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Quicken Email - Wells Fargo Changes! (DC to Express Web Connect +) (edit)

Bob.

I just recived the following. Not enough info to know whether to panic yet or not, but does this mean that Direct Connect with Wells Fargo Bill Pay, which I have been using for well over a decade, will be going away? This is critical for me. Its how I pay all my bills.

Mods, Superusers - what do you know???

Your Wells Fargo connection is getting an update. Quicken has partnered with Wells Fargo for a faster, more reliable connection.

We are putting the finishing touches on the new connection now, but when we finish, you can expect fewer download errors and more reliable service—all through a more secure connection. You don’t need to do anything now.We’ll start notifying you within the next 30 days when it’s time to make the switch.

About to read their link….

~Bob

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Ps56k2

YUP - several of the Direct Connect and Bank Bill Pay institutions have migrated from DC to what is called Express Web Connect +

This is a "more secure" technology - BUT it no longer supports the uploading of transactions from Quicken to the financial institution -
Recent changes - Schwab, Chase, etc -

I was using Chase as my Bank Bill Pay - and after the change had to revert back to my old double entry method -
1 - make the Reminder entry in Quicken
2 - go to the Chase online website - and use the Chase Payment feature to actually schedule & pay the bill
two steps…. again - like the old days -

Rocket J Squirrel

I went through this with B of A. It's truly a pain you-know-where.

Bob.

[Removed - Rant/Off Topic]

Any suggestions for a way to pay bill continuing with Wells or another bank I can move to where I can pay bills reliably and ongoing through Quicken? Without this Quicken has little value. As of now, can only even add HALF at best of my online billers without crashing online billers.

I'm beside myself.

Rocket J Squirrel

I still pay my bills through B of A, but I have to go to the bank web site to do it. Then I have to enter the same data into Quicken, meaning I type in everything twice and hope I don't make any mistakes (which I have).

I have heard that PNC Bank intends to maintain Direct Connect, but who knows for how long. PNC is a "sustaining member" of the Financial Data Exchange, which is behind the switch away from Direct Connect. But apparently dropping Direct Connect is not a requirement for membership. Crystal ball is foggy.

Ps56k2

I think there is a FAQ list somewhere that lists various other banks that still offer Bank Bill Pay -
BUT…. that may be moot as more and more migrate away from Direct Connect to the Express Web Connect +

here is the config entry for WF - with the all important "payment" attribute - which is only available with the "Direct" protocol -

03000 03000 03000 Wells Fargo Bank
https://www.wellsfargo.com/ 1-800-956-4442
https://connect.secure.wellsfargo.com/auth/login/present ACTIVE
BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO,PAYMENT&DIRECT
BANKING,CREDIT&WEB-CONNECT
BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO&EXP-WEB-CONNECT

GeoffG

Sounds as if this may be EWC accounts only. See this thread for more…

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7941061/wells-fargo-ewc-ewc

Boatnmaniac

Here is the Support Article listing the banks that still provide Bank Bill Pay (via DC): https://www.quicken.com/support/list-banks-support-bank-bill-pay-quicken .

It is a bit out of date (last updated 5 months ago). It does include US Bank but it does not include PNC Bank which it should.

As time goes on this list will continue to shrink but since US Bank and PNC Bank (and now hopefully WF) decided to transition only EWC accounts to EWC+ and keep DC accounts in place it is pretty hard to predict which banks will also be eliminating DC in the future.

A big difference, IMO, between the US Bank and PNC Bank situations and the WF situation: DC provides a revenue stream to USB (both consumer and business accounts) and PNC (business accounts only) so they have a financial incentive to keep supporting DC. WF does not charge for DC so there is no revenue stream incentive for them to keep DC. Will that make a difference? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Bob.

Comments to your replies, Thanks.

@Rocket Thanks. What an absolute pain if I am forced to do that. Had always expected if I lost this. Quicken would have a bill pay that I could plug in to take its place. Does not seem that Quicken and Wells are in agreement on that.

@Ps56k2 and @boatnmaniac That FAQ is not only stale, it is inaccurate!! I opened an account at TD Bank to test and then was told Bill Pay there is ONLY for business customers! Closed the account. And St Mary's is baffled why they are listed. That file is near worthless. I'm shocked :)

I sometimes chat with developers. They seem to think this affects the EWC side only - meaning the Online Biller needs to change but the Checking Account can remain Direct Connect. I suspect that may not be true, but if it is, I wonder if a BofA user could see if that works for them. Then again, it might only be Wells that can work that way maintaining Direct for Checking and Bill Pay but forcing EWC+ for Online bill scraping.

