Or how do I get to it?

jacobs

Again, I was content without creating an APFS partition on my drive just for Quicken do be able to do backups. Do you have a backup system in place for your Mac? If not, I'd recommend that as your first priority, especially since you're using old older Mac. A $100-or-less external hard drive for Time Machine -- which can be set up in about 60 seconds -- should be a priority if you don't already have it. (And/or an online backup service like iDrive; you can often find them promoting a deal for just a few dollars for the first year.) Once you have a backup system in place you could consider not being concerned about losing Quicken 2007's automatic backups, because your systemwide backup will be backing up your Quicken data every day. (And, as I mentioned, once a week or every couple weeks, make a Finder copy of your Quicken data file for an extra layer of insurance.)

But if you really want to maintain Quicken 2007's automatic backups, just Google "Disk Utility partition drive" and you'll find lots of help and examples. It's really just a few clicks in Disk Utility to say how much space you want the new volume to be, give it a name, select HFS+ format, and let macOS do the rest. Once the new drive mounts on your desktop*, copy your Quicken data file there, and your Quicken backup folder there. In Quicken, point the backup location to its new home, and that should take care of things. Check after using Quicken to make sure you see it making new backups in your new folder location.  

No, the new volume does not need to be a startup volume. It doesn't need to have the operating system installed on it. It could literally contain only your live Quicken data file, a Quicken Backup folder, and nothing else. The new volume will be accessible just like any other folder on your desktop.  (*In Finder Preferences > General, make sure you have Hard disks checked, so that all hard disks -- like your newly-created disk volume -- will show up on your Desktop.)

hbanks

Brilliant and easily understood. Thanks so much.

I do have a Time Capsule and back up once a week, but having had problems with the data file getting corrupted, am now fanatical about backing up every time I quit. Now, if we could only get the new Quicken Deluxe to modify the check printing font… Maybe when pigs fly?

Am running both apps, Mac 2007 for Mac and Quicken Deluxe 5.18.2, but am reluctant to give up the trusty 2007 [with data corruption problems from time to time] because I don't like Arial. Consider me petty?

But thanks again. Printed out your oh so clear response.

jacobs

@hbanks  Depending on the age of your Time Capsule, you might consider getting an inexpensive hard drive to use for  Time Machine backups going forward. (You could continue using the Time Capsule for its networking abilities.) You don't want to find out your backup is corrupted when you really need it to restore your valuable data. (I've had a few near-disasters, which is why I now have Time Machine plus iDrive plus a full disk backup to a portable drive which I update every few months. You can never have too many backups!)

As for the font of the checks, yes, I hear you -- but it it really that big a deal? A check is only a way to pay someone, and it's not even something you keep. If that's what's holding you back from moving off Quicken 2007, I'd say to just let it go and move on. I'm very big on aesthetics, but the font on my checks is not something I'd focus much attention on. While Quicken 2007 is beloved by many for lots of good reasons, as you note, it's also prone to occasional data corruption issues. That, along with the slow-but-steady improvements in the next-generation Quicken Mac, is what got me to finally say farewell to Quicken 2007. While I miss a few features in Quicken 2007 which don't exist in the new Quicken, I don't regret moving on in the slightest.

Best wishes!

smayer97

So in summary:

1. QM2007 (v16.1.x+) will run High Sierra and Mojave with nothing else.
2. To us QM2007 built-in auto backup, BOTH the data file and the backup files need to be stored on an HFS+ (Mac OS Extended) format, so you will need to create a partition with that format (easy to do with macOS Disk Utility).
3. Though you do not need VMWare Fusion to use QM2007 on High Sierra or Mojave, if you decide to late upgrade macOS to Catalina or Big Sur and have not upgraded to the subscription version of QMac, QM2007 will NOT run on these versions of macOS UNLESS you use a VM software to run QM2007 (and again, you will need to create an HFS+ volume if you want to continue to use QM2007 automatic backup), so you may want to become familiar with this if that is in your plans. Note that VMWare Fusion 12 is now free for personal use IF you have Catalina or higher. For some guidance on this, see Running Quicken for Mac 2007 in a Virtual Machine (VM)

