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1) Open file dialog every startup 2) no automatic backups, manual backup reminders

aw42pc

Windows 10 - Quicken Classic Business & Personal R60.18 27.160.18 Canada

I enabled OneDrive in Windows (using a local data storage backing i.e. not cloud only) which had the effect of moving the contents of my Documents folder to a new local storage location on my desktop computer. This new location syncs to the cloud.

Since then I have two issues:

1 - Every time I start Quicken it asks to open the data file which is now in the new local location i.e. F:\Storage\OneDrive\Documents\Quicken\QDATA.QDF

I have reinstalled Quicken but the symptom continues, it does not "remember" the new location.

2 - Every time I now end Quicken, it does not make nor remind me to make a backup before closing. The preference settings are:

Automatic local backups - Backup after running Quicken: 1 times If I choose the Open/Change backup directory links, it opens the correct local storage location.

Manual backup reminder - Remind me after running Quicken: 1 times

Instead the program just exits.

Please advise.

Regards,
Art Wiens

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Comments

Arctic Hare

Quicken is not compatible with OneDrive. The Quicken data file should be saved to a local (non-network, non-cloud) storage location and that location should not be synched to another location using a tool such as OneDrive.

aw42pc

Thanks for your reply however I read several other questions/replies where it was stated troubleshooting was occurring with developers and patches were being issued trying to resolve various OneDrive related issues. Did they give up trying to make it work properly? Is it stated somewhere that "OneDrive is not compatible"?

I can grudgingly accept that it is not compatible, but why doesn't it not at least "remind" me to make a backup before exiting if it can't do so automatically?

Regards,

Art Wiens

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20469350#Comment_20469350

If you search for posts on One Drive here in the community and do a similar Google search, you'll find many discussions of this issue. Considering all that information, is there a way to make it work? Perhaps, but you are increasing your risk of corrupting your data file. Some people have said it works OK if one pauses synchronizing when using the data file. That sounds complicated and risky to me. If you are determined to make it work, I recommend you research this thoroughly. And then, it is an "at your own risk" approach.

What is your rationale for wanting to have your Quicken data file in a OneDrive folder? If your objective is to access the file from more than one PC, then that is definitely a risky thing to attempt. If it is purely for backup, then I suggest you save your Quicken data file in a folder that is not synchronized and then have Quicken save backups to a folder that is synchronized or use another backup scheme. For example, I have a lot of data to backup, so I use Veritas System Restore to maintain a full system image, creating new base images monthly and incremental images daily. The images are saved to local drives (internal and USB attached). There are many other backup schemes that could be employed.

One of the complications with saving your active data file to a OneDrive folder is that Quicken syncs your data to the cloud even if you turn off mobile/web. So, in effect, you end up with two synch processes running in parallel. If you combine that parallel synch with an open - continuous write - database… there is potential for catastrophic results, including unrecoverable corruption of your data file.

aw42pc

Thanks for your reply. What I'm trying to achieve with my locally backed OneDrive setup is a form of "mirroring" between what is local to my machine and the cloud. I can theoretically lose my local hard drive or my connection to the cloud and not lose data. I think your comments of it being "complicated and risky" are not warranted. Once I do manually open the QDATA file, OneDrive simply gives a warning that the file is open by an application and can't be synced. As soon as I close it it gets copied up to the cloud. I have no qualms with this behavior. No real "potential for catastrophic results". I tell Quicken to make a backup of the file before I close the session and I see that file getting synced with OneDrive when it finishes. All good.

Getting back to my real issues I ask again:

Why does it not remember between sessions that my data file is on my local F: drive?
Why doesn't it automatically make a backup and/or remind me to make a backup when I close the program?

I can handle both manually but it's a computer … it should be able to do simple repetitive tasks so I don't have to! :-)

aw42pc

The "obvious" answer will be that it's all because of OneDrive, but yet Quicken can still automatically use this location for some functions:

The 2025-01-25 was my manual backup but it knew how to remove 2025-01-02_1 on it's own and knew where to store the log files … was able to access the F: drive / OneDrive location just fine.

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20473294#Comment_20473294

I don't know the answer to Question #1. I suggest you contact Quicken support regarding this issue. That being said, I expect that as soon as Quicken support recognizes that OneDrive is involved, they will tell you to use a local, unsynchronized drive instead.

