Certain Transactions Keep Resetting To Original Statement Payee (Q Mac)

jsurpless

No matter what I do, Quicken keeps resetting the Payee field on certain transactions to the original Statement Payee value on 'Update Account Online'

It seems to be mostly some AppleCash transactions (although, not all).

I've tried going into the Web version, changing it there and in Quicken app. Both are my desired 'AppleCash' and then I click Update Account which reverts it...

What's going on here? Any ideas? Thanks!

Quicken Jasmine

Hi @jsurpless,

Thank you for contacting the community regarding this issue, I am sorry that you are experiencing this!

In order to proceed, I would like to gather some more information. What financial institution is this error occurring with? Also, what version of Quicken are you running?

I look forward to hearing your response so we may work towards a resolution. 
Quicken Jasmine

jsurpless

Hi Jasmine

I am running Version 6.5.3 (Build 605.42687.100) and it seems to happen with Bank of America

Quicken Jasmine

Hi @jsurpless,

Thank you for responding. Could you please check your QuickFill Rules to see if there would be anything saved there that could trigger this to happen?

I look forward to hearing your response. 
Quicken Jasmine

jsurpless

Just looked, I don't believe so... here are what they get renamed to... I even merged them and they come back.

Quicken Jasmine

Hi @jsurpless,

Thank you for responding!

Could you please let me know how long this has been occurring? Depending on the length of time that has passed, it may be advised to restore from a previous backup that was created before this error started occurring. 

I look forward to hearing your response. 
Quicken Jasmine

jsurpless

Not sure when it started, though I can say that the affected transactions go back months.

I don't think it's been going since that far in the past, though...

Quicken Jasmine

Hi @jsurpless,

Thank you for the response. Since we are unsure of how long this error has been occurring, before attempting to restore from a backup, could you please create a test file and add the Bank of America account with the apple cash transactions and see if this same error occurs? 

You can create a test file by going to File>New>Start from Scratch.

Please let me know how this goes and if the error still occurs. 
Quicken Jasmine

jsurpless

It doesn't appear to happen with a new account... interestingly, it downloaded with Payee of Apple, as opposed to matching the Statement Payee of APPLECASHetc

Quicken Jared

jsurpless said:

It doesn't appear to happen with a new account... interestingly, it downloaded with Payee of Apple, as opposed to matching the Statement Payee of APPLECASHetc

Hello @jsurpless,

Thank you for continuing to follow up with us regarding this issue. We appreciate your patience.

Where is your current active data file located? You can always check this by going to File > Show "(Name of data file will be shown here)" in Finder in the upper menu at the top of the screen while Quicken is open. I recommend ensuring that the data file is stored somewhere on your local MacHD, as it can cause erratic program behavior when the data file is stored in an external drive or cloud based storage.

I look forward to corresponding further about this matter, if necessary. 

Thank you,

Quicken Jared 

jsurpless

Good morning Jared

Here is the path where my file is (I believe this is the default?)

\Users\jsurpless\Library\Application Support\Quicken\Documents\

Quicken Jared

jsurpless said:

Good morning Jared

Here is the path where my file is (I believe this is the default?)

\Users\jsurpless\Library\Application Support\Quicken\Documents\

@jsurpless

Thank you for getting back to me with that additional information, and for continuing to follow up with us about this issue.

When you navigate to Window > Payees and Rules, go to the QuickFill tab. Click on the payee AppleCash - or whichever you know to be affected by this issue. Do you see a checkmark in the box next to "Lock this rule to prevent changes to it when editing this transaction"? I recommend unchecking this and then attempting to change the transaction payee name back to the desired input.

I hope that provides a resolution, and I look forward to any update you may be able to provide.

Thank you,

Quicken Jared 

jsurpless

Hi Jared

There is no QuickFill rule for anything with Apple in it

Quicken Jasmine

Hi @jsurpless, 

Thank you for your responses, they are helpful in working towards a resolution. 

I had you create a test file to see if the same error occurred which you tried and responded that this error did not occur in a test file. This leads me to believe that there is a bug in your current file that you are using which is causing this error to occur. 

I would recommend restoring from a backup that was created before this error started to occur. I have provided a link below on how to restore from a backup on a Mac:

https://www.quicken.com/support/mac/how-backup-or-restore-your-quicken-data

Please let me know if the error persists, I look forward to hearing your response and I hope that this helps. 
Quicken Jasmine

jsurpless

I restored to a backup from 2/1/22, the register didn't have this issue. I then restored to one from 2/8/22 where the issue did exist.

