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Tangerine Express Web Connect for the Canadian Windows Quicken Deluxe version

MinistryTruth

I am transitioning from Mint.com (which is leaving Canada) to Quicken Classic Deluxe. My father in the 90s and early 2000s used Quicken. In Mint.com, I had RBC and Tangerine synchronized. It sometimes glitched but, the sync mostly worked. From research, Tangerine Bank (a subsidiary of Scotiabank) only supports manually downloading transactions (Web Connect) for the Canadian Windows Quicken version. Tangerine Bank, according to Quicken Francisco, supports Express Web Connect for the US Quicken version. From other posts, possibly also supports Express Web Connect for the Mac Canadian version. I have a few questions (before I call Quicken support on a weekday).

1. Does RBC support the US Quicken version for Express Web Connect?
2. Except for tax reports, would there be any issue with using the US version
3. May it be confirmed if Tangerine Bank Express Web Connect works on the Mac Canadian version?
4. I recently purchased the Canadian version. How many days do I have to get a potential refund and exchange for the US version?
5. I am willing to use a Beta version of the Canadian edition if a fix is attempted. I have a degree in Computer Science and Integrated Science so, I enjoy experiments and prefer to be part of the solution. FYI: Tangerine Bank technical support might be unaware of the issue if, you need to coordinate with them.

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Quicken Kristina

Hello @MinistryTruth,

To address your questions:

Which URL (web address) do you use to log into the financial institution's website directly? Also, there is a known issue connecting with RBC Wealthmanagement US; click this link for details.
The US version is intended for use in the US and may not see financial institutions and/or accounts outside the US. You may also have issues with it defaulting to $ instead of CAD. Setting up CAD as your home currency may mitigate some of that.
There are currently known issues connecting to Tangerine. Please click this link and this link for more details.
Quicken offers a 30 day money back satisfaction guarantee. This article provides more details.
This link has info on the Beta program and how to sign up if you're interested.

I hope this helps!

MinistryTruth

Thank you for the response
1 I am not allowed to post valid links (new user) so, remove the square brackets for a valid link: [www.tangerine.ca]/app/#/login/login-id?locale=en_CA
2. Understood
3. Ok
4. Ok
5. I signed up for it and answered the Survey questions. Waiting for an email invite.

Steps to reproduce the issue:
1. Click Add Account

2. Select "Tangerine"

3. Press Continue

4. Instead of setting up an Online account, it has me set up an Offline account. This is the issue. With Mint.com, I was able to log in to the bank and have it sync my account.

Version info:

[Edited - Removed Personal Information From Screenshot]

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20406896#Comment_20406896

When people refer to "RBC" they are usually referring to "RBC Royal Bank" and not "RBC Wealth Management" or "RBC Direct Investing". However, RBC is present in the USA and Canada. A small number of the Canadian banks that have US subsidiaries - like RBC - seem to support EWC in both the Canadian and USD version of Quicken. So, my answer to Question #1 is "perhaps" - you'd have to test it.

Tangerine have a long running history of being problematic with Quicken; I don't know whether the issues have been resolved.

The Canadian dollar also uses the the "$" symbol. If you want contrast the two dollars, use "CAD" and "USD". Not "CAD" versus "$".

BTW, there is clearly a version issue with the OP's installation. The latest Canadian version is 52.26. Looks like the OP installed the US patch on top of the Canadian version, which will cause problems.

MinistryTruth

Thanks for the reply @Arctic Hare , the below might be valid as, clicking on tax features bring up web pages with broken links (a different problem which I would ignore until closer to tax time). I am downloading from [https://myaccount.quicken.com]/main?show-downloads=1&client=web&site=ca&domain=https://www.quicken.com/canada. I will try re-installing after work hours.
"The latest Canadian version is 52.26. Looks like the OP installed the US patch on top of the Canadian version, which will cause problems."

I downloaded again from the same link and, this time I installed using CrossOver (Wine container/bottle) in Ubuntu (as I dual-boot Ubuntu and Windows). Same version was installed (it does install a patch automatically during the install). Is there a way to download an offline archived version of Quicken? To test the theory.

JosefW

@MinistryTruth

I'm just guessing here, but Quicken may not be able to downgrade a version (R53.32 to R53.26) by installing over an existing version if they are 2 different versions. The reinstall will probably take its cue from the already installed version (US).

You could try un-installing Quicken, (Your data files will stay in place and your subscription should also be recognized) and then re-installing a clean version of R53.26 Quicken Canada Classic downloaded from here. https://www.quicken.com/support/update-and-patch-20182019-release-quicken-windows-subscription-product

Or try installing it on a different machine without Quicken already installed.

