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TROUBLE: Split Transaction Windows now have a bogus extra column on the right

varlene

Windows Quicken Classic Premier
Version R69.17
Build 27.1.69.17

While filling in split transactions, I use my TAB key to go from field to field and to the next line. Today after I entered the amount and clicked TAB and started typing into what should have been the next category on line 2, it turned out that I was typing instead into an empty cell to the right of the amount. Somehow, an entire extra column has been added to the right of the amount column. This column needs to be removed. It seems to populate itself with random numbers, but I can't figure out why it picks the number it does or if it is being saved somewhere and somehow impacting my data. Would someone from QUICKEN please respond. This is not good.

I called Quicken and shared my screen to display the problem, but thought I would post some screen captures here as well. Is there any good reason for this extra column to exist?

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Comments

Sceptic

@varlene that seems to be a new column that shows the split percent of each dollar amount. It becomes visible when you click the box in the upper right above the Amount column. Also note that the "Show %" check box doesn't appear until after you enter the split transaction into the account register.

When you check the box by "Show %", the column becomes visible

The column also seems to be read-only, so if you typed something in there, it had no effect. So I think your split transation is just fine, and there shouldn't be any issues with your data file, transactions or your account registers.

mshiggins

Interesting, from the 69.xx release notes, that must be this item:

IMPROVED Made memorized split percentages easier to find and use.

halhollis

I first noticed this "extra tab required" this morning while I was entering a split transaction, and I immediately came to this forum to see if anyone else is seeing this.

Now that I'm aware of the "Show %" box, I checked it, and I do see that column. I can tab into it, and I can change the percentage if I type a number, and the "Amount" number changes accordingly when I tab out.

However, if the box i unchecked, I can still tab into the column (though it is now barely visible), and typing a number there doesn't have any effect when I tab out.

I think this behavior should not be the case, i.e., I think the split window should behave as it has in the past if the "Show %" box is unchecked.

Windows 11, Classic Premier, Release R69.21, Build 27.1.69.21

UKR

I think this behavior should not be the case, i.e., I think the split window should behave as it has in the past if the "Show %" box is unchecked.

I second that motion.

BTW, the Split Transaction dialog also now has a new option at the bottom of the dialog. Works in conjunction with the "Show %": By Percent or By Amount
When it shows, click the (i) button next to it for an explanation

Sceptic

I think what needs to be done is make the field not selectable or changeable. Currently the field is selectable and even can be written in, even though it is read-only.

varlene

Thanks for letting me know this is a feature and not a bug. I see how it could prove helpful down the road and truly appreciate your taking the time to reply.

varlene

Thank you! It is somewhat disappointing that that the Quicken representative I spoke with seemingly didn't know about this either or would have pointed it out.

varlene

I agree that it would be great for Quicken to bypass that cell to the right if "Show %" is not selected. But as we don't know if that will ever happen, I will start retraining my fingers to always TAB twice after entering every amount.

varlene

Thanks @UKR. I see it now that I've learned about the "Show %" option.

varlene

I agree.

Chris_QPW

I'm able to change it.

Here is a start with $1000 in the deposit field and then open the split.

Now I put in an expense category and tab over to the % column and enter -50 and hit tab to go to the next line.

Now here it gets wacky.

I put in a new expense category and then -100 for the amount. The remainder isn't 600/60%.

And when I try to fix it, it gets even more wacky.

And look what I get when I switch on this option on my SS split transaction.

EDIT: If I'm entering just expenses, not starting with a deposit that then has expenses taken out of it, it works right.

Sceptic

It seems like that Quicken is making changes to this feature today. I swear that yesterday when I was looking at it, the percentages changed temporarily but always reverted back to the original percentages. Also the dialog and options that are at the bottom of the split window weren't there yesterday. This is not good.

Sceptic

I will repeat, this is not good. I just tested this on a transaction that is a split between a deposit with expenses taken out of it and it really screwed up the split. There is no way for me to get back to the original dollar split. I will repeat, this is not good.

Sceptic

@varlene as it turns out there seem to be a big issue with this new column for feature. As @Chris_QPW discovered and I also confirmed (the hard way) that changing the percentages will change the dollar amounts. I swear this didn't happen yesterday when I first looked at it. The percentage changed temporarily but always reverted back. Now it seems the percentage change is sticking.

Edit -maybe it's not as bad as I first thought. If the percentage column is hidden, there is no way to inadvertently change the percentages by tabbing into it. I guess if the column is showing, then care needs to be taken not to change the percentages.

Sceptic

@Chris_QPW I know it doesn't seem possible but it looks like changes to this feature is happening real-time. When I was first looking at it yesterday, I changed a percentage but once I left that split item, it reverted back to the original percentage. Now today, if I change the percentage it sticks.

Chris_QPW

I saw the same behavior (reverting) when I tried it on my SS Split as a test but saw differences once I created new split transactions.

Dialogs like these and the data feeding them are purely local. But that isn't to say that they can't have some crazy underline behaviors that change when not expected.

varlene

I wonder who asked for this feature. Wasn't me. :)

Sceptic

The reverting behavior I saw was on an older posted transaction. What it looks like is that for some transactions changing the percentages will change the dollar amounts, but in others it will not. But there is nothing that I have seen that would explain why. Also I don't see how this new percentage column would help the user with split transactions. @mshiggins mentioned memorized split transactions from the R69.17 release notes, but I have never used memorized payees, so I may be missing the value of this new feature or understand how it should work.