Ahhh, @boatnmaniac, that is what you seem to say as well. I'm surprised. Are you confident the Direct remains - at least for now. Wells used to charge for Direct or at least a large minimum balance. That changed last year? But their savings interest is so pitiful they are making money from this feature.

And how about that logo? :)

Bob.

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20389326#Comment_20389326

Thanks. Appreciate that you posted this, Geoff.

I just sent the suggestion that they could avoid this angst if the emails and FAQ's were better written. Foolish oversights.

Boatnmaniac

@Bob. said:

What an absolute pain if I am forced to do that. Had always expected if I lost this. Quicken would have a bill pay that I could plug in to take its place. Does not seem that Quicken and Wells are in agreement on that.

I think Quicken and WF are 100% in agreement on the transition from EWC to EWC+. And if DC also transitions to EWC+ and Bank Bill Pay goes away they will be in 100% agreement on that, too. That's an easy one to understand because it is solely the financial institution (FI) that determines which type(s) of connection methods they will support, for which kinds of accounts and for which type(s) of services. Quicken has absolutely no say in that matter since it is a contract that the FI initiates with Intuit. And when a FI decides to make a change in what they support Quicken has no choice but to support that decision.

We should never assume anything about the FIs and what in Quicken they support. It is not uncommon for FIs make changes so we need to be able to roll with the punches and adjust to those changes in a manner that best supports our needs.

Quicken does have an alternate 3rd party service to pay bills from banks that do not support Bank Bill Pay. If WF does end up dropping Bank Bill Pay and we do not wish to change banks, then we can explore that option or:

Pay bills from the bank website.
Go to the billers' websites and set up pull payment transactions there whereby they debit our checking account.
Or go back to writing and mailing paper checks.

That FAQ is not only stale, it is inaccurate!! I opened an account at TD Bank to test and then was told Bill Pay there is ONLY for business customers! Closed the account. And St Mary's is baffled why they are listed. That file is near worthless. I'm shocked :)

One should not assume that Quicken has made any statement other than "these banks support Bank Bill Pay". They state several places in Support, Help and Community that some banks do place various restrictions/requirements on DC access and Bank Bill Pay service, such as: Some charge monthly fees, some have unique login requirements, some allow DC/Bank Bill Pay only for certain types of accounts and some allow DC/Bank Bill Pay for only premium accounts. It is the users who own contacting their bank to see what restrictions/requirements they have for both DC and Bank Bill Pay.

It's fair to say that list is a bit stale (as I'd mentioned, PNC Bank is not listed but should be) but to say it is inaccurate pointing to a TD Bank restriction on Bill Pay means you assumed something that Quicken never stated nor implied. To state that it is worthless is also an incorrect assumption because most of what is in there (from my review of the FIDIR.txt file searching for the word "PAYMENT") is quite accurate. And don't forget that there are business users who use Quicken, not just consumers, so for them including TD Bank in this list is quite accurate.

I'm pretty sure that Quicken does not know, nor has any desire to know, much of anything about what restrictions/requirements individual banks might place upon their customers if they wish to use the Bank Bill Pay feature. They leave that up to us to go figure out with the FIs.

BTW, I do not see St Mary's included in that list so it is not surprising then that they did not know what you were talking about.

I sometimes chat with developers. They seem to think this affects the EWC side only - meaning the Online Biller needs to change but the Checking Account can remain Direct Connect. I suspect that may not be true, but if it is, I wonder if a BofA user could see if that works for them. Then again, it might only be Wells that can work that way maintaining Direct for Checking and Bill Pay but forcing EWC+ for Online bill scraping.

At this time, of the banks that have transitioned to EWC+, only US Bank and PNC Bank have retained DC and Bank Bill Pay. All of the others transitioned their DC and EWC connections to EWC+.

EWC+ does not support Bank Bill Pay because it, like EWC, is a 1-way communication (download only). Bank Bill Pay requires a 2-way communications so the payment or transfer command can be uploaded to the bank from Quicken. BofA users no longer have Bank Bill Pay because BofA no longer supports DC.