Here is a suggestion by Moderator Quicken Kristina on the issue of downgrading -

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7937055/how-do-you-go-back-to-previous-version-of-quicken

Also here is the link to multiple previous versions of Quicken Canada, but I think the link above should be good as it is the most recent Canadian version and seems to be same as the Dec 2023 in the list below - R53.26 (419 MB)
https://www.quicken.com/support/reinstalling-and-patching-your-quicken-subscription-version-after-your-membership-has-1

Re:Tangerine - I don't use it but it seems that others have had issues with downloading from Tangerine.ca - Below is a community discussion from Feb - In terms of setting up Web Connect or Express Web Connect, Web Express cannot be setup from within Quicken. You'll need to go to your account in the bank's website and then select "download" to "quicken" if it's available. That may be an option if Express Web Connect in Quicken doesn't recognize the connection.

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7903481/cant-download-transactions-tangerine-ca-bank

JosefW

@MinistryTruth

Out of interest I checked Tangerine's search page for downloading transactions. It should be possible using Web Connect. Here is a link to their instructions.
https://www.tangerine.ca/en/faq/answer?permaLink=how-do-i-download-transactions--generic-phone--en--0--1&responseId=219--n6COqvDkPKbzH-ZvDDvLROOJNKtyWfCW

Another guess here, if this method works, Quicken will register the connection as a Web Express connection to the account after it's been created as an offline account. At this point you may be able to edit the account and then see if it will allow you to setup the Express Web Connect.

MinistryTruth

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20407260#Comment_20407260

That is why I am experimenting on Linux (Ubuntu) using CrossOver Office (WINE) as, I can delete a bottle (container) which does a 100% uninstall and, reinstall in a new bottle. CrossOver Office WINE bottles are similar to Docker containers. Once I have it working, I can uninstall and reinstall it on Windows 11 or, just use it in a WINE CrossOver Office bottle.

MinistryTruth

The Royal Bank is working with Express Web Connect (like it did in Mint.com). It is Tangerine that can only do Web Connect in Quicken but, synced like Express Web Connect in Intuit Mint.com (before leaving Canada).

MinistryTruth

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20407260#Comment_20407260

I deleted the Quicken bottle and installed Quicken in a new bottle. I disconnected the internet while the installer was running (was at version 52), still could not do express web connect. I then installed the 52.26 update in the same bottle from the link you provided. RBC can do express web connect, Tangerine cannot. I did not click the Update button in the app. So, downgrading did not fix the issue.

MinistryTruth

I will attempt to contact Quicken by phone at a later date. There might be an issue with Tangerine bank since August 2022. They seem to have stopped supporting OFX directConnect (Open Financial Exchange) used by gnuCash (and possibly Intuit products). According to the log, the SSL validation of their OFX servers fails consistently in August 2022 and in April 2023, OFX validation fails completely. [www.ofxhome.com]/index.php/institution/history/794

Arctic Hare

If you want to look up with download methods are supported for each financial institution, you'll find that information in the Canadian FIDIR.TXT file on your computer. The file gets updated automatically periodically. For example, for Tangerine, only Web Connect is supported. Note, however, users have had issues with the Web Connect support for Tangerine quite often over the past few years. For RBC, both Express Web Connect and Web Connect are supported for banking and credit accounts.

10951 10951 10951 Tangerine - Personal Banking https://www.tangerine.ca/en/ 1-800-464-3473 https://www.tangerine.ca/app/ ACTIVE BANKING&WEB-CONNECT NOT_QBP NA

13543 13543 13543 RBC Bank - Online Banking https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/ 1-800-769-2555 https://www1.royalbank.com/cgi-bin/rbaccess/rbunxcgi?F6=1&F7=IB&F21=IB&F22=IB&REQUEST=ClientSignin&LANGUAGE=ENGLISH ACTIVE BANKING,CREDIT&WEB-CONNECT NOT_QBP NA
00016 00016 00016 RBC Banque Royale http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/business/online/online-banking.html NA https://www1.royalbank.com/cgi-bin/rbaccess/rbcgi3m01?F6=1&F7=IB&F21=IB&F22=IB&REQUEST=ClientSignin&LANGUAGE=FRENCH ACTIVE BANKING,CREDIT&WEB-CONNECT NOT_QBP NA
12088 12088 12088 RBC MasterCard http://www.rbcmcinquiry.com 1-866-298-9828 http://www.rbcmcinquiry.com ACTIVE CREDIT&WEB-CONNECT NOT_QBP NA
00015 00015 00015 RBC Royal Bank https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/ 1-2 (1-800-769-2512) https://www1.royalbank.com/cgi-bin/rbaccess/rbunxcgi?F6=1&F7=IB&F21=IB&F22=IB&REQUEST=ClientSignin&LANGUAGE=ENGLISH ACTIVE BANKING,CREDIT&WEB-CONNECT BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO&EXP-WEB-CONNECT NOT_QBP NA

