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Bill & Income Reminders with Splits Do Not Match Desktop Reminders Original Order

markus1957

Reminders splits in the Web app do not match the order entered for the splits in the desktop. If the split is updated in the web app, it is force sorted by amount from low to high.

This causes discrepancies in the desktop and when syncing, sometimes disconnects the amounts assigned to a category. Tax Planner then provides erroneous data and Reports based on category assignments are also affected.

The order of rows in split reminders should be preserved when synced or the cloud data is reset.

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Bill Reminders

split transactions

Comments

Jim_Harman

I see the same behavior and have sent a problem report. This appears to be the same issue that was reported in Moy 2025 and tracked as CBT-746.

Quicken Kristina

Hello @markus1957 & @Jim_Harman,

This issue looks like the issue you brought up earlier in the Tax Planner discussion:

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20537722#Comment_20537722

Is this the same issue?

Thank you!

Jim_Harman

Yes this is the same issue as discussed in the Tax Planner discussion.

Continuing that discussion, today I opened my test file with syncing and the Tax Planner amount due changed from $6,472 to $26,608. The Withholding amount changed from $57,772 (2,222 x 26) to 4,444. The 4,444 correctly indicates that I have accepted 2 of the reminders but none of the future Reminders is being included.

I have not accepted any software updates since the original issue; I am still running R65.29.

In the Withholding detail, the setting has changed from the correct Scheduled bills and deposits to Use pay period amount, which is zero. The future reminders look correct.

Looking at the split in the Reminder, the order of the split lines has changed again but each Category still has the correct amount.

I changed the Withholding setting back to Scheduled bills and Deposits and now the Planner shows a Refund due of $26,608, which is also wrong.

On the Wages page in the Planner, the Wages and Salaries - Self setting has been changed from Scheduled bills and deposits to Estimate based on YTD average. I corrected that setting but now the Withholding setting changes back to Use the Pay period amount.

I corrected both settings a couple of times and now the Tax due is back to the original $6,472.

But that's not all! If I leave the Tax Planner open and switch to my web browser to update this post or simply close and reopen the Tax Planner, both settings revert to their incorrect selections!

So it appears that the Tax Planner settings I have selected are not being saved.

I sent a Report a Problem report with a sanitized copy of this data file attached.

[update] I created another template file based on this problem file (v2) and it still has the problem. But I did a Validate and Repair on the new file and it reports "Corrected scheduled transaction." Now the Tax Planner settings appear to be sticky as they should be.

So the analysis to date indicates that syncing the data file to the Quicken Cloud reorders the split lines but keeps the amounts assigned to the correct Categories. Sometimes after syncing the Tax Planner settings are changed and if you try to correct the settings, the corrections do not stick.

When this occurs, doing a Validate and Repair reports that it corrected a scheduled transaction. Then you can correct the settings and the corrections stick.

markus1957

It's related. It makes the difference between the desktop and web app more apparent. It also provides a possible explanation for the scrambling of the order. When an edit to a reminder with splits is done in the web app, the split order is resorted by amount from lowest to highest.

There is also an added issue with income reminders for something like social security in the web app. The web app has no ability to schedule a social security payment on say the 3rd Wednesday of the month. So, if you update your social security reminder in the web app it will change the frequency to the 3rd of every month.

I'll also say that I've confirmed that the process I laid out (in the other thread) is more complicated than necessary to reproduce the issue.

Any reminder with more than 2 splits is almost certain to get jumbled by cloud sync, but if you create one with 5 splits it's pretty much a lock. The easiest way to reproduce the issue is as follows-

create a new file with one cash account
set up an income and a bill reminder, each with 5 splits. Note the order of the splits.
Mobile Sync should default to On in a new file so deselect the cash account from mobile sync so no accounts sync.
Then create a backup file using the backup routine. You'll use this backup to easily restore the reminder splits to their original order.
Then with sync Off, perform a cloud sync. You will note the reminders do not get jumbled and if you login to the web app, it will say no accounts have been selected.
Then select the cash account for mobile sync and perform a cloud sync.
You will notice the split order has been jumbled in both the desktop and the web app.
You can restore from your backup file and repeat as often as desired.

Adding- as @Jim_Harman has noted below. After several cloud sync sessions, it is likely that the amounts in the split rows will get disassociated from their original category. This causes erroneous tax planner projections and erroneous report values.

markus1957

@Jim_Harman Usually, when tax planner selections do not stick, that is an indication of a corrupted reminder. Try validating the file. You can also reset the tax planner to default behavior.

Jim_Harman

@markus1957 Yes, I found that when the Tax Planner settings do not stick, doing a Validate and Repair says it corrected a scheduled transaction and after that you can correct the settings and the settings will stick.

I will continue to monitor this and see if the problem returns.

markus1957

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20538139#Comment_20538139

I've found the corruption in the reminder follows a cloud sync, so it is related to this issue.