BTW, FIs can support more than 1 kind of connection method independently of the others. Many support DC as well as EWC and WC. If a FI wants to change one of those connection methods to something else it has no impact on the other connection methods the FI retained. I have accounts with PNC and when PNC transitioned their EWC connection to EWC+ there was nothing that I needed to do at all. DC and Bank Bill Pay just continued as normal.

Are you confident the Direct remains - at least for now. Wells used to charge for Direct or at least a large minimum balance. That changed last year?

I think and hope that WF will retain DC…at least for now. But Quicken's announcement did not say anything about DC and until Quicken specifically confirms this I am not sure what will happen.

I do not recall exactly when WF made DC free but I think it was in Sep of 2019 or 2020 (for some odd reason I remember the months, just not the specific year but I'm pretty confident that it was 3-4 years ago). I just remember how happy I was when they did that because I manage my mother-in-law's finances and she has a WF checking account. It was so nice to finally be able to use Bank Bill Pay with them.

Bob.

@Boatnmaniac

"Quicken does have an alternate 3rd party service to pay bills from banks
that do not support Bank Bill Pay. If WF does end up dropping Bank Bill
Pay and we do not wish to change banks, then we can explore that option
or:"

I thought I mentioned that "service" will not work with Wells Fargo. At least today. And I do not know why not, but I know it will not. That was the fallback I was expecting, but Quicken cannot draw funds from Wells to make payments throg=ugh the Quicken (insert current name) bill poayment feature. And since I do not have that many bills to pay, if that was reliable and on time, I might be able to make it work. But nope. And with EWC+ grabbing the wrong amounts due 100% of the time for me (always .01 short), and sometimes wriong due date, that in itself is another obstacle.

There was a St Marys. Not sure where it went, but did not imagine it. I don't think :) BTW, I did call TD before opening an account to confirm. They never mentioned Business Accounts only. I did not find out until it failed.

I understand why EWC+ does not support Bill Pay. Not my issue. I have searched FIDIR for PAYMENT more times than you might imagine.

Now, multiple methods. I know for fact you cannot scrape Online Billers for Wells with EWC OR EWC+ and then have the Checking Account connect Direct Connect. Cannot. If you want Direct Connect (at least today) you MUST forgo (fargo?) the Online Biller. So Wells can support both connection methods but Quicken cannot. In exactly this way.

I could not tell from Quicken's announcement if they were saying ALL connections to Wells were transitioning to EWC + and then implying discontinuing Direct Connect. That is where my mind immediately went. Hence the expectation to have to scramble to see what will work for me to keep all my finances in Quicken and pay my bills on time and near effortlessly. I think I have some reprive for now.

Thanks for your thoughts! I need to see if PNC is an option.

Ps56k2

FYI - there are a handful of "St Mary" listed - you didn't indicate which exact name you used -

but here is - St. Mary's Credit Union - which has the magic "Payment" and "Direct" attributes

04232 04232 04232 St. Mary's Credit Union
https://www.stmaryscu.org/ 1-888-234-1346
https://secure.myvirtualbranch.com/bankatsmcu/signin.aspx ACTIVE
BANKING,ACCOUNTINFO,PAYMENT&DIRECT
BANKING&WEB-CONNECT
BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO&EXP-WEB-CONNECT

Bob.

@Ps56k2 THANK you! I knew I was not crazy :) Well, suspected, anyway. And indeed, that was who I went to see who had no idea even what Quicken was. They are local. Some of my family banks with them Would have been convenient.

Bob.

Even on their site….

Boatnmaniac

Ah, so St Mary's CU does offer DC Bank Bill Pay but it does not show up on that list. OK, so now we know of 2 banks that should be added to that Support Article list.

BTW, it is not uncommon for 1st Tier Customer Service people at banks to not know anything about Quicken or other technical services and issues. They tend to be young, inexperienced and are usually trained to deal with business related issues like helping to set up bank accounts, get your check blanks ordered, ordering you new debit cards, helping you to set up online banking, etc. Ask them about a technical service, such as downloading into Quicken (or any other 3rd party financial program) and their eyes glaze over and they say something stupid like "We don't offer that." When I get that type of response I will usually ask to be forwarded to their supervisor or to someone in the appropriate department.

Did I understand you correctly that you are disappointed because Online Bills cannot be used with DC's Bank Bill Pay? Online Bills is part of Quicken's Bill Manager service. So I would imagine that it can only work with Bill Manager's Quick Pay and Check Pay services. Quick Pay and Check Pay do not go directly from Quicken to the bank. They go to a 3rd party service provider. So I don't see how Online Bills could work with DC Bank Bill Pay. But I do not use Bill Manager so maybe I'm missing something here and someone will correct me.