Chris_QPW

So much confusion in this post…

About a year or so back the Quicken Windows Canadian branch was merged back into the Quicken Windows US branch and as such they are now the same program, but that doesn't mean that they behave the same. What's more it can be very confusing when different parts are mixed.

There is the subscription itself, then there is the data file, and finally there is which patch you are using. And to add to the confusion they released a R53.26 version for both (checking the number of bytes in each show they aren't the same patch).

All of these are going to contribute how Quicken behaves.

I will start with the statement that the connection types/financial institutions that each support are different. And almost 100% guarantee that you don't want to access a CAD account using Express Web Connect from the US list (and in some cases even from the Canadian list). The reason is that the assumption is going to be these are USD accounts.

Looking at the two different lists:

US:

https://ofx-prod-filist.intuit.com/qw2800/data/fidir.txt

Canadian:

https://ofx-prod-filist.intuit.com/qw2800-can/data/fidir-c.txt

What immediately pops out for me is that the US ones are all Express Web Connect only, and the Canadian (one) is Web Connect only. Express Web Connect is an "agreement on how to get the data" that might be a Web Connect/QFX file in the background or a CSV or whatever, we as customers never know. Web Connect/QFX file on the other hand is the "OFX response" in a file form that you import into Quicken after downloading it from the financial institution's website. Neither of these supports Direct Connect, which is Quicken's/Intuit's variation of the OFX standard (OFX standard with some extra fields for the financial institution information).

It is very telling that the Canadian list is Web Connect only, and that the US one is Express Web Connect only (you can't download a QFX file and import it when using that financial intuition selection).

So, what do each of these contribute (Subscription, data file, and patch)?

It is hard to pin all of it down, but I'm probably one of the few that has something that can give an indication of this, if not the complete picture. I don't have an active Canadian subscription, but because of doing a beta for it in the past I do have an expired Canadian subscription connected to my Quicken Id.

That allows this when creating a new Quicken data file:

So, as you can see, there are US and Canadian data file types.

US File:

Canadian vile (changing nothing else. Note that it had me log in with my Quicken Id while opening the data file):

So, basically, I was "switching the data file, and the Quicken Id".

The patch applied is the same US one.

I have no idea what the "patch" brings to the picture, but the very fact that the R53.26 versions in both are different implies there has to be something different, and you shouldn't mix them. Subscription, data file, and patch should all be for the same country version.

Now this is a Quicken Windows thread not a Quicken Mac thread so the original Quicken Mac question is probably better handled in a Quicken Mac category/thread, but I know enough about its history to tell you this.

It has a completely different list of supported financial institutions/connection types (the file references Express Web Connect, but in Mac it is really Quicken Connect which from what I can tell original was the "Mint" aggregation)

https://ofx-prod-filist.intuit.com/qm2400/data/fidir.txt

Quicken Mac was totally re-written starting in 2008 and from the start it had support for downloading transactions for both US and Canadian financial institutions in it. What's more there was no separation for the two different countries. It is also, "one program". A year or two ago they came out with the "Quicken Mac Canadian", but as far as I know all that did was set some of the defaults to be "more Canadian like". These same settings could be set in the "US version".

As far as multiple currencies go Quicken Windows Canadian has the best support (the only one that has an exchange rate history), Quicken Windows US comes in second, with most of what Quicken Windows Canadian has, but lacks the exchange history. Quicken Mac (either country version) comes in last because it basically just keeps different currencies separated everything.

As far as supporting "Canadian" things like taxes and retirement accounts and such. I don't think Quicken Mac has much of that at all, but that is something to ask the Quicken Mac users. The Quicken Windows Canadian version would be the best support, but bear in mind it is pretty clear that in a lot of places they just put lipstick on the US version.

Also, a lot of the features are Quicken Windows US only. In some cases, just because the service is only available in the US, and in other cases, like the Lifetime Planner (retirement planner), they just never took the trouble to write a Canadian version of it.

Arctic Hare

Adding to @Chris_QPW comments, also keep in mind that even when a Canadian and US Bank appear to have the same name (e.g. RBC) they are not the same bank. RBC is in the US is a subsidiary of RBC Royal Bank of Canada. The Canadian and US banks - with the same(ish) name may have different agreements with Quicken.

