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Completely Disabling Sync

I know you are supposed to be able to turn off Sync in Preferences > mobile and web > Off, but this doesn't seem to completely turn sync off. I have on several occasions gone in and made sure it's off, logged in to the "see all accounts under this quicken id", deleted them, then watched one by one as they re-appeared after opening the file again (in addition, you can see the "syncing with cloud" when opening the files (why would it sync with cloud if it's turned off?!?!?!).

I am dealing with an issue with a couple of my data files where I am opening them to find a ton of blank/empty transactions. After running validate, super validate, and re-importing transactions, the blank lines are back. I can only assume this is because the cloud is holding bad data and is syncing.

I did a chat with QN support and they passed me off to another tech who called me and did a screen share session. They witnessed this issue first-hand and basically told me "tough luck; get a computer technician to help you". I am a computer technician and have not been able to figure this out.

Is there a way to completely disable cloud?

Is there a way to start off a new file without losing everything? I tried doing a QIF export and importing to a fresh file, but the data comes in with "Check# 2345 Check Withdrawal" and all descriptions are lost making it quite useless.

Best Answers

Answers

  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    There will always be a Quicken Cloud Account (QCA) for each of your active data files if for no other reason than to hold the subscription information. 
    You can delete them all you want, but a has to exist for every data file, no choice about it and Quicken will recreate them.  That doesn't mean it will have any transactional data in it from your accounts, that depends on whether or not you have set a data file for QMobile/QWeb access.  You can see if there is any data in a QCA by going to app.quicken.com and access one of the QCAs, you should find it contains no data.
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Boatnmaniac
    Boatnmaniac SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    (QW Premier Subscription: R32.12 on Windows 10)
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    adfar said:
    Is there a way to start off a new file without losing everything? I tried doing a QIF export and importing to a fresh file, but the data comes in with "Check# 2345 Check Withdrawal" and all descriptions are lost making it quite useless.
    I would first check the QIF file (it is just a text file) to make sure that the descriptions actually did get exported.  If they the didn't that would have to do with the problems in your data file.  For instance here is one transaction in my exported QIF file:
    PCostco Wholesale
    LGroceries
    ^
    D6/ 2'16
    U-5.59
    T-5.59
    CX

    Signature:
    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
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  • adfar
    adfar Member ✭✭
    > @splasher said:
    > There will always be a Quicken Cloud Account (QCA) for each of your active data files if for no other reason than to hold the subscription information. 
    > You can delete them all you want, but a has to exist for every data file, no choice about it and Quicken will recreate them.  That doesn't mean it will have any transactional data in it from your accounts, that depends on whether or not you have set a data file for QMobile/QWeb access.  You can see if there is any data in a QCA by going to app.quicken.com and access one of the QCAs, you should find it contains no data.

    This is just not true. At least according to the data available to us users. I have been able to delete and keep deleted the file data off of the cloud listing, however I still have a rogue machine or two misconfigured and re-syncing them.

    When I first started noticing this problem about a month ago, I went in and manually deleted over 100 files from the cloud list and as of today, only 4 have come back (incidentally the ones I've been having the blank transaction issue with). The files have most certainly been opened and used since then and yet they still remain deleted.
  • adfar
    adfar Member ✭✭
    So far what seems to work is:

    Create a dummy account with mobile sync turned on;
    Go to the "files managed by this user id page" and delete file;
    Open file that you deleted from cloud;
    Open preferences and go to QID and Cloud Accounts--should get an error;
    Click "try signing in with a different user id";
    Sign back in;
    You should be presented with the "Use cloud/mobile sync" and option to name file;
    Select DO NOT USE MOBILE SYNC/CLOUD;
    Click Done.

    This should allow you to now open the files at will without actually having them sync to the mobile cloud (at least according to the functionality QN gives us to see...there could always of course be other cloud/sync junk happening that isn't visible to us. Hopefully not since we should be in control of what data of ours is stored in whoevers "cloud". Especially financial data. Wonder if GDPR has made a visit to Intuit on this yet? Hm...
  • Boatnmaniac
    Boatnmaniac SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    @adfar - Every new file you create will create a new cloud file, even if you have Mobile & Web sync turned off.  If you delete the Cloud Account it will be regenerated when you open that Quicken file, again.  That cloud file has minimal data in it, mostly regarding your Quicken ID (no financial data) that authorizes you to open and use Quicken.  Also, if you use OSU for EWC downloads, your FI accounts and login information will be saved there so EWC can work.  This is all part of the license agreement we had to agree to before Quicken could even be used. 
    Note that if any of your data files are copies of other data files, those copies (whether they have a different name or not) will share the same Cloud Accounts as the original files.  So you could have a dozen different Quicken data files but have only 4 Cloud Accounts if the other 8 data files are clones of the original 4.  A shared Cloud Account will have the name of the file that originally created the Cloud Account.  Other files sharing that Cloud Account will not change the name of the Cloud Account.
    One question:  You mention multiple machines.  Are you running the same Quicken version on all of them or do you have some older (in specific, pre-2016) Quicken versions on any of them?  If so, that was in the days when Quicken was owned by Intuit and they would not have had the Quicken ID and Quicken Cloud Account's linked with them so you could create new data files for them and they would not have Quicken Cloud Accounts for them.
    (QW Premier Subscription: R32.12 on Windows 10)
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    adfar said:
    So far what seems to work is:

    Create a dummy account with mobile sync turned on;
    Go to the "files managed by this user id page" and delete file;
    Open file that you deleted from cloud;
    Open preferences and go to QID and Cloud Accounts--should get an error;
    Click "try signing in with a different user id";
    Sign back in;
    You should be presented with the "Use cloud/mobile sync" and option to name file;
    Select DO NOT USE MOBILE SYNC/CLOUD;
    Click Done.

