Will upgrading macOS do any good?

PW2
PW2 Member ✭✭
I've just gotten bit by the "This version of Quicken cannot use connected services" situation. I'm using Quicken 5.18.2 on macOS 10.12 (Sierra). I thought I could still download a Quicken file from my bank and import that into Quicken using Web Connect, but even that generates the "connected services" error message.

Quicken Inc. has said, "we will only support the last 3 releases of macOS." Depending on what they consider a "release" vs. an "upgrade," the best case is that they're still supporting 10.15. But Apple's website says that my iMac can only go to 10.13. Does anyone here know whether "connected services" are still working on 10.13? The Quicken error message says if I upgrade to 10.13 I can download Quicken 6.6, but does 6.6 support the latest "connected services" protocols, or would I be going through an OS upgrade for naught?

Answers

  • Quicken Jasmine
    Quicken Jasmine Moderator mod
    Hello @PW2,

    Thank you for contacting the Quicken Community with this question. 

    Could you please upload a screenshot of the message that you receive which states that if you upgrade to 10.13 then you can download Quicken 6.6.0? That would be very helpful in aiding us. 

    Also, I have included a link to a support article that discusses the requirements for the latest Quicken Version. You would need to update to at least 10.15.7 which is macOS Catalina. 

    https://www.quicken.com/support/mac/quicken-system-requirements

    I hope this helps and I hope to hear your response with the screenshot.
    Thank you. 
    -Quicken Jasmine
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    Quicken dropped support for macOS Sierra when version 6.0 of Quicken Mac was released in November 2020. At the time, the product manager said users with older operating systems would be able to continue using version 5.18.x indefinitely, but that future changes to banking infrastructure would likely break connectivity some day. I'm guessing that day has arrived…

    This announcement by Quicken last month stated that users of older versions of the software would lose connectivity due to changes to the back-end banking servers and processes Quicken uses. Technically, this refers to the migration from the aggregation service run by Intuit called FDS which has been replaced by a service called FDP. But you need not be concerned with the alphabet soup; the bottom line is that your connectivity is now broken because you're using an old version of the software.

    High Sierra (macOS 10.13) is still supported by Quicken Mac, even though it is actually five operating systems old (counting backwards: Monterey, Big Sur, Catalina, Mojave, and High Sierra). I have not seen any posts by High Sierra users that their online connectivity is broken, since they are able to run the latest 6.6.0 release. 

    So if you upgrade to High Sierra, you should be able to update to Quicken 6.6.0, and your connectivity should be restored. I believe that any Mac which can run Sierra can also run High Sierra, so you should have this path forward. 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • PW2
    PW2 Member ✭✭
    Thank you for the good news about High Sierra. I may wait a little while to make sure that no HS users post about connection problems!

    Yeah, Quicken sent me a message some months ago saying what their website says, "connected services may stop working in the future when we adopt new transaction download technology." But then I never heard more about it until suddenly it happened today.

    I do have my MacBook which is newer and can therefore run newer versions of macOS than my iMac. But I'd prefer to keep doing my financial work on my iMac.
  • PW2
    PW2 Member ✭✭
    Jasmine, here is a screenshot of the upgrade window, but as I mentioned, my iMac cannot run macOS 10.15.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    @PW2 Again, you do not need to be running Catalina (10.15) to use the current Quicken Mac. I have two computers on Mojave (10.14) which work just fine. And there has been no indication that High Sierra (10.13) is not fully compatible with the current Quicken Mac. We don't know how long it will be until they up the operating system requirement, but for now, I believe it is incorrect to state that you must be using Catalina to run Quicken Mac. 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • PW2
    PW2 Member ✭✭
    Thanks, jacobs, I suspect that Jasmine has been instructed to nudge users towards the latest version of macOS so they'll have the longest support window for Quicken, but since I can't do that, your real-world experience is very helpful.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    PW2 said:
    Thanks, jacobs, I suspect that Jasmine has been instructed to nudge users towards the latest version of macOS so they'll have the longest support window for Quicken, but since I can't do that, your real-world experience is very helpful.
    I guess that depends on your definition of "nudge".  There are a lot of possible combinations, and Quicken Inc isn't going to test them all.  So, yes, they are going to recommend the know tested combinations.  And if you want to try an unknown combination that is up to you.

    This is where a forum like this is useful since you can get input from other users that might have already tried a given combination.
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  • PW2
    PW2 Member ✭✭
    Hi, everyone. I took the plunge and upgraded to 10.13 High Sierra last night. I was then able to download Quicken Mac 6.6. It said it was connected to the Internet but a couple of refreshes failed to acquire transactions I thought should be there. I tried again this morning and still no transactions. I decided to disconnect and reconnect my bank accounts in Quicken, and that did the trick, whew!

    I don't know how much time this has bought me (note to Quicken folks: please don't change your transaction download protocols again any time soon!), but at least I'm back in business for now.

    Thanks to all for your help.
  • Quicken Jasmine
    Quicken Jasmine Moderator mod
    Hello @PW2,

    Thank you for posting a screenshot of the message that you were receiving, I appreciate that. 

    I am also glad to hear that you were able to download Quicken 6.6.0 and that everything is in working order. 