The answer to Question #2 - this is a known problem. The workaround is discussed here:

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20462014#Comment_20462014

The method you are using for "mirroring" does present a risk of catastrophic file corruption. That risk is why Quicken doesn't endorse saving the Quicken data file to OneDrive. You are welcome to your own opinions and you should assess the risk and make your own decisions. It will work fine until it doesn't… and then you may have a mess that could be unrecoverable other than reverting to a backup. Personally, I won't be using OneDrive for my Quicken data file until such time that Quicken endorses such. It is OK to save your Quicken data file backups to a OneDrive location; just don't have the actively used data file stored in a OneDrive location.

Years ago, I was the victim of a couple Quicken bugs that caused catastrophic file corruption. I was never able to recover all my data - decades of it. While I eventually got some form of access to most of my data, I'm not exaggerating when I say I invested hundreds of hours working with senior Quicken tech support to get as much back as possible. I don't wish that experience on anyone!

mshiggins

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20473296#Comment_20473296

From the picture of your recent files list, it appears there is a space at the end of the Quicken file name.
QDATA .QDF
QDATA.QDF

Remove the space from the file name, that will fix your problem #1.

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20473593#Comment_20473593

@mshiggins

Good catch! Now that you mention it, I did see that space and momentarily thought it odd, but some part of my brain chose to ignore it. I note that the space is missing from the file path / filename provided in text format in the OP.

I'm curious whether you have any different thoughts on the OneDrive matter. Has Quicken quietly accepted OneDrive as an acceptable storage location? The last time I saw this discussed, Quicken was still taking a firm stand that the Quicken data file must be stored on a local drive (non-network, non-cloud) that is not participating in any synchronization/mirroring. Are you aware of any change to that position?

mshiggins

@Arctic Hare to my knowledge, there has been no change in the policy to avoid storing Quicken data in One Drive or other cloud sync folders.

Quicken Kristina

Hello @Arctic Hare and @mshiggins,

According to this article: Services such as OneDrive, Dropbox, or Google Drive can be used as a location to store backups of your Quicken data files. We don't recommend storing your active data files, or installing Quicken, on these drives. If you restore a backup that is located in your cloud drive, make certain the restored file is saved locally on your hard drive before using the file.

I hope this helps!

Boatnmaniac

From my perspective based upon the posting history in this Community: Saving, running or real-time syncing the main data file on OneDrive (or any other online storage service) is recipe for significant data file damage and data loss. Most of the time the data is simply gone and not recoverable and many times they can no longer open their data file at all. Some have posted that they were able to do this without issue for some time so they did not follow the guidance provided by Quicken only to end up later regretting it.

IMO, it's not so much a question if the data file will be corrupted but a question of when it will be corrupted. While it is safe to backup the data file to OneDrive, the only safe place for the main data file to be saved on and run from is the local hard drive and only in a folder that is not synced with OneDrive.

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20473632#Comment_20473632

@Quicken Kristina Speaking candidly, I don't find that very helpful for a couple reasons:

OneDrive is not exactly the same concept as DropBox and GoogleDrive. OneDrive utilizes one or more local drives that are synchronized to/through the cloud. Hence, if the Quicken data file is saved to a local folder that is included in OneDrive, it is still saving locally. OneDrive is not a direct save to the cloud. While I've used all three services, I haven't studied the current differences and limitations of each. So, I'm not going to get into a highly technical argument here (because someone is likely to jump in and explain how one or the other can be used differently).
"Does not recommend" is pretty soft, fuzzy language. If Quicken is certain that it is problematic to use these services for the active Quicken data file, then I suggest using stronger language, such as "Quicken strongly advises against saving your active Quicken datafile to any kind of network drive, cloud storage, or cloud synchronized storage as any of these can result in unrecoverable file corruption."

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20473636#Comment_20473636

As noted above, until such time that Quicken endorses saving the Quicken data file to any network, cloud, or synchronized storage location I plan to avoid doing so. I've experienced severe corruption of my Quicken data file in the past and it is a world of hurt I won't wish on anyone!

That being said, I do encourage Quicken to find a means to make it viable to save the Quicken data file to any or all of such locations as there are benefits to doing so.

