R52.33 - Unable to open data file on first try - then opens after pointing to file (edit75)
Answers
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Thank you for that information. Quicken Inc.'s blame-the-user attitude is inexcusable. Soooo many tech companies (and I once was an Asst. VP of one) prioritize new features over structural stability.
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@dmhump1, how is Quicken blaming the user when it was a Microsoft update to OneDrive that created the problem?
Quicken Subscription HBRP - Windows 100 -
I have also experienced the OneDrive synch problem that has been reported. However, the file can be opened from the File menu in Quicken and it works just fine with OneDrive operating in the background. In fact, OneDrive shows a synch error while I am working with the file in Quicken.
The error only occurs when Quicken is launched and tries to open the default data file.
I hope that someone from Quicken support can investigate. I have other software that launch files from the OneDrive folder without problems. If this was truly a OneDrive problem, I would expect it to affect all programs accessing the folder.
Ii believe Quickens Support team simply has blamed Microsoft, and stopped looking at the problem.
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Same….
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Something interesting -
If you open quicken to the password screen, onedrive icon shows synching. Wait until it stops synching, about 5 seconds for me, then put in password and file opens fine.
It seems (whether due to quicken update or onedrive update), onedrive is detecting a completed change to the file and trying to synch it, during which time quicken can't open it. This has always been the case, if you closed quicken then reopened it right away, it could not open the file as it had been locked for synching by onedrive. So for some reason this is now happening right when you open the file, but if you wait a bit it works fine without pausing synch…..
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No fix yet from MS or Quicken???
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MS won't be fixing anything, not their issue if Quicken doesn't support modern backup methodologies.
ETA for quicken fix is anyone's guess, maybe never.
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Will Microsoft do anything?
Hard to say because it is hard to pin down exactly what things don't work for some people. I don't keep my Quicken data file on OneDrive, because I decided to follow Quicken Inc's recommendation which has been around since OneDrive was first created. But I have tested with it on OneDrive, and it gives me no errors whatsoever. There might be some timing issues that Microsoft might address, hard to say.
As for Quicken Inc fixing the problem, again hard to say without pinning down the exact problem. Depending on what is causing the problem Quicken Inc's hands may be tied. If it is something at the heart of the code that can't be changed, then certainly it won't be. People seem to think that you can fix anything because the "soft" in ware. That isn't how it works. Programs are dependent on the infrastructure that they are built on, and you can't just swap it out willy nilly.
So, Quicken Inc may be forced to, or even just choose to point out, that not storing your data file in a "cloud folder" has always been the policy, and the user can "fix the problem" themselves by just moving their data file.
These days you can even have the automatic and manual backups go to wherever you like. Not to mention that one can write a simple script to copy the data file in and out of OneDrive if they like.
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I have found that first pausing OneDrive sync, then opening quicken seems to resolve the issue as a workaround.
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You said "I don't keep my Quicken data file on OneDrive" where do you keep it and how? Also, not sure I understand or know how to do the following, "These days you can even have the automatic and manual backups go to wherever you like. Not to mention that one can write a simple script to copy the data file in and out of OneDrive if they like."
Most of us are not tech savvy, we just want to keep are financials in order without going through a lot additional steps. If there is a simple workaround I think this will help all of us until a permanent solution can be found. Thus far, pausing OneDrive sync seems to be the simplest workaround.
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Like Chris_QPW, I don't keep my data file on OneDrive. I keep it on my internal D: drive in The Quicken folder under Documents. The point being made is that the folder where the Quicken data file is kept is not monitored and mirrored by OneDrive or any other cloud backup/mirroring service, so that the cloud service does not interfere with Quicken's access to the datafile.
-splasher using Q continuously since 1996
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Pausing OneDrive is a perfectly good solution, I just forgot to mention that one.
But to answer your question of where you could put your Quicken data file here is where I put mine.
Using Windows File Explorer, I created the folder: C:\Quicken.
Then using Window File Explorer, one would move the Quicken data file to that folder, and then just double click on it to open it in Quicken. From then on Quicken knows to open it from there.