    Please do not hesitate to reach out with any further questions or concerns. 
    -Quicken Jasmine
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    @PW2 Glad you were able to upgrade and get back up and running. As you note, there's no certainty about when some future update will break compatibility with High Sierra, but at least you're functional for awhile. (And you've been given fair warning that at some point, you will need to update your more-than-a-decade-old Mac. ;) )

    @Chris_QPW While it's correct to point out that software developers often don't do extensive testing on older operating systems, I want to note that this has not been true of the Quicken Mac development team. The statement on the Quicken website of supporting the current and two most recent operating systems is merely a cover-their-butt broad policy that they will at least guarantee support for those operating systems. But the developers know if they are seeing bugs which only affect older operating systems, or if they are changing code which requires use of newer operating systems. The Quicken Mac product manager gave months of warning back in 2020 that because they were needing to do patches for older operating systems that they would be making a switch to increase the minimum system requirements to the High Sierra operating system. They highlighted this again when Quicken Mac 6.0 was released back in November 2020. I would expect and hope that the next time they find it necessary to up the system requirements — which is inevitable considering Apple's annual OS releases — that they will communicate to users the new minimum OS requirement. 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    jacobs said:
    But the developers know if they are seeing bugs which only affect older operating systems, or if they are changing code which requires use of newer operating systems. 
    I'm sorry, but I don't believe that.  Yes, there will be times where they might know what is being done might break the compatibility with a given operating system and let people know, but that is far from 100%.  It isn't 100% even when they do their testing.

    What the guarantee of two back versions really means is that if they break something that affects those versions and someone reports it, they will fix it.

    Let me state it a different way.  People come on here and ask about something on an old version.  How do you know what to give them as an answer?

    There are two possible sources.
    1. Your memory.
    2. You have the old version somewhere and actually test it.
    This really isn't any different for the developers letting people know about such compatibility problems.
    And we all know that our memories aren't perfect.

    I would be extremely surprised that as part of their normal testing they are testing even one version back let alone more than the ones they guarantee.

    The truth is that seldom do new versions of the operating system break things, and that is why the "two back rule" is more about policy than about actual functionality.

    And let me be clear about something.  The "connectivity problem" stated here has nothing to do with the operating system.  They needed to change the Quicken code to allow for the change down the line in the communications. Clearly that code doesn't exist in the prior releases of Quicken.  That is the main problem.

    So, one needs to get the release of Quicken that has that change in it.  As long as any changes from that old version to the new version weren't done because of some breaking change in the version of the operating system, there really isn't any reason why the new version of Quicken won't run on the old operating system.  But that doesn't mean that Quicken Inc will have tested it, and that if something unknown happens and it doesn't work, that they will fix it.
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  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    Chris_QPW said:
    jacobs said:
    But the developers know if they are seeing bugs which only affect older operating systems, or if they are changing code which requires use of newer operating systems. 
    I'm sorry, but I don't believe that.  Yes, there will be times where they might know what is being done might break the compatibility with a given operating system and let people know, but that is far from 100%.  It isn't 100% even when they do their testing.
    Chris, you can believe what you want, but I was just repeating what the Quicken Mac product manager previously stated. 

    I agree that they don't do extensive, if any, testing of the current software on older operating systems. But they certainly can know when there are issues with older operating systems. First, they may know that they are replacing a library or framework with a newer version of code not supposed by a particular older operating system. Second, they get bug reports, dig into them, and find they are specific to an older operating system. So at some point, they can block the current software from running on an older operating system, or just state that the older operating system is no longer supported. That's what they have done previously with Quicken Mac, and I'd hope that's what they'll do in the future. Perhaps the philosophy or practice is different on the Quicken Windows side. 

    Chris_QPW said:
    And let me be clear about something.  The "connectivity problem" stated here has nothing to do with the operating system.
    Your explanation is correct, but I think hits at the wrong conclusion. Quicken Mac users with active subscriptions who have stayed on the older Sierra operating system have previously been able to continue using the older 5.18 version of Quicken Mac. But that 5.18 version doesn't include the new code for the updated connectivity system Quicken has switched to, so users must upgrade to the 6.x version of Quicken Mac to continue to download — and version 6.x doesn't run on the Sierra operating system. So yes, the connectivity issue is directly tied to the operating system for those users: they must upgrade their operating system in order to upgrade their Quicken in order to continue to download transactions.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    I think we are just arguing about details and most of it doesn't matter.

    But in fact, whether you know it or not your statements just confirmed what I said.
    I said:
    here are two possible sources.
    1. Your memory (in this case the developer's memory).
    2. You have the old version somewhere and actually test it.
    #2 can be the users.  As in they report a bug, just as you said.  The developers "didn't know".  I have worked in software development for over 40 years, and I can tell you that you are giving the software developers way too much credit to know whether their new code will or will not work on the old operating system without testing.

    And it isn't even really about finding the problem, it is what happens next.  If it is a supported release, they fix the problem.  If it isn't they tell you to upgrade.

    And yes, it is important to separate operating system problems with changes needed because of downstream connection changes.

    Depending on which is the problem will determine how new an operating system you will need.

    As noted in this thread in fact 6.0 Quicken Mac will run on a lower version operating system than Quicken Inc states in their official documents.  And the only reason for that is the lack of testing with that combination by Quicken Inc.  On the other hand a true operating system constraint will not be able to be "ignored".
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