Jim_Harman

Experimenting further, I did a few Syncs and now the amounts and Categories in the split are no longer matched. This totally hoses the Tax Planner results, not just the settings, and Validate and Repair does not report a problem.

It appears that the only way to recover from this is to reconstruct the Reminder. To prevent it from happening again you must disable syncing or not use Reminders with splits.

I would be happy to work with someone knowledgeable from Engineering to help them resolve this problem.

Randy 415

Great stuff. Thanks. I hope Quicken engineering can reproduce and fix. It appears there are multiple issues with Cloud Sync.

markus1957

Update- I have it on good authority that as of R66, scrambled splits should no longer occur with Sync Off. The fix for cloud sync is more complicated and will take a while longer to resolve.

@Quicken Kristina this issue really should rise to the level of a product alert and be posted to that section in the community. As I understand the current status-

Quicken can reproduce the cloud sync process scramble Scheduled Reminders that contain split categories and over time the scrambling leads to amounts in the split getting disassociated from its original category.
In R66, Quicken has provided a temporary fix that prevents the scrambling from happening when the Mobile Sync preference is turned Off.
Work is ongoing to provide a fix for the issue with Sync enabled. Scrambled splits can cause the following behaviors-
- Tax Planner provides erroneous values caused by scrambled split categories.
- Reminders are corrupted by cloud sync and cause user selected Tax Planner projection settings not to stick.
- Reports relying on category summaries produce erroneous values.
- Corrupt reminders cause erratic scheduling of the next instance of the reminder.
- Paycheck reminders also get corrupted as they are special instances of a scheduled reminder.
- Deleted reminders return following cloud sync.
- Prior to the R66 partial fix, reminders could be scrambled/corrupted even with Sync Off.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your replies,

I added the information you provided to the ticket.

To clarify, does this issue happen with any reminder that has split categories in it, or does this happen exclusively with paycheck reminders?

Thank you!

(CTP-13929)

markus1957

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20538462#Comment_20538462

It happens with all reminders that contain splits.

Jim_Harman

@Quicken Kristina Thanks for following up on this.

I concur that the problem occurs with all split Reminders. See my detailed example with screenshots starting in the 4th comment in this thread on Feb. 15 and my Report a Problem submissions on that date referencing the old number for the scrambled splits, CBT-746. Is that report still open, or should we be referencing CTP-13929?

The split in my example was an Income Reminder with splits for salary and deductions, to show the connection with the Tax Planner, but it was an ordinary split, not created by the Paycheck Wizard.

And can you remind me what the difference is between CBT and CTP numbers?

Thank you.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your replies,

I'll forward that information to our teams.

To clarify, CBT-746 and CTP-13929 are the same ticket. Issues reported through the Community start out with a CBT number. Most CBTs will be converted to CTPs, unless they need to be assigned to a different team (for example, the QLH numbers for Quicken Lifehub issues).

I hope that helps!

Jim McLaughlin

As of March 21, this is still an issue that I discovered only today.

What is most disappointing is that for a significant bug as this, there has been NO notification to users of the problem or the recommended solution.

Shameful.

RedBud

I'm going to paste the details about what I learned from another topic that was closed for some reason because the problem doesn't appear to be resolved. And then add my experience since I made this change.

Similar problem. Six or seven of my reminders duplicated with different dates, I'd get double entries, wrong dates, or none at all. I use Windows 10, iPad and iPhone. I tried deleting the problem reminders from the Windows app. Then recreated them. After one or two syncs to the cloud the problems came back. My experience is this is related to syncing from my computer. So I logged into Quicken from the browser on my computer (didn't seem to work as well with the browser, Safari, on my iPad even when I requested the desktop version of the web page). I deleted the problem reminders and left things that way for several days and syncing several times. No more problems. So I added a couple of them back in using the Windows Quicken app/program. Did this several days ago, have synced a few times, and everything looks good. Going forward I am only going to create/edit/anything to my reminders (changing the amount, the date, etc.) from either Windows app or getting into Quicken from a browser. I had made some changes to some Reminders from my iPad and I think this caused the problem.

Now have another month where my reminders were entered into my file at the first of the month. My split entries didn't preserve the order but the $$$ amounts and associated categories were correct. So again, I will not create or edit a reminder from the app on my phone and tablet. Only from the Windows application or by working with my file from a browser on my computer.

markus1957

The latest update R67.7 appears to preserve the order and associated amounts of splits within Bill & Income Reminders after a cloud sync. Using my test file that could reproduce the scrambling of splits in earlier versions I have performed 2 cloud syncs and the split orders were maintained as they were established in the desktop file.

Using the Web App, I also edited the amounts in the splits and found that the split order was maintained. Previously the split would be reordered by amount when edited in the app.

Can others confirm this?

Quicken Kristina

Hello All,

If you are still encountering this issue in version R67.7, please let us know!

Thank you!