Implement Health Savings Accounts (HSA) (6 Merged Votes)

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  • Scooterlam
    Scooterlam SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited July 2023
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    Go to page 1 of the thread, find the OP. The voting bar is still there and

  • Quicken Jasmine
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    Hello All,

    The status of this Idea has been changed to Under Consideration as it has reached enough votes and has been submitted to our Product and Development team for further review.

    Thank you!

    -Quicken Jasmine

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  • Amo1
    Amo1 Member ✭✭✭
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    Please add the HSA account type and functionality in Quicken.

  • aaronj11
    aaronj11 Member ✭✭
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    Please revisit this feature request

  • google6761
    google6761 Member
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    Please add HSA Account Types & HSA Tax Forms. I have used Quicken to track my finances since 1990 and it is a great tool but I am considering finding another product for me because of the HSA Accounts I have. Our HSA Accounts are part of our Retirement and Tax Planning but your system does not support either. It wasn't that big of an issue in the past however things have changed and this is a bigger part of our planning for Retirement and Tax Planning Strategy so I need to be able to be able to include that in the planning or the money I am paying each year for Quicken Premier is useless. Based on the feedback I am not alone in my thoughts that Quicken needs to have HSA Accounts added.

  • Reluctant Manager
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    This idea was DECLINED in October 2023. Is it possible to add a Tax Line Item Category, either "1040 Adjustments to income from Schedule 1, line 26" or "Form 8889" ? This would take care of categorizing the income adjustment for tax reporting. Or give the user the ability to customize the drop-down items. Rather than requiring Quicken to make a change in the Tax Line Items whenever the IRS decides to update things, the user can customize based on their individual needs. 🙏

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    What was declined was a new account type for the HSA and such accounts, which was the original request. Then in this thread people started adding in things like the tax lines.

    The request for more tax lines should have been done as a separate request.

    These two ideas are completely different even if people view them as going together.

    I suggest that you post your idea for the tax lines so that people can vote on it. Go to the home page and select New Post → New Idea.

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  • MACMONEY
    MACMONEY Member
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    I agree 100%.. I don't want to track manually .. would be easy to allow Form 8889 to L2 to track contributions

  • Reluctant Manager
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    Thanks for the suggestion, I'm still kinda new at this. Would appreciate votes to get this idea to float. Thanks!

  • athensoh
    athensoh Member
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    I have run into the same issue. While setting a fresh Quicken profile on a Windows app, I found the software lacking more diverse classification for retirement accounts. Specifically for my situation, there is no HSA and Solo 401K (and I am using the business version of Classic). I am still evaluating a couple of different finance apps, and this definitely goes as negative for quicken.

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    As explained in the follow comment and one a bit farther down, a person can track an HSA by just using existing account types and the proper settings. One of the major problems with a single account type is that some HSA accounts look a savings account and some like an investment account, so there isn't one type that fits them all. But between setting the tax line of the account and the tax deferred setting you should be able to get it good enough to record it.

    You need define what you mean by a "Solo 401K" account. All 401K accounts are individual accounts, so I have no idea what you mean unless "Solo" is a financial institution. And if it is and they don't support Quicken, well that isn't Quicken Inc's fault, and it can be tracked in a manual entry account. I did for my 401K accounts, because download for them wasn't supported.

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  • Boatnmaniac
    Boatnmaniac SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Chris_QPW - To my understanding a Solo 401K account is one which has a single (i.e., solo) contributor. They are limited to business owners who have no employees so all of the funds for the 401K come just from a single source….themselves. While there are different contribution limits involved to my understanding the basics work the same way as with a 401K, such as contributions from self are pre-tax and income is deferred until distributed from the 401K account.

    Assuming I am correct about this, I don't understand how the current 401K account option in Quicken cannot be used with or is not compatible with a Solo 401K account. Perhaps @athensoh would provide some insight on this so we can understand the concern/issue.

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  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think that even if the rules and tax line items that go with existing types of accounts could be used, these users would like to see one or more specific HSA account types. Then when you go to add an account, "HSA" would be listed for example.

    At a minimum, I think there would have to be "HSA Savings" and "HSA investing" for example, even though these accounts can currently be set up quite well as a savings or checking account with the Tax deferred option selected and a Roth IRA.

