Unacceptable situation with OneDrive and Quicken
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I should clarify — I use Duplicati to backup all of my laptop's files, including Quicken. Runs once/day. Duplicati allows me to encrypt my backup with a key that only I have. It writes the backup to a local NAS and to OneDrive cloud storage that is associated with a different login then mine. (We have the family plan so we have a spare account that we use just for backups.)
So my quicken file is not sync'ed by OneDrive and I have 2 copies as well as the original. Not perfect, but reasonable.
I used to use Cryptomator + OneDrive to encrypt the local quicken file and keep it synced to the cloud. I eventually learned that both of those created performance and/or data integrity problems no matter how careful I was.
I would feel more comfortable if I could go back to using Cryptomator to encrypt the copy that is on my laptop, but I have accepted the limitations.
At some point I suspect it will make sense to migrate to Quicken Simplifi — it has come a long way in terms of functionality. I just want to see a couple of more years of not hacks before I go there.
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The only security concern is the same one you might have for any personal data that you might store on OneDrive. As in if ever got hacked, someone would have access to it. With access to your data file the risk all depends on what services you have enabled. They could read the balances/transactions and such. If you have bill pay on, they could make payments. If you have a Direct Connect account that allows transfers and bill pay they could do those operations. This can be partly mitigated by using a data file password, but note this isn't true encryption because Quicken Inc can bypass it, but it seems pretty strong.
I will note that I would keep my data file in OneDrive over using Quicken's Restore. Using it a lot has proven to cause the "not enough datasets error" that only Quicken Support can clear. Each time you do a Restore it creates a new Quicken Cloud dataset and there is a limit on how many can exist. What's more if that backup is even a day old sometimes it gets out of sync with the Quicken Cloud dataset and you end up having to disconnect and reconnect online services. Which sometimes results in duplicate transactions and such.
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Been using Onedrive for my quicken file for year without any problems. Maybe Intuit is just trying to get people to pay and sign up for their own cloud backup service.
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Intuit hasn't owned Quicken in many years. The company is called Quicken Inc.
And it has always been Quicken Inc's policy that the active data file shouldn't be on OneDrive, but that backups are fine there. So, their backup solution has nothing to do with this. What probably happened is they just decided that they can now detect when using the active data file on OneDrive and decided to give the warning. This is no different than the already existing warning about having your active data file on a network drive.
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Splasher and Pedro504 and Community
Are you saying that you keep Quicken on OneDrive but you pause syncing of One Drive while you are in Quicken? Are you pausing it to keep it safe?
I got the message saying I should store my Quicken data file on my PC, but when I tried to move Quicken to the Local PC, the directions said to put the data file in the PC User's Quicken Folder but there is no Quicken Folder on the Local PC. Should there be a Quicken Program Folder in the User Folder? Maybe it was never installed on the PC?
My data filer is on OneDrive. And all of my backups are on OneDrive. I understand that Quicken is telling everyone they're not safe. Not sure what to do.
Thanks for your help with this
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It is safe to store backups in a folder that is synched to OneDrive..
It is safer to store your data file in a folder that is not synched to OneDrive or another cloud system. That could anywhere on your C: drive that does not have OneDrive in its path.
One good place would be C:\Users\[your user name]\Documents\Quicken. If the Quicken folder is not there, you can create it.
It is confusing because if you accept the defaults when setting up a PC, OneDrive makes its own Documents folder and sets that as the default.
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Yes, I keep all Quicken files on OneDrive.
I Pause OneDrive for 2 hours, update Quicken then close it. Then either resume OneDrive syncing manually or let the 2 hour pause automatically expire.
You Don't Have to Have a Point, To Have A Point [Oblio, The Point!]
I sync with OneDrive at my own risk….. ⚠️
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I use Dropbox and have no issues with using quicken on two different laptops. Also works using iCloud.
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I've used Quicken with my Google Drive for more years that I can count and being able to use a local file is actually what solved many of the early problems. Since the local files are synced with online as soon as I connect, I am always using the latest copy of my data. The only caviot is I need to give my computer a few minutes to sync up if I have not been online (or on a different device) before I jump into Quicken. I have also been able to use the Google Drive revisions to restore previous versions of the data file (download and overwrite) on rare occasions when something gets messed up. While I have OneDrive, I don't really use it except for my pictures. That is mostly because Google Drive was more accessible back when I started using Quicken on multiple computers, and when One Drive became a thing, it did not seem to keep the updates synced as well as I was used to. Some people here have talked about the .log and .dat files. I have quit worrying about those, because 99.9% of everything I care about is in the .QDF file and Quicken rebuilds all of the other files as needed. The only other deep dive i have had to do is delete the old fidir.ini file when Quicken 'forgot' about one of my accounts during transaction downloads. That is a pretty nuclear solution but, again, if it is deleted that gets rebuilt by Quicken as needed.