Chris_QPW

People have been asking for fixing the % entering of splits for years. Not a great start, but it is a start.

Quicken Kristina

Hello All,

Thank you for letting us know about these issues with the Split % feature! I was able to replicate the issue with the Split % column being present (and mostly off-screen) when creating a split transaction. Since this does not look like it should be intended behavior, I forwarded this to the proper channels for further investigation and resolution. If you would like to contribute to the investigation, please navigate to Help>Report a Problem and send a problem report with log files attached. Reference CBT-1265 in the description.

@Chris_QPW,

Thank you for letting us know about the math issue you observed. To clarify, does this happen only when starting with a deposit and adding expense transactions to the split transaction? Was the transaction total supposed to be $1000? When you tried to fix it, what changes did you make?

@Sceptic,

Thank you for letting us know you're seeing inconsistent behavior. To clarify, changing the percentage (even if by accident) results in the amounts being changed to match the new %, but this doesn't always happen in older (pre-update) transactions. Is that correct?

I look forward to your response!

(CBT-1265)

Sceptic

@Quicken Kristina I went back into several transactions for several accounts this afternoon and it seems now that all transactions are behaving the same.

Yesterday, when I changed the percentages, it didn't seem to affect the dollar amounts. That's what caused uncertainty. But what I see now is consistent behavior.

Bottom line - When you update the percentages for any of the split items, it recalculates the dollar amount. It seems that now this is happening for all split transactions.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for clarifying!

I forwarded your feedback internally to confirm whether it's intended behavior. I'll follow up once I get a response.

Thank you!

Sceptic

Thank you. It could be that everything is working as intended, but it took some users by surprise, including myself. If is working as intended, it just means to be careful not to unintentionally change those percentages when the column is displayed.

Chris_QPW

First problem, if you start a split transaction without either Payment or Deposit filled in the option never shown unless you save it and then restart. This might actually be intentional because before it saves the transaction it doesn't know that it is a deposit or and payment (it asks as you are saving it) but seems pretty confusing that is works like this.

Note I tested trying to add a couple of split lines and the option still doesn't show.

Now the main one starting with $1000 deposit:

Enter a 50% split line.

So far this is correct based on how it has always worked. Quicken is trying to maintain that 1,000 deposit. So, a line with 50% removal is countered by a 50% add.

The normal way to fix this to hit the Adjust button which tells Quicken to remove the split line it added and change the total.

The "normal processing" worked fine but look what happened to the percentages. 200% of what?

The more I thought about this, the more I see this my misunderstanding of what the percent column means.

It is 200% the $500 deposit…

That column should give more space so that the -100% will show, but the percentages are correct. What I was doing, and I think a lot of people would be doing is thinking you start with a 100% deposit and then go down from there. But one has to think about what information Quicken has for an incoming transaction. They have the net deposit or payment amount. So, the percentages work backwards from there.

If I have a deposit of $500 and an expense of $500 comes out before that deposit, then I started with $1,000. And that goes for the percentages too.

My apology to the developers and everyone involved.

So, there is the missing Show %, but that might be intentional since there isn't a clear way to determine how to handle it before they know if it is a deposit or a payment. I remember that this has been a sticking point before even without the percentage column.

And then the other minor fact that the column should be a bit larger.

But overall, a bit confusing, but it certainly a good added feature.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for the clarification!

I forwarded your feedback internally.

Tom Holz

Is there a way to just turn this feature off? I enter quite a few splits and the extra tab has messed up my work flow?

varlene

Been using Quicken for 25+ years and some habits are hard to break. I loved being able to get through an itemized listing quickly, and now it has become a chore having to remember to double-TAB, for every single item.

Quicken Kristina

Hello @Tom Holz,

Thank you for letting us know you're also seeing this! When creating a new transaction with a split category, there isn't currently an option to turn it off. The issue has been reported to our teams in ticket CBT-1265.

In the meantime, a workaround is to create the transaction first, then edit it to create the split. When editing the transaction, the Split % checkbox will be visible and appears to be off by default.

I hope this helps!

Chris_QPW

It worse than that. Even with "Show %" deselected, it still tabs into the "almost hidden" % field.

varlene

While entering split transactions, enabling Show % has the percentages clearly visible, so I am more likely to remember to tab a second time to move to the next line. I can then disable the Show % when I'm done as the percentages are meaningless in most of my split transactions.

UKR

If you're entering a memorized transaction or updating a reminder where all the Split categories and amounts have already been filled in and all you need is to update the amount …

tab to or click on the line 1 amount field, type in the updated amount
use the ↓ down arrow key to move to the amount on line 2
repeat updating the amounts on other lines and move down with ↓

Welcome to the wacky world of Entering Split Percent Transactions, V. 2

😉

Madison Home Mgmt

I wish we could turn this feature off. It changes whole dollar amounts to random numbers. When I try to correct the dollar amount, it offsets another one. UGH!

Madison Home Mgmt

I wish we could turn this feature off. It changes whole dollar amounts to random numbers. When I try to correct the dollar amount, it offsets another one. UGH!

varlene

Using the down arrow in the amount column works great if all the categories are already listed, say in a copied transaction, but I don't have many of those.