So I rolled back to the 2/1/22 backup and proceeded to download transaction from BoA. The issue then occurred with the Payee names being changed to APPLECASHetcetc

Quicken Jasmine

Hi @jsurpless,

Thank you for the response and for trying out these different routes with me as well as for providing adequate information. 

Since this error did not occur in the test file, next, what I suggest you try is to export and import the data from your current data file into a new data file to see if the same issue occurs in the new file after the data successfully imports. Doing this copies your data into a new file without affecting your original file. Should this not work, then you can always switch back to the original file after.

If you would like to try this, please, follow the steps below.

1. Navigate to File
2. Export
3. Quicken Transfer File (QXF)...
4. Save the exported file somewhere you can easily locate it (i.e.: DeskTop)
5. Navigate back to File
6. New...
7. Start from Scratch
8. Follow the prompts until it takes you to the new and empty data file
   
9. Close the Add Checking Account pop-up
10. Navigate back to File
11. Import
12. Quicken Windows File (QDF, QXF)... (even if you are on Mac)
13. Select the .QXF file you previously exported
    
14. Click Ok once you receive the message saying that the import was successful

Once that is done, you should see that all your banking accounts (Checking, savings, money markets, credit cards, etc) were added to this new data file.

Please note that you will need to re-establish online connections in the new file for any accounts you have set up for automatic downloads. 

There are also a few features that will not be imported to the new file as these features do not export nor import. Please, refer to this support article under the section titled "More about QXF files" for more detailed information regarding what .QXF files do and/or do not export/import.

If this resolves the issue for you, then you can rename and move forward using this new file. Below are steps to rename the new file from the name Quicken will auto-assign to it.

1. Navigate to File
2. Rename

If you need to switch back to your original file, please follow the steps below.

1. Navigate to File
2. Open Recent
3. Select the original data file name
4. Click Open

Please let me know how it goes!
Quicken Jasmine

jsurpless

Hi Jasmine

I don't think that going with a QFX export will be an option, as I have numerous investment accounts and reports that I can't lose

jacobs

I don't think that going with a QFX export will be an option, as I have numerous investment accounts and reports that I can't lose

@jsurpless Just to clarify one thing: your investment accounts will export and import successfully; you shouldn't lose them in this process. But you're correct that you would lose all your reports, preference and account register settings, account logins, QuickFill rules, as well as budgets and attachments, if you have any. For this reason, I always say the QXF export/import should be a last resort in solving a problem with an existing data file. 

So… alternatives? I am suspicious of problems with syncing with Quicken Cloud, which seems to cause problems for many people. You referenced earlier in the thread that you were using the web version. Here's an approach to try…

Turn off Sync in Preferences > Mobile, Web & Alerts.
Create a new file from scratch, and set to NOT use mobile/web. Don't connect any accounts; just create a manual account with no transactions.
Go to Preferences > Mobile, Web & Alerts and verify that Sync is Off.
Go to Preferences > Connected Services and click the See All Cloud Accounts button.
Your currently open desktop file will the the one in bold; delete all the others.
Restore your 2/1 backup again.
As soon as the file opens, go to Preferences > Mobile, Web & Alerts and turn Sync off.
You will get a message that a Quicken Cloud file can't be found; allow it to create a new one. If not, go to Preferences > Connected Services and allow it to create a new one.

At this point your data is still correct, right? Verify that there are no QuickFill rules relating to AppleCash or Apple.  ave a backup of the file now. Then try to update your accounts to download transactions since 2/1. Your transactions transactions should download, and since there is none of your data in Quicken Cloud now, your data can't be overwritten by any Cloud data. Do the transactions come in correctly this time?

jsurpless

@jacobs thanks for the suggestion, I believe that I tried what you recommended and unfortunately, the issue persists. I should also mention that I'm not sure it's coming from the Cloud (although, not sure where else since it doesn't happen with a new file). I say this because I have previously changed the payee values in both the web version *and* the desktop version.

jacobs

Well, let's look at that could be changing the transactions.

If a transaction is downloaded twice from the financial institution, Quicken should be discarding it because it has the same FITID number as the one previously downloaded. If the financial institution erred and was changing the FITID numbers, you'd get a duplicate transaction, not a changed one.

You've ruled out local renaming rules as the culprit.

We haven't ruled out Quicken's server-based renaming rules. In Preferences >Connected Services, have you tried unchecking the box for "Automatically improve the quality of downloaded payee names and categories"? That should disable the background renaming functionality. (But this might be a step backward for some of you other transactions.)