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I'm not a shill for Quicken, but have been using Q for more than 30 years. If you haven't looked at the Quicken mobile app for ios iPad lately, you might want to. Clearly not as functional as my pc version, but it's all I need for a week or two while traveling. Might not work for everyone, but it's way more functional now than when it was first introduced. And, I do use OneDrive for backups, but use local file daily (and backup both on OneDrive and locally). I have been know to use a backup file from OneDrive with a notebook while traveling, but of course, it requires backing up to OneDrive before I leave and then again with the notebook so I can use that backup file with my pc desktop when I return. Not convenient, but works for occasional travel.
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There is another way to do if you want your Quicken file local and backups on your OneDrive. Use a VPN and Remote Desktop into the machine that has the Quicken file local. Use the Quicken app on the local machine to access the local file. I do it all the time and it works great. It just requires an internet connection.
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I've said this before. I store my Q data on a local drive (PC or Laptop). When I am done with my updates, I use the Q backup facility to make a backup on a local drive, and exit Quicken, Then using a Zip compression utility (that also encrypts the data), I select the Q files to go to a folder on OneDrive. This method allows me to have a copy encrypted on OneDrive so that either they couldn't crack if they tried. When using the OTHER computer (Laptop or PC), I DOWNLOAD the encrypted file back to the Quicken directory on the computer I am about to use. Yes, I have to remember where the most up to date data version exists, but (a): I don't run into any integrity problems (b): I am using OneDrive as a backup facility (in addition to the local backup I made earlier), and (c) the data is encrypted on OneDrive. Been doing this for as long as OneDrive has been around.
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Hard agree! Plus, I have been using OneDrive with Quicken for almost 5 years and have not had any issues (other than seeing OneDrive being unable to update the stored version of my Quicken file while it is in use by Quicken — duh — and that only if I happen to check my OneDrive status from the hidden icons thingy at the bottom right, next to the Windows task bar). Is this a ploy by Quicken to nudge us towards using their own back-up service? If so, unfairly badmouthing OneDrive is not a smart move!!
I have enough storage space on my two main PCs (one is a laptop for travel) that I always keep my file (currently 370 MB) stored locally on each PC. So OneDrive is merely for automatic back-up after I close Quicken each time (at least one daily). I can understand Quicken having an issue with retrieving a large file from the OneDrive cloud when starting up each time if the file were not stored locally. But if the file is stored locally (AND backed up on OneDrive), I don't see why Quicken should have a problem.
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"…I don't see why Quicken should have a problem. " As well as it shouldn't. In this scenario we use, Quicken knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about OneDrive. It is always using it's data on a locally stored device.
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I found this situation upsetting because Microsoft makes all your files go into One Drive unless you make all of the files available locally. What I did is: Step 1- moved the QDF into my local documents folder outside of One Drive. After each session I copy the QDF that is formed after ending a session and paste that into my Dropbox Quicken folder. That way if I want to use Q on another device all I have to do is double click the QDF Dropbox file and Q opens like it was on my desktop at home. After I close Q I just reverse the order and copy the QDF back into DB so it's available again. I just have to remember to copy it back into the Documents folder on the desktop so Q doesn't use the previous database. Maybe this is wrong, but it works for me. Fortunately, I don't use my laptop too often with Q, but if I do the info is there.
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I recently purchased a new laptop with Windows 11 because the now separated cousin of Quicken, Turbo Tax, doesn't work on Windows 10. I'm a 30+ years user of Quicken, but a 0 years user of One Drive. In the process of transitioning to the new laptop and experimenting with Synching and One Drive, my Quicken file was damaged. Data missing, data moved from one account to another, and other stuff that wasn't right. I don't recall seeing a warning screen as discussed in this thread. Fortunately, I had kept a backup of the Quicken data file. I didn't need another heart stopping moment like that, so I wrote off One Drive and quicken synching for now.
But, honestly, I have had a lot of other problems moving from my mostly good functioning Quicken on my old Windows 10 laptop to Quicken on a Windows 11 machine. My biggest issues now are regarding problems with Categories and Reports. I've never been more frustrated with Quicken. I'm nowhere near understanding coding, that's not me, and I don't pretend to know what I don't know. But as a long time Quicken user, it just seems that Quicken, like myself, has grown into retirement age and, also like myself, doesn't have the capacity or wherewithal to evolve in today's world. The Quicken team really needs to address the short comings of their product before customers start digging its grave.
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This is not a Quicken problem. You should not put any active database file in a cloud drive. A program typically makes many updates to the database file in a very short time period, perhaps dozens a minute, that cloud synchronization is not intended to handle. Store your backups in the cloud drive, not your main database.
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In general, I would agree about that databases need to have proper backup solutions and not be backed up at random times. But that isn't what is going on here for the most part. The Quicken data files is just that one file as far as the file system is concerned and it is locked when Quicken opens it. As long as the "cloud service" respects that lock it will work fine (which one exception I have mentioned above and will mention below again). For the most part all of the cloud services do honor that lock. There was a short period of time where OneDrive wasn't, but that has been resolved quite a while ago.
So, the Quicken data file doesn't really have the classic database backing up at the wrong time problem, but there are other potential problems that can range from minor to major.
Minor would be like you tell Quicken to do Validate, and it closes the data file and the cloud service jumps in and locks the data file so that it can do the sync, and in the meantime Quicken tries to reopen the data file to do the validate or has done the validate and now closes it and wants to open it again and can't.