The second part is making sure you have a backup of your data file.
Edit → Preferences → Backup
Select Automatic backups and then Change:
Now you can select for the automatic backups to be in your Documents\Quicken folder (which should be backed up by OneDrive). Make sure you also set the "Back up after running Quicken": to 1. That way it will back up after every time you run Quicken. The backups will be synced to OneDrive, and you won't have to worry about pausing OneDrive.
You can also setup the Manual backup reminder, if you like and save it to a different place just to be safe.
Note if you rely on OneDrive to sync the main Quicken data file so that it can be directly opened on another machine then pausing OneDrive while using Quicken might be your best option.
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Oh, so Microsoft did an update to OneDrive, and Quicken either didn't know about it, failed to prepare for it, or just didn't bother or notify its customers. Which answer reflects best on Quicken?
My "blame the user" remark was a response to multiple comments in this thread that we're not supposed to park Quicken files in OneDrive. And how were we supposed to know this? If the practice is so prevalent, as it obviously is from the 6 pages of comments (and counting), wouldn't Quicken have better served its subscribers with a notification? Maybe I missed it? Possibly, but I'm sure somebody would have pointed it out by now. I do remember getting an enthusiastic notification, complete with video, about the new logo and branding change. Well, whoopee.0 -
Microsoft doesn't notifily any one of changes it is going to make. How would Quicken Inc know something that Microsoft releases is going to break Quicken's functionality?
As for the policy I agree that Quicken Inc should have done a better job of notifying people that keeping your data file (not backups) on OneDrive wasn't supported. They really should have been proactive and tested for when people are putting their data files on at least the main "cloud folder" options like OneDrive, Dropbox, and Google Drive, like they do if you try to open a data file on a network drive.
But I'm pretty sure that if Quicken Inc decided that they would constantly put out emails to the users of what their policies are or even for problems that come up, they would get more complaints about that.
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You can get notifications of any and all upcoming/planned updates to MS products if you are a software developer (or even if you're not but not sure why you'd want them).
If you develop software for the MS platform, you should certainly be receiving those. Not that it is the first time a software company has been caught off guard by an update that changed a behavior but it isn't due to the lack of the ability to get the info.
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I guess you are correct they could "be notified" that something was being changed, but that wouldn't answer the question "Is this going to break something in Quicken". Only a full regression test would answer that completely. And I can't see the Quicken Developers and QA getting much done if for every update Microsoft puts out, they do a full regression test on every possible Quicken user use case, and setup, especially the ones that violate their polices.
People seem to think every company has resources that I can't see anyone other than company the size of Microsoft would have. And even then, they probably don't do it either because their resources are spread out over many different product lines.
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Nah, not expecting them to fully test every patch and update (though many companies do have this as part of their process) but developers can get on the early track for updates, install it before most other users, and know if something major breaks. Just in reviewing the release notes they put out every week, one would hopefully notice if there is some change to the way windows or onedrive is handling backups too.
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@dmhump1, prior to Windows 10 (& 11), OneDrive was optional and didn't move your Documents (and other folders) to sync with OneDrive. I blame Microsoft for being sneaky and moving Documents (and other folders) to OneDrive under the guise of backing up your files.
Quicken Subscription HBRP - Windows 100 -
@Chris_QPW I admit to not being techy and not fully understanding how OneDrive may work. But would like some input/advice on how to move or recreate my qdata file outside of Documents.
Currently, if I turn off WIFI (OneDrive is then off) and double click on the qdata file that is in the Documents/Quicken folder, Quicken opens just fine. When I click on Show this file on my computer from the File drop down menu, it shows the qdata file that is in the OneDrive folder not the file in Documents/Quicken that I clicked on. In the File drop down menu, if I select this same file (non OneDrive) I get an error message that says the file has either been deleted or moved. Is this normal with OneDrive or is it possible that OneDrive has somehow deleted or corrupted my original qdata file? My expectation is that my original qdata file would still continue to exist regardless of syncing with OneDrive. I also have specified the Documents folder as an Always keep on this device in OneDrive.