SomebodyInGNV

Consider storing your Quicken file in a non-synchronized location and store your backups in a synchronized location. As the backups are created only periodically and not held open, it seems to me that they are unlikely to become corrupted and you have cloud backup of your backups.

I used to have Windows Home Server in its various iterations and licensed a utility that was basically a wrapper for RDP. I used it to run Quicken remotely on the server and store the data file locally on the server. That way I could run Quicken from any of my computers, including remotely because the Windows Home Server and the RDP wrapper supported that. But the data file was local to the instance of Quicken.

Microsoft dropped WHS (RIP) and I simplified my home technology with a Synology NAS. I run Quicken locally and open the file stored on the NAS, but only from my internal network. It's slow but allows me to use my laptop or desktop interchangeably. I switch back and forth fairly often.

Everybody here is about to scream that it's a terrible idea. I've been doing that for over a year without disaster and have plenty of backups should that happen. When I travel, I do so for months. In that case I'll move the data file to a non-synchronized folder on my laptop and backup to a folder synchronized by OneDrive.

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20473747#Comment_20473747

Quicken advises not to save the data file to a NAS, but I've never seen any explanation as to why that is problematic. In my view, it should not cause a problem. I also run a Synology NAS, but, to date, have kept my Quicken file on a local (internal) M.2 drive. Interesting to note that you haven't run into any issues using a NAS storage location, but that is actually what I would expect as long as you have a robust network.

Your approach seems entirely reasonable to me - despite Quicken's cautions.

Your advice to "Consider storing your Quicken file in a non-synchronized location and store your backups in a synchronized location." is actually exactly what I recommended much earlier on in this thread. The only downside to that approach, of course, is it doesn't facilitate multi-device, multi-location access to the data file. But, that, I think, is really what Quicken is trying to avoid. My understanding is that the architecture of the Quicken database (datafile) was simply not designed to be open on two different devices simultaneously and they are taking a conservative position to avoid getting into the exact specific of the circumstances that are likely to cause a problem. Hence why some people do things that are not endorsed and all is good; and other do other things that are not endorsed and run into massive problems. There is some gamble to all of this because of the lack of information provided as to what specific circumstances actually present a risk. It is a "buyer beware - proceed at your own peril" sort of matter.

SomebodyInGNV

The data file is clearly not designed as robustly as a multi-user file with user-level data locks. Being a consumer product licensed for single-user use, I can't gripe about that.

My network seems less robust than it should be but it works adequately for me. Maybe if I found the initiative to redo all the Ethernet terminations, replaced the switches and upgraded the router it would work better. I abandoned that level of effort years ago.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your reply @Arctic Hare ,

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20473754#Comment_20473754

Quicken advises against saving your main data file to a Network Attached Storage (NAS) because it makes it possible for multiple users to access the Quicken file at the same time. Quicken files aren't designed to handle that, and it could lead to serious problems in your file. For more information, please review the first paragraph of this article:

https://www.quicken.com/support/can-i-share-my-quicken-file-between-multiple-computers-using-dropbox/#:~:text=Never%20have%20your%20Quicken%20file,it%2C%20to%20prevent%20file%20damage.

While it does mention Dropbox specifically, the guidance provided is true for any setup that makes it possible for multiple users to access the file simultaneously.

I hope this helps!

Arctic Hare

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20473762#Comment_20473762

That is helpful clarification because saving to a NAS - or the cloud for that matter - can be done while avoiding multi-user simultaneous access. It is important clarification that Quicken's concern is simultaneous access from more than one user. That is different from being concerned with simple synchronization (e.g. OneDrive).

For example, I have a NAS in my home, but I am the only resident that knows how to access the NAS and I'm the only resident who uses Quicken. I don't presently have my Quicken file stored on the NAS, but if I did put it there, my reasons for doing so would be that the NAS is a RAID 1 (mirroring) configuration (protection against hard drive failure) and because I could then use any of the computers in the house to access the Quicken data file, understanding that I should only access it from one PC at a time. I have a very robust ethernet network, so file access times would still be good with a network storage location.

From this, it sounds like saving a Quicken file to a OneDrive location might be OK as long as one doesn't use that setup to permit more than one user to access the datafile at any given time.

Thank you for the clarification!

BTW, on a different topic, for some reason I am not receiving notifications of posts to this thread even though I am subscribed. Wonder why that is?