If I misunderstood you and you are instead saying that DC Bank Bill Pay with WF is not working for you: That is odd. I am not having any issues with being able to use this service with WF.

You have your online account with WF already set up for Bill Pay? Many banks do not automatically set up online accounts with Bill Pay. Instead, the customer needs to request that it be set up. Usually, that can be done pretty easily from within the online account.

Have you checked to confirm that Bank Bill Pay has been enabled on the Online Services tab of Account Details.

Also, the Online Payees are different between Bill Manager and DC Bank Bill Pay. If you are trying to use a Bill Manager payee for a DC Bank Bill Pay it will not work. You need to set up new Online Payees for DC Bank Bill Pay and specifically for WF.

Bob.

You should know me by now that I do things in a little more depth, boatnmaniac. When I visited St Mary's I had their customer service call their internal support number to check further. Would not leave things on the clerk level. And you can see my search on their site returns a "huh" as well :)

You are either not understanding or incorrect in your thinking on Online Bills. TMOT. You are going off on tangents that could confuse others and perhaps I am not clear enough.

Let's say you have a checking account at Wells. It pays bills through Direct Connect.

You ALSO have a credit card at Wells. It will not work in Online Billers to get your next payment due unless set to EWC. It DOES work in th register to get CC balance and payments with Direct Connect.

Either BOTH Bill Pay through Wells AND the Online Biller must both be Direct Connect (which is no longer supported for Online Billers) or both EWC (or +) which will not allow Bil Pay at Wells through Direct Connect.

Is that clear? It is how things work today. Cannot have the On;ei Biller EWC AND the Checking with Wells Bill Pay at Direct Connect. Breaks things.

And to add to this th eQUICKEN Bill Payment "feature" - I can never keep the name straight, will NOT allow payment of a bill through Wells Fargo. Other institutions, but not Wells.

So ask me if not clear, but not worth going off in another direction. Belive me I have been thorough this and I unbderstand that which you are saying. But some you say no longer functions. Quicken's Bill Pay will not pay bills from Wells. Wells Bill Pay requires Direct COnnect. You can not have accounts connected in adifferent ways to Wells. Cannot have Checking Direct and Credit Card IN ONLINE BILLLERS EWc.

More clear? I hope :)

Quicken Kristina

Hello All,

For now, the upcoming changes to Wells Fargo's connection method should not impact those who connect via Direct Connect (DC). As the article about the upcoming change specifies, Wells Fargo will be discontinuing support for Express Web Connect (EWC) and moving to EWC+.

Screenshot 2023-10-09 at 11.52.25 AM.png

I hope this clears things up!

Bob.

Thanks. I confirmed the same this morning.

If the EMAIL and/or ARTICLE had simply said that Direct Connections and Wells Fargo Bill Pay through Quicken will not be affected, there would have been no confusion. But still good to know DC is still safe for the time being.

Randy 415

DC is safe for the time being, at least at some FI's. But the wave is coming. Prepare. I want to move to Quicken Quick Pay and Check Pay, as it is supposed to be a replacement. Alas, it is a poor execution of a fully featured Bill presentment and payment system. Rather than worrying about what the FI's will force Quicken do to with DC, I hope we can get Quick Pay improved or replaced with a better system that will perform like DC does today (or better!)

Great discussion. Thanks.

Bob.

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20390048#Comment_20390048

Problem for me, Randy, is that Quicken (name of bill payment ferature currently) will not work with Wells Fargo or I would have tried that by now. Unsure who is the culprit but suspect it is Wells that does not allow Quicken to write checks on their accounts.

I"could" open a new checking account elsewhere to test, but a lot of work to transition direct deposits, mothly automated bills, etc. And I have all that in place and working today.

But as you say, one day it will get more painful. Full bottle of Advil next to my monitor :)

Boatnmaniac

Quicken has updated the Announcement regarding WF's cut in of EWC+ and now confirms that WF's DC connections will not be transitioning to EWC+ at this time. Only EWC will transition to EWC+.: https://www.quicken.com/support/why-am-i-receiving-message-about-my-wells-fargo-accounts

Bob.

Hopefully this goes smoothly without "gotchas".

Thanks for the post.