hbanks

> @jacobs said:
> Again, I was content without creating an APFS partition on my drive just for Quicken do be able to do backups. Do you have a backup system in place for your Mac? If not, I'd recommend that as your first priority, especially since you're using old older Mac. A $100-or-less external hard drive for Time Machine -- which can be set up in about 60 seconds -- should be a priority if you don't already have it. (And/or an online backup service like iDrive; you can often find them promoting a deal for just a few dollars for the first year.) Once you have a backup system in place you could consider not being concerned about losing Quicken 2007's automatic backups, because your systemwide backup will be backing up your Quicken data every day. (And, as I mentioned, once a week or every couple weeks, make a Finder copy of your Quicken data file for an extra layer of insurance.)
>
> But if you really want to maintain Quicken 2007's automatic backups, just Google "Disk Utility partition drive" and you'll find lots of help and examples. It's really just a few clicks in Disk Utility to say how much space you want the new volume to be, give it a name, select HFS+ format, and let macOS do the rest. Once the new drive mounts on your desktop*, copy your Quicken data file there, and your Quicken backup folder there. In Quicken, point the backup location to its new home, and that should take care of things. Check after using Quicken to make sure you see it making new backups in your new folder location.  
>
> No, the new volume does not need to be a startup volume. It doesn't need to have the operating system installed on it. It could literally contain only your live Quicken data file, a Quicken Backup folder, and nothing else. The new volume will be accessible just like any other folder on your desktop.  (*In Finder Preferences > General, make sure you have Hard disks checked, so that all hard disks -- like your newly-created disk volume -- will show up on your Desktop.)

Hi again,

About to make the move to High Sierra this weekend. Before doing that, I will be sure to back-up my computer, but a couple of questions:
1. Should I put the data file and back-up folder to make it easier to install them in the future HFS+ partition?
2. Any chance the High Sierra HFS+ partition will work with Mojave? [Probably not, but…]

Thanks again,

Hannah

jacobs

To the best of my knowledge, upgrading a Mac from High Sierra to Mojave will convert the internal boot hard drive from HFS+ to APFS automatically, and there's no way around it. If you have an HFS+ volume separate from the one with the operating system, I don't think it will be touched; external drives also won't be touched.

You can do the upgrade to Mojave without any special concern about the Quicken application or data files. They will work on Mojave, except for the automatic backups not working. So if you haven't already created a separate HFS+ partition, I would do the update to Mojave first, make sure Quicken (and everything else on your Mac) are in good working order after it's done. Then, if you want to enable Quicken's automatic backups, you can use Disk Utility to create a small HFS+ partition on your hard drive, and move your Quicken data file and Backup folder to the new partition. Launch Quicken by double-clicking on the data file in its new home (because clicking on the Quicken application probably won't know where to find your data file after it's been moved). Then go to Quicken Preferences to select the location of your backup folder on the new volume, so it will know where to save backups going forward. Quit Quicken to see if it creates a backup there; relaunch it from the Dock to make sure it knows where the file is and opens it.

smayer97

1. If I understand correctly, you only need to place your data file and backups on an HFS+ volume IF you plan to use QM2007 auto-backup. But you can do this before OR after you upgrade

2. HFS+ is a supported volume format by all current versions of macOS.

hbanks

Thanks @jacobs and @smayer97.

Only took me a month, and sweating while the partition was created (took way longer than expected, and required a restart), but things seem to be working. Really appreciate your thoughtful and clear responses. Now, if only you could have been sitting beside me to talk me down…

Signing off, your Luddite friend,

Hannah

> @jacobs said:
> Quicken 2007 will work on High Sierra and Mojave.
>
> The issue with automated backups is whether the backup volume is formatted as HFS+ (backups will work) or APFS (backups will not). On Mojave, your Mac's startup drive will be reformatted to APFS whether you want it or not.
>
> I used Quicken 2007 on Mojave until I finally switched to modern Quicken Mac, and I just turned off automatic backups, and didn't miss a beat. I have Time Machine creating constant backups of my Mac, plus iDrive, and I also every couple weeks made a manual copy of my data file in the Finder.
>
> If you do want Quicken's internal backups to work, the easiest thing is to create a small partition of your drive using Disk Utility, and format it as HFS+. Setting up VMWare Fusion, installing the macOS you want, moving the Quicken application, data file and backups inside Fusion, and needing to have Fusion running every time you want to use Quicken seems like more work to me, but it should work so long as you have an HFS+ drive to save your backups to. 

hbanks

Luddite's new updated question: am about to bring my hard drive to a new computer running Catalina. Will the HFS+ partition transfer as well, or do I need to create a new one?

In other words, I see that you can create an HFS+ partition on Catalina, but will my existing one transfer?