But from your description of the issue, something is changing transactions which already exist. The only way I'm aware that can happen is from interaction with Quicken Cloud. That's why my suggestion above was to blow away all your existing Quicken Cloud datasets, and to keep syncing turned off when you revert to an older data file. If you've done that, in the sequence I suggested, I'm afraid I'm out of possible explanations or things to suggest trying. 

jsurpless

@jacobs If I > @jacobs said:
> @jsurpless Just to clarify one thing: your investment accounts will export and import successfully; you shouldn't lose them in this process. But you're correct that you would lose all your reports, preference and account register settings, account logins, QuickFill rules, as well as budgets and attachments, if you have any. For this reason, I always say the QXF export/import should be a last resort in solving a problem with an existing data file. 
>
> So… alternatives? I am suspicious of problems with syncing with Quicken Cloud, which seems to cause problems for many people. You referenced earlier in the thread that you were using the web version. Here's an approach to try…
>
> Turn off Sync in Preferences > Mobile, Web & Alerts.
> Create a new file from scratch, and set to NOT use mobile/web. Don't connect any accounts; just create a manual account with no transactions.
> Go to Preferences > Mobile, Web & Alerts and verify that Sync is Off.
> Go to Preferences > Connected Services and click the See All Cloud Accounts button.
> Your currently open desktop file will the the one in bold; delete all the others.
> Restore your 2/1 backup again.
> As soon as the file opens, go to Preferences > Mobile, Web & Alerts and turn Sync off.
> You will get a message that a Quicken Cloud file can't be found; allow it to create a new one. If not, go to Preferences > Connected Services and allow it to create a new one.
>
> At this point your data is still correct, right? Verify that there are no QuickFill rules relating to AppleCash or Apple.  ave a backup of the file now. Then try to update your accounts to download transactions since 2/1. Your transactions transactions should download, and since there is none of your data in Quicken Cloud now, your data can't be overwritten by any Cloud data. Do the transactions come in correctly this time?

I just tried this again and noticed the transactions that are correct when I first open the file in its offline state, they are changed to 'APPLE CASH....' as soon as I create the Quicken Cloud file

jacobs

jsurpless said:

I just tried this again and noticed the transactions that are correct when I first open the file in its offline state, they are changed to 'APPLE CASH....' as soon as I create the Quicken Cloud file

Hmmm… Thanks for testing that. This seems to mirror some other reports  of users who have Cloud data overwriting local data even after deleting all their Cloud datasets, but your testing and reporting are quite clear and conclusive on that.

My understanding of Quicken Cloud is that if you delete all your Cloud datasets in a test file, then restore and open your real local data file, there should be no way for Cloud data to overwrite transactions in the local file because there should be no Cloud data existing to do that. But that's exactly what you've shown is happening.

I have two thoughts: (1) Could this have anything to do with Quicken's transition of aggregation platforms (from FDS to FDP)? (2) Is the deletion of the Cloud account which users can perform in Quicken Mac's Preferences > Connected Services screen not deleting the complete dataset when user delete the accounts in the list? I know there is some form of a "shadow" Cloud data file which is used to prevent duplicate downloads from a financial institution into both Cloud data and a local data file, but I assumed that deleting the visible Cloud data file would also delete whatever "shadow" data exists. But perhaps there's something not working correctly on Quicken's servers? We need someone from Quicken to weigh in on this.

@Quicken Kathryn Is there any known issue which could explain what has happened to @jsurpless here? I believe if we sifted through some other threads from Quicken Mac users in recent weeks, there are a number of other people who have described the identical problem. Simply stated the problem is this: a user creates a test file and deletes all other Cloud files, then restores a previous real data file, and when the user then creates a new Quicken Cloud account for that restored file, older data from Quicken Cloud flows into the desktop data, altering transactions in the local data file. How is that possible is all Cloud accounts were deleted? And what is the solution for users in this state?

jsurpless

So I decided to call into Quicken Support to see if maybe I wasn't following this thread well enough.

At their suggestion, I did a QXF export into a new blank file... there are other issues (one checking account has an incredibly negative balance and haven't figured out why yet) but the APPLE CASH issue has started happening again in it.

So I don't know what to make of that... their theory was that the database file had gotten corrupted somehow but given that the file was just rebuilt, it seems that this isn't correct yielding back to some sort of cloud issue?

jsurpless

So I don't know what exactly to make of this but it's been 3-4 days since the issue last occurred.

I was doing more troubleshooting by importing a QXF file (which eventually started having the issue). I tried deleting ALL of the Renaming & QuickFill Rules which seemed to stop the issue for some reason (even though there didn't appear to be any relevant rules). I then went back to my original file and amazingly the issue stopped occurring there as well, even though I *did not* delete the rules in that file?!?!