    Setting up new tax line items specific to these account types to handle contributions to them and having them show up in the Tax reports, Tax Planner, Lifetime Planner, and TurboTax export would be another matter. I realize that supporting TurboTax export is probably a non-starter.

    Maybe in the meantime we could come up with a detailed set of instructions on how to use existing account types and tax line items to emulate these accounts within Quicken's current capabilities.

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  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    I would point out one thing. This is the current status:

    Submitted for review 8/17/23, CBT-125/CTP-7510 Declined as it will not be implemented at this time. 10/3/23

    So, either there is some kind of internal difficulty that we don't know about, or Quicken Inc just doesn't share the viewpoint that they should create a lot of new account types for what can already be done, even if it takes a bit of extra settings on the part of the user.

    So, a FAQ on how to set this up might be useful. On the other hand, it might delay Quicken Inc implementing anything else.

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  • Scooterlam
    Scooterlam SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
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    I have a solo 401K from Fidelity. There is really no difference in setup within Quicken - just set it up as a 401k and record and categorize your employee and employer contributions appropriately. Note, that the solo allows both owner and spouse to contribute, but no employees.

  • Agostino
    Agostino Member ✭✭
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    I have my HSAs set up as savings type but the important thing to me is the tax reports, having a distinction of 8889 would be helpful.

  • Chris Roat
    Chris Roat Member ✭✭
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    HSA support would be wonderful. I cannot see where to vote this up!

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    You would vote on the first page by clicking below this number (126):

    But as you can see this idea was declined by Quicken Inc and as such doesn't allow anyone to vote for it.

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  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Unfortunately it is not possible to vote on this Idea because it has been marked "Declined". The explanation says

    Submitted for review 8/17/23, CBT-125/CTP-7510 Declined as it will not be implemented at this time. 10/3/23

    That means it is off the table for the forseeable future.

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  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    I don't have a need for this, but given that this idea of creating an HSA account type has been rejected, I was wondering if there is at least another Idea that covers having the right tax lines?

    Note I have always thought they would have a problem with "creating an HSA account type" for the very reason that from what I can see they can take on the behavior of anything between a savings account, investment account or even a mix of the two and maybe even a checking account. Quicken's "base account types" investment and non-investment just don't lend it to implementing this kind of flexibility. It would have to be implemented as HSA savings, and HSA investment, without the "mixed ones" and then you can just use what is already there.

    I mean what is special about them that isn't already there, but would be possible to implement given Quicken Windows' base structure?

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  • QuickUserPSP
    QuickUserPSP Member, Windows Beta Beta
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    I think the reason why Quicken will never implement a special HSA account type is that most institutions that offer HSAs are unable to create a fully functional file for download. To work properly on Quicken an HSA account would need to be an investment account with a linked checking account. As far as I have seen, there was only one FI that was able to successfully create an update file that worked. It had both investment and checking transactions in one update file, but it was able to update the investment account and linked checking account without issue. Unfortunately, the FI exited the HSA business back in 2016 and I have not seen any other HSA provider be able to do this successfully since then.

    Even so, in my opinion, there are ways to set up your HSA accounts on Quicken that would negate the need for a special account type. If you set up a separate HSA investment and HSA Cash account, you can code the investment account as "tax deferred" but code the cash account as "not tax deferred". You can create additional income categories for the cash account that have no tax line items attached so they don't show up on tax reports. Or you can customize the Schedule B report to exclude the HSA cash account.

    The other related issue is that the tax code tables haven't been updated in a while and until that is done, a new HSA account type can only go so far for tax reporting and tax preparation.

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @QuickUserPSP sounds about right to me.

    I don't think a lot of people understand that for Quicken Windows' "linked checking account" are "virtual" none of the cash transactions are downloaded from any "cash/checking" account on the financial institution's site. So, to make it work when that is the setup, the financial institution would have to do some kind of "consolidating" of the two accounts for downloading.

    Stated a different way all the downloaded transactions in a linked checking account are downloaded to the investment account, and then Quicken pushes the cash transactions to linked account. There isn't a direct path between the "cash/checking account" if there is one at the financial institution.