All said, use Quicken Canada only with Canadian banks. Use Quicken only with US banks. And, respect the connection types in the FIDIR.TXT. And, appreciate that some banks support Quicken better than others. RBC is quite reliable. Tangerine has been quite problematic.

Chris_QPW

Just mainly for @Arctic Hare (our Quicken Windows Canadian expert!), last night I thought "Wait Chris did you forget that the original install program for the two might be different?" So, I checked today, and even though the web page for the install flags them as separate if you download both you will find that they are in fact the same install program.

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20408214#Comment_20408214

Perhaps the only thing that makes Quicken Canadian or US is the Quicken ID. If true, that is, the reason why downloading a "US release" shows "Canadian" Quicken in the Help—>about dialogue box is because the "Canadian" identity is inherited from the Quicken ID, which switches features on and off to Canadianize the software. So, why then are there different releases for Canadian and US if it is the same package? Well, I expect it is because the patches (deltas to last version) affect the common+US code or Canadian specific code… or something along those lines. It would be logical that the Quicken ID is what determines whether the application uses the US or Canadian FIDIR.TXT. However, this explanation breaks down in light of the fact that it seems like we've seen cases where there is a "Canadian" version using the US FIDIR.TXT. But, maybe that has been more an assumption than fact?

Arctic Hare

@Chris_QPW I'm trying to understand what you mean in your post above when you say "all the Canadian ones are Web Connect". There are several Canadian financial institutions that support Express Web Connect. Did you mean "the majority" are Web Connect or am I misunderstanding what you are trying to indicate here? What may not be obvious to a non-Canadian is that the few Canadian financial institutions that support EWC represent the lions share of the financial services market. It is a classic 80-20 rule. 20% of the institutions have 80% of the market. So, in practical terms, the majority of Canadian users to have access to Express Web Connect - because the majority of the market is concentrated with those big players.

Chris_QPW

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20408319#Comment_20408319

A bit of missing context, that comment was made for looking for Tangerine in both of the fidir.txt files. I wasn't referring to all financial institutions, only Tangerine.

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20408318#Comment_20408318

To try to separate out exactly what is controlled by what is really hard, but let me talk about the fidir.txt file. I don't have an active Canadian subscription so can't show this in Quicken, but look at this search:

So, clearly once they know they are in a Canadian data file they switch which fidir.txt file they are using.

One of the first indications that they have finally merged the Canadian branch back into the US/main branch was that even though they didn't get rid of them people reported that you couldn't change the tax files anymore (and see Quicken use them). Given that both the US and Canadian tax files were at the exact same paths they definitely had to either change the paths or somehow incorporate them into the program or common configuration files, and that is what seems to have happened.

On is it the Quicken Id or the data file or both that makes it US or Canadian?

My best guess is that the Quicken Id decides if you are creating a US or Canadian data file. And in the case of a Quicken Id that has both subscriptions it prompts the user. Once the data file is created, it certainly has something in it that says "I'm US or Canadian". Whether the Quicken Id continues to "affect the results" past that, I don't have any way of knowing. Because I can't separate data file from Quicken Id.

For example. I was last in my US data file, and now I open the Canadian data file that created before:

Not only does it show Canada, but it also doesn't show the subscription as expired.

Let me give it reason to check the subscription, Help → Manage Your Subscription → Check Membership Status

It now knows that I'm "logged into" the US not Canadian Quicken Id subscription and prompts me to login again (to the Canadian subscription):

As for what patches bring to this table, I don't know. For sure there would be files updated and such, and in any given patch they might have only checked on and updated say the US files, and then later updated the Canadian ones when that patch is updated. And in this case "files" is most likely not qw.exe (which is actually not much code it the "outer shell" of the program that loads other DLLS), it is the "support/config" files that I'm talking about.

I decided to patch with the US R53.26 make a copy and then the Canadian one and do a difference on them:

Interesting enough is that they are still changing the Tax files. Why?

US file:

Canadian file (didn't change what patch was installed):

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20408340#Comment_20408340

The most interesting thing - for me - about all this is that the discussions that have focused on installing the wrong version (US vs CND) either as a full install or patch might be focusing on something that doesn't matter. Unless, however, the datafile somehow gets altered in a way that has been switched inadvertently between US and CND.

I am well aware of the different directories for the FIDIR.TXT and I've noted that both the US and CND get installed on my PC even though I've never used the US version of Quicken nor had a US subscription.