You get an error message that Quicken can't access the data file, but the data file is still in a "good state".
More serious problems come up if one has the data file open on one machine and then opens it on a different machine. Not only is there the potential of loss of data, the data file is syncing some data with the Quicken Cloud dataset. And now when the data file is opened on the other machine that data file and the Quicken Cloud dataset, which can lead to all kinds of problems. Not to mention there is the problem that even if the Quicken Cloud dataset syncing problem wasn't there, you would probably lose any changes that were made on the first machine.
And there are other less likely but potential problems like opening up the data file on the other machine before it is fully synced to that machine.
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I had no problem with OneDrive either.
But what is suspect here is the sudden warning. Especially when it comes after Quicken has announced the new paid backup service. It seems the warning, although it is genuine, is timed to drive sales of the backup service.
I find that putting backup scheduling under preferences is not intuitively obvious when creating a backup is under the File menu. One would expect the scheduling to be there also.
I signed up for the backup service anyway, since having a copy in the Quicken cloud is worthwhile.
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Agreed!
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Thanks all for your contributions. There are some interesting insights here. I am a (very) long-time quicken user and a (pretty) long-time One Drive user. The only problems I have ever had related to cloud storage of my data file has been when I forget to close the app on one PC and open it again on another. In those cases, as I said earlier, I accept responsibility and anyway it's a really easy fix — worst case I've had to revert to a backup file that might be a day or two old.
My conclusions:
1. Quicken causes a lot more headaches than anything OneDrive does.
2. I can't accept that security is the issue when they suggest you put a backup file in the cloud that has the same data in it.
3. I'm simply not going to jump backwards through hoops to backup-restore-copy-move, etc. when I can simply close Quicken on one device before opening it on another one.
4. My next step will be to click the "Do not show again" box.0 -
my solution is to get off win11 and move to Linux. I like Quicken and have not found a replacement that is a native Linux app. Thus, i am running a win11 VM just for Quicken until i find a substitute or a better way to run it on Linux. My files are stored in the local Linux file structure and not in the VM, and i am responsible to do my own cloud backups with a service that offer better privacy than Microsoft I saw good comments in here about only using ondrive for backups. I have shared the live files on two devices using OneDrive in the past when on windows and olny a few times it was an issue. I cannot speak about recent updates.
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When I installed Quicken, the default was to put the data file under C:/Documents. I'd like to move the Quicken data to D:/Documents which is not synced. How do I start up Quicken so that it knows where to look for the new data file location?
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That's easy to do:
- Move your Quicken file to the new location you want.
- Launch Quicken (it will probably complain it can't find your file in its old location) which you can ignore.
- Select File > Open Quicken File… and in the file picker, select your Quicken file in its new location.
Now, when you run Quicken, by default, it opens the most recently opened file, which will now be your file in its new location.
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In the "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” department and to be absolutely clear (that might have gotten lost in this OneDrive discussion), your financial data if stored on OneDrive or Dropbox is susceptible to hacking/unauthorized access/Government access unless you pay for end to end encryption (Dropbox offers this servuce, OneDrive does not) as they (not you) hold the encryption keys.
That is the main reason I do not use the actual datafile that resides on Dropbox or OneDrive and only use it for backup purposes after I have manually encrypted my data locally.0 -
Even easier, after moving the file, double click on the .QDF file to start Quicken with that file and Q will remember where it is in the recent file list (File menu).
BTW, you want to move the WHOLE Quicken folder that is in the Documents hierarchy, not just the .QDF file.
-splasher using Q continuously since 1996
- Subscription Quicken - Win11 and QW2013 - Win11
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How do I get my file off One Drive. The instructions provided by Quicken do not work!!!!!!!
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superuser above states: "The problem with storing one's actual, "live" Q data file on OneDrive is that Q's database architecture lacks the "Lock", "Committ" and "Rollback" commands that would make cloud storage safe … and would be very complex to implement in coding as old as Q's."
This is bloody ridiculous, c'mon Quicken! Somebody please help them buy AI to rewrite the ancient Quicken program code. Unbelievable, for the price we have to pay today, that Quicken can't even flag its datafile as locked, etc?
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Thanks to everyone in this discussion, particularly Chris_QPW whose clear, detailed instructions enabled me to finally address this issue. It is something that I had been dreading ever since reporting an issue with an earlier Quicken update and being told that my OneDrive data file location was part of the problem. I was terrified to try and fix it based on Quicken's instructions alone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
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I think it would be more accurate to say that Quicken locks its data file while it is open, but occasionally it closes the file briefly. If the cloud sync process tries to sync the file right away and locks it while it makes a copy, Quicken's attempt to re-open the file fails, and it does not handle the situation gracefully.
I have seen this occur when opening a password-protected file, at the start of a Validate and Repair, and at the end of a session when backing up the data file. Some of these may have been fixed, but there may be other situations as well.
Pausing OneDrive while running Quicken is a workaround for this, as is moving your QDF file or better your whole Quicken folder to a location that is not synched by OneDrive.
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