Thanks in advance,

Hannah

smayer97

Simple answer is yes. All versions of macOS still support HFS+... creating, reading, writing.

hbanks

Thanks. Just to clarify: hoping the HFS+ partition that currently exists on my old computer will migrate to the new one. May not have explained my question clearly.

Or will I have to create a new partition on the new computer and copy/paste/drag the data into the newly created partition on the new computer? Less desirable option, btw.

Thanks again,

Hannah

Jon

If you want a HFS+ partition on your new Mac, you're going to have to create it yourself - I don't think it's going to create one for you automatically.

hbanks

Maybe I'm not explaining clearly. I have an old computer with an HFS+ partition. When I migrate everything to a new computer, will that partition migrate too?

Hannah

smayer97

If you are talking about migrating the data on the original drive only and not actually moving and installing the physical drive to the new computer (not internally nor externally), partitions do not migrate, only data. So, if you want that data to reside on an HFS+ drive or partition, you will have to create one on the new computer. You can easily do this using Apple Disk Utility. You can even have Apple do it for you and migrate your data.

BUT then if you are migrating only data, why do you need an HFS+ partition? As far as QM2007 is concerned, you will NOT be able to run it as is on any Mac running macOS Catalina or newer, especially if it is a M1-based Mac (you can do it using a virtual machine (and only on an Intel-based Mac at the moment) but that is technical and may not be what you want).

Please clarify what you are trying to achieve.

jacobs

@hbanks Yes, to reiterate part of the post above: Quicken 2007 will NOT run on Catalina. Catalina (and Big Sur, which followed, and Monterey, which is coming soon) require applications to be 64-bit code, and Quicken 2007 is 32-bit code. There's no way to wiggle around that.

Your only options for Catalina and beyond are (a) to upgrade to the current Quicken Mac, or (b) to get involved with installing Virtual Machine software and then installing an older macOS like Mojave in the Virtual Machine so you can run Quicken 2007.

If you migrate from the old Mac to the newer one, your Quicken 2007 data file(s) will be copied over, but will not b able to be used on the new Mac. But Quicken Mac will b able to import the data from a Quicken 2007 data file. 

If you're updating to Quicken Mac, and you still have access to the old Mac, I'd suggest you run the maintenance process to rebuild the file indexes in your Quicken 2007 data file before you move the data to the new Mac. You do this by launching Quicken 2007, pressing Command-Option-B, and letting it do it's thing. Doing this before moving to the new Mac and new Quicken might prevent problems some people encounter with the data conversion into Quicken Mac. 

hbanks

Thanks for the clarity, @jacobs and @smayer97. Yes, should have started out with the query: can you run Quicken 2007 on Catalina?

But good idea about the virtual machine. And, yes, I am still a Luddite, but always learning, thanks to you.

Hannah

hbanks

And one other thing: if I create a virtual Mojave machine, do I also have to create an HSF+ partition on it as well?

Why I'm continuing to run Q2007 in tandem with the new version since installing it: have scads of monthly contributions. Doing double entry makes it less likely that I miss one. And a silly graphic one: much prefer to print checks thru the old version: more user friendly.

Those two reasons are why I've been resisting advancing from High Sierra, but now my old computer is not acting right, and is probably failing. Sigh. I've been a Mac user since 1989, but am usually at least one system behind. Maybe after this upgrade to Catalina with a virtual machine, I'll take the plunge to upgrade to a later system, if I can run a virtual machine as well.

So the final question, I hope, can Big Sur run a virtual machine as well.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful help,

Hannah

smayer97

If you create a VM for QM2007, you only need to create an HFS+ partition within the VM IF you plan to use the auto-backup feature built into QM2007 or any other File related features (Save a Copy, etc). And you will have to save that data file and any of its autobackups on that HFS+ partition for it to work. Otherwise, the data file can be stored and used on an APFS formatted drive/partition.

There is a great quality VM for FREE for users of Big Sur offered by VMWare (Fusion). For more info, refer to this thread:

Running Quicken for Mac 2007 in a Virtual Machine (VM)

jacobs

Yes, Big Sur can run VM software. There is the free one mentioned by smayer97, VMWare Fusion, and a paid product, Parallels. Note that Fusion is still in beta testing for a version which can run on new (M1) Macs, and cannot yet run the about-to-be released Monterey operating system. Parallels has greater market share because it makes some of the work of setting up a VM a bit smoother, but you can Google and read reviews of both.

hbanks

Thanks! Hopefully final question: can the Q2007 app still reside in the Catalina/whatever applications folder, or does it need to also move to the new HFS+ partition in the VM?