    Quicken Mac doesn't have linked checking accounts, on the other hand, you can do all the same "checking transactions" in the investment account.

    It also occurs to me, that the main stumbling block is that in truth there probably isn't a financial institution out there that has both the banking and the investment in the same "group". It might look like that way on their website, but they are very separated in the real world. As such they either know how to send investment transactions or non-investments but lack the experience to do both.

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  • QuickUserPSP
    QuickUserPSP Member, Windows Beta Beta
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    @Chris_QPW - the FI I referred to does have an investment side and banking side under the same "umbrella" and the two sides worked closely together. More back then than now. There were a lot of products offered that "linked" the two.

    The HSA product was developed by the institutional investments group with a focus on the investments that could be offered. It was looked upon and treated as a retirement account. The file that updated Quicken was an investment file with cash (checking) transactions.

    But now the HSA providers are focusing on the checking (cash) piece, but the investment side is secondary. For the investment side they need to "outsource" or get services from another financial institution. That is why for a lot HSA accounts you can download the cash transactions, but not the investment transactions. And, even if you could download both sides, they are "disconnected".

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @QuickUserPSP I got kick out of the fact, that when I was setting my Chase accounts and they wanted to know if I had enough money in my accounts to qualify for "Private Client". What was needed was to check the investment accounts for my recent transfer from another financial institution, they had to look at my phone app to confirm it. That is because, it wouldn't show up on their systems for another couple of days (banking side)!

    This harps back to the good old days where the laws prohibited mixing the two. You have Chase and J.P. Morgan. You have Bank of America and Merril Lynch, …

    Another thing that impacts Quicken downloading is that a lot of financial institutions just pay a third-party for that service.

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  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Why not also make the HSA cash account Tax Deferred? Interest earned in that account is not taxed.

    I have yet to take any withdrawals from my HSA so I am not sure how they should affect the Tax reports or the tax planner. However I think withdrawals could be treated like distributions from a traditional IRA - not taxed as income but not deductible on Sched. B (like a QCD) if used for medical expenses, and taxed as regular income if used for other purposes.

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  • QuickUserPSP
    QuickUserPSP Member, Windows Beta Beta
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    @Chris_QPW oh I know about those situations. I have so many stories about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. That is what makes this HSA situation worse for Quicken as they are kind of caught in the middle.

  • QuickUserPSP
    QuickUserPSP Member, Windows Beta Beta
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    @Chris_QPW another tidbit - years ago there was a large health insurance and services company who bought out many major HSA providers. The reason why they were so intent was not because they thought these accounts were so lucrative, but they wanted these accounts for one main reason - Data Mining. Providing good service was secondary. Things have gotten better since then, but margins on these HSA accounts remain razor thin.

  • QuickUserPSP
    QuickUserPSP Member, Windows Beta Beta
    edited March 17
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    @Jim_Harman if you make the HSA Cash account Tax Deferred on Quicken, then any medical expenses, premium payments, and any medical related expenses, do not get pulled into the Schedule A report.

    I am surprised that you haven't used your HSA. And no, withdrawals from your HSA are not in any way like your distributions from your IRA. The only similarity is that you get a 1099 (specifically 1099-SA) for taxes. But the way you make "withdrawals" is totally different. You write checks or use a debit card for medical expenses. You don't make withdrawals except maybe to reimburse yourself for medical expenses.

    You also get penalized if you use your HSA funds for anything other than qualified medical expenses, unless you are age 65 or older. But even then, any purchase made for anything other than qualified medical expenses is taxed which defeats the purpose of a tax deferred account.

  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    HSAs have historically had high fees and expensive mutual funds on the investment side, but now Fidelity is offering no-fee HSAs with investments and cash all in one account.

    I guess they want to attract new customers. The market is growing fast, over $116B as of the middle of last year, and over 32% of people with employer sponsored health insurance now have HSA-qualifying high deductible plans.

    https://www.napa-net.org/news-info/daily-news/hsa-assets-continue-show-solid-growth-space-matures

    Despite the complexities, it sure would be nice if Quicken at least acknowledged their existence and offered some guidance on how to set them up. As I see it there are basically 3 configurations - cash only, for people who don't use the investing features, dual account, and combined account.

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