My guess is that if I use File Explorer to create a new folder outside of Documents, as you suggested, and then move this non OneDrive qdata file to it, I will still somehow be pointing to the OneDrive folder. If I do a restore from a current back up, it restores to the OneDrive qdata file. Since this Unable to open file issue was first reported, I have been keeping manual backups externally each time I use Quicken. Can I simply copy the most current backup to the new location using File Explorer or do I have to go through the restore process? I am not quite sure how to proceed without mucking up the works.
For now, I just continue to pause OneDrive before starting Quicken. I removed it from Startup so it requires a conscious decision to activate it after a reboot.
Thanks much for any ideas.
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FWIW, when you enable OneDrive, it changes the Location of Documents (and other folders) from C:\Users\<Username>\Documents to C:\Users\<Username>\OneDrive\Documents.
Quicken Subscription HBRP - Windows 100 -
Pausing OneDrive while using Quicken is a perfectly good solution. If you on the other hand want to move your data file out of OneDrive, I did post how to do it in a comment above. Here is the link to it:
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I don't consider it "sneaky" at all. OneDrive didn't move any files until I deliberately activated the service and started paying the $2/month. I don't need it for backup per se. I want to work in Quicken on my laptop, shut it down, and resume working on my desktop. The "always keep on my device" option worked just fine with Quicken for Windows 10 data files until recently.
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It is still optional they just default it to on if you log in with your MS account, so yes, sneaky. You can still disable/uninstall it and it moves your stuff back to the normal folders (or even if it leaves them there it won't have this issue anymore).
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One drive is enabled and included free (5GB storage) with all new windows installs, if you log into windows with your MS account, or associate your MS account with your "local only" login. So that's what people are referring to, you don't need to pay or activate anything, it is just there. You can disable it (or if you do a fresh install of windows, opt out of it), but most PCs you buy it will automatically enable when you set them up.
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You can create a folder under c:\users\[username] and it will not be controlled by onedrive, or you can go into onedrive and exclude your "documents" folder from backup, however obviously then nothing will be backed up. There is probably even a way to just exclude c:\users\[username]\onedrive\documents\quicken from backups. Personally I want my quicken file on onedrive because restoring a previous version is much easier than restoring a backup (should something get messed up). So disabling synch for 2 hours is how I've been dealing with it.
If you do go the route of creating a new folder outside of the onedrive folder, I would not call it "documents" or "my documents" as that may cause issues. Just call it quicken or whatever.
Probably can even create a batch file to first pause synch then launch quicken but haven't bothered to look into that.
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It one is going to use a batch file I suggest this which does a copy out and back instead trying to figure out how to pause OneDrive. Copy the following to Notepad:
@echo off
set DATA_FILE=Current.qdf
set DATA_DIR=c:\Quicken
set QUICKEN_DROPBOX_DIR=%USERPROFILE%\OneDrive\Documents\Quicken
IF EXIST %DATA_DIR% GOTO DIR_EXISTS
mkdir %DATA_DIR%
:DIR_EXISTScopy "%QUICKEN_DROPBOX_DIR%%DATA_FILE%" "%DATA_DIR%%DATA_FILE%"
IF %ERRORLEVEL% == 0 GOTO COPY_PASSED
start /wait cmd /C "ECHO %QUICKEN_DROPBOX_DIR%%DATA_FILE% copy of data file failed. && PAUSE"
GOTO END:COPY_PASSED
"%ProgramFiles(x86)%\Quicken\qw.exe" "%DATA_DIR%%DATA_FILE%"copy "%DATA_DIR%%DATA_FILE%" "%QUICKEN_DROPBOX_DIR%%DATA_FILE%"
IF %ERRORLEVEL% == 0 GOTO END
start /wait cmd /C "ECHO %DATA_DIR%%DATA_FILE% copy of data file failed. && PAUSE":END
Change Current.qdf to the name of your data file.