Hannah

smayer97

QM2007 can reside on a non-HFS+ partition BUT it needs Mojave or older to even run because it is a 32-bit application and Catalina or newer can only run 64-bit applications.

Note, of course, that both the Catalina host environment and Mojave VM environment will be able to see all available partitions.

So, QM2007 can reside anywhere but can only be launched from within a macOS environment that has Mojave or older running. In other words, given your set-up, it can only run within a VM.

hbanks

Hi, @jacobs and @smayer97,

Seems like creating a virtual machine is way more complicated than installing an HFS+ partition. Sigh.

But because I want to run my current Quicken file in tandem with something else so I can be sure not to miss a monthly contribution, I am exploring other 64-bit options.

[removed - no soliciting]

So glad to have you here, by the way.

Hannah

jacobs

@hbanks  Yes, setting up virtual machine software and then installing an older Mac operating system on it requires a bit of work, and is not easy for everyone. I'm not sure which VM software you tried or looked into, but I believe that Parallels (paid) would be easier to set up than VMware Fusion (free).

I don't know what other possible software you mentioned, because it was removed by a moderator (this site is Quicken's playpen, and they've decided not to allow any discussion of features of competing software here). But before you go through the time and effort to move your data to some other software, why not just do it with the current Quicken Mac? It's certainly changed from Quicken 2007, but it's certainly going to feel more familiar than moving to some other software. 

I'm not sure I understand why you want to run Quicken 2007 and modern Quicken Mac in tandem, but it's not a bad idea until you are comfortable that all your accounts are accurate in Quicken Mac. Can you simply hold onto your old Mac for a short while longer, to run Quicken 2007, while you import your data into Quicken Mac on the new Mac? It may not be convenient to have to have two Macs set up at the same time, but hopefully you'd only need to do everything in duplicate for a few weeks or so until you can feel confident enough to say goodbye to Quicken 2007. To me, that seems like it would probably be far easier than moving to other software, or to setting up a virtual machine to run Quicken 2007 on your new Mac.

smayer97

Just to be clear, VMWare Fusion is a TOP notch product made by a top-notch VM developer (10-12X bigger than Parallels). They simply made the latest version free. It does not mean that future versions will be free too. So in this case, the pricing is not a reflection of the quality or ease of use of the product. That is very much a personal thing.

jacobs

@smayer97 I don’t know why you saw a need  to defend VMWare; I didn’t say it was a bad product. I only said that for someone with limited Mac technical skills, they might find Parallels easier to set up. Since VMWare is free, someone might logically start there, but if they encounter difficulties, the alternative of Parallels might provide an easier path to get up and running successfully.

smayer97

Not sure why so sensitive. The way you phrased it, pointing out that one is paid and one is free could lead one to believe that one is a lesser quality product and ease of one product over another is a subjective one also, so I felt it better to make that clear on both issues.

Don't take it so personally and get your knickers in a knot. Are you the type that does not like anything you say to be expounded, clarified, or even correct? No need to answer.

hbanks

@jacobs and @smayer97: Just to let you know: I've finally upgraded to Catalina and given up double entry on Q2007 and the new version (altho I do have the Q2007 data stashed on another computer). Solution for keeping track of monthly contributions: Excel spreadsheet! Took a while to set up, but now that it's done, I just check it every day.

Life is way easier now. Only one entry per day, and have to admit that I like the duplicate transaction feature on the newer version. Have enjoyed having your help. May get in touch again, with more current questions. Thanks for everything!

jacobs

@hbanks Thanks for coming back and posting that you successfully made the transition to modern Quicken Mac. It's always nice to get closure, especially when the end of the story is happy!  

As for contributions, although I don't have tons of them, I always wanted to track more information about my contributions than I could enter in Quicken's memo field -- and it served as a good double check against Quicken prior to doing taxes. (Well, at least when I itemized deductions and contributions were deductible!) I used a simple FileMaker Pro database for many years. Now that I don't have FileMaker through work, it's too expensive for an annual license just for this, so I've moved my database over to a spreadsheet as well. It's not as great for long notes, but it gets the job done. (And because modern Quicken Mac has unlimited characters in the Notes field, I may decide that I can just use Quicken and drip the secondary spreadsheet one of these days.)