Save the file to wherever you like, and you can name it to whatever you like, but make sure that the end the name with .cmd instead of .txt.
Then in Windows File Explorer file that file and right click and hold on that file name and drag it to your Desktop or wherever you want to put the shortcut.
Select Create shortcuts here.
The last thing you will want to do it right click on the shortcut, select Properties and then change it from Normal Window to Minimized.
Now if you double click on the Shortcut it will copy your data file from OneDrive (Documents\Quicken) to C:\Quicken and open it there. When it finished it will copy it back. Note don't kill the terminal/command window that opens up minimized that is this script running.
As a side note, if one is working with Quicken and messes up royally and doesn't want to copy this bad copy of the Quicken data file back to OneDrive then kill that terminal window before existing Quicken and the copy won't happen.
Looks like this:
You can also rename the shortcut and give it a different icon if you like in the properties settings.
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Just looked into what one might do for "pausing" OneDrive kind of solution. There isn't a pause, but you can shutdown OneDrive, so here is what one might put in a command script (all the rest above applies except in this one there is no assumption about what data file is going to be opened.):
@echo off
"C:\Program Files\Microsoft OneDrive\OneDrive.exe" /shutdown
"%ProgramFiles(x86)%\Quicken\qw.exe"
"C:\Program Files\Microsoft OneDrive\OneDrive.exe" /backgroundSignature:
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Obviously would need a delay before restarting onedrive, could be as simple as using something like "pause 60", or to be really elegant, use a VB script to wait for some event before restarting onedrive. I was too lazy to toy with it. If it does prove that this never gets fixed I'll probably do something like it and just give it the quicken icon and replace the quicken shortcut in my taskbar with the batch file. For now, pausing it works (or even just waiting a while at the password prompt before entering the password).
The only concern is that if it is interfering with loading the file, it could potentially cause some other issues while you're working with the file, my fear of possible corruption has lead me to just use the pause synch until I'm done, and would probably lead me to look for a way to only restart onedrive once quicken exits.
Obviously the easy solution is to move your quicken file out of onedrive, but it actually works really well for rolling back after you've messed something up or tried something that didn't work, so I like having it in onedrive. Far better than restoring a backup. Copying out and back in each time with a script would work, not the cleanest solution though and still need to find a way to wait until you close quicken to copy it back in….
I know there used to be a way to run a file on start and another file on exit, I think it was an app that did that. Last time I needed something like that was a long time ago though.
Bigger fish to fry at the moment though.
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This line in the command script:
%ProgramFiles(x86)%\Quicken\qw.exe"
starts Quicken, and it won't go to the next line until Quicken exits.
There isn't any need for any kind of other delays. Of course, the very fact that is stopping OneDrive and then starting it after Quicken exits means there will be a delay while OneDrive starts up, but even if it was instantaneous it wouldn't matter. Quicken can't be writing the data file after it has exited. And even if the operating system hasn't flushed the file to disk yet, that will all be properly sequenced by the operating system.
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I haven't tried it obviously, I've found in some cases with batch files, once it has launched the exe it will move to the next line, and others where it waits for exit. I don't remember what exactly causes each behavior. If you remove the @echo off then it will be easy to see what exactly is happening in the batch file.
Another possible solution is if you typically use quicken around a certain time of day just set a scheduled task to stop onedrive and restart it a couple hours later. However if the batch file does wait for quicken to exit before restarting onedrive, that is the cleanest and most elegant solution, may give it a try and see if there are any odd side effects.
If you had asked me in 1995 if I'd still be using batch files in 2023 I'd have laughed, but I have task scheduler calling one every night to replicate my local external backup drive to an offsite SFTP server (after .zip'ing and encrypting the files obviously). So I have my local files, replicated to onedrive, copied nightly to external eSATA drive, then copied to SFTP server. Personally, I don't see that as overkill, have yet to lose a file ever. Exception is my music and movie collection which I have stored on the PC, external drive, and two different cell phones, uploading that via SFTP would just be a huge waste of time and bandwidth every night.
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