    This should allow you to now open the files at will without actually having them sync to the mobile cloud (at least according to the functionality QN gives us to see...there could always of course be other cloud/sync junk happening that isn't visible to us. Hopefully not since we should be in control of what data of ours is stored in whoevers "cloud". Especially financial data. Wonder if GDPR has made a visit to Intuit on this yet? Hm...
    No. It doesn't.

    If you return to the dummy file with mobile sync turned on, you will notice the file has reappeared.  

    Quicken maintains cloud accounts (aka datasets) for every Quicken file we create.  When we open a Quicken file, Quicken attempts to synchronize state.   When Sync is off or no accounts have been selected to be synchronized, the data in account registers are not synchronized.  Other state is synchronized.  

    Also, Intuit sold Quicken over four years ago.
  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    adfar said:

    This is just not true. At least according to the data available to us users. I have been able to delete and keep deleted the file data off of the cloud listing, however I still have a rogue machine or two misconfigured and re-syncing them.
    Believe what you want, but Quicken creates a QCA for every Quicken data file.
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    @Chris_QPW:  The observation I find disturbing is an ever growing list of provider-logins appearing in the Cloud Sync Log.
  • markus1957
    markus1957 SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    @adfar - There is an in between error state you can get in with the Sync toggle off.  As you stated, OSU Summary shows some cloud syncing but the Sync toggle is off.  The steps you have taken should clear that state; it did for me when I experienced something similar testing the beta.

    This condition has nothing to do with a cloud data file being created.  As QPW and others have indicated, a cloud file is eventually created for every Quicken file, even if you can't see it with the Sync toggle off.
  • adfar
    adfar Member ✭✭
    > @Boatnmaniac said:
    > @adfar - Every new file you create will create a new cloud
    > file, even if you have Mobile & Web sync turned off.  If you delete the Cloud Account it will be
    > regenerated when you open that Quicken file, again.  That cloud
    > file has minimal data in it, mostly regarding your Quicken ID (no financial data) that authorizes you to open and use
    > Quicken.  Also, if you use OSU for EWC downloads, your FI accounts and login information will be saved there so EWC can work.  This is all part of the license agreement we had to agree to before
    > Quicken could even be used. 
    > Note that
    > if any of your data files are copies of other data files, those copies
    > (whether they have a different name or not) will share the same Cloud
    > Accounts as the original files.  So you could have a dozen different
    > Quicken data files but have only 4 Cloud Accounts if the other 8 data
    > files are clones of the original 4.  A shared Cloud Account will have
    > the name of the file that originally created the Cloud Account.  Other
    > files sharing that Cloud Account will not change the name of the Cloud
    > Account.
    > One question:  You
    > mention multiple machines.  Are you running the same Quicken version on
    > all of them or do you have some older (in specific, pre-2016) Quicken
    > versions on any of them?  If so, that was in the days when Quicken was
    > owned by Intuit and they would not have had the Quicken ID and Quicken
    > Cloud Account's linked with them so you could create new data files for
    > them and they would not have Quicken Cloud Accounts for them.

    Maybe it is creating them when the files get opened, but they're not visible in the "cloud accounts associated with this Quicken ID" table... https://imgur.com/sRbuQPQ (this is after deleting over 100 accounts a couple months ago and re-opening all of them multiple times since. The two listed there are dummy accounts made explicitly to delete the others. There was 3 in there yesterday when I was testing, but so far that one has not come back either since doing the method I posted above).

    Yes, I am very careful about making sure all of the machines have the exact same version/update running on them. It's only 9 Machines so not hard to do, but having seen the problems caused by versions getting out of date in the past, it is something I'm pretty militant about.
  • adfar
    adfar Member ✭✭
    > @Sherlock said:
    > (Quote)
    > No. It doesn't.
    >
    > If you return to the dummy file with mobile sync turned on, you will notice the file has reappeared.  
    >
    > Quicken maintains cloud accounts (aka datasets) for every Quicken file we create.  When we open a Quicken file, Quicken attempts to synchronize state.   When Sync is off or no accounts have been selected to be synchronized, the data in account registers are not synchronized.  Other state is synchronized.  
    >
    > Also, Intuit sold Quicken over four years ago.

    OK then explain to me why my list is empty: https://imgur.com/sRbuQPQ This had over 100 accounts in there a month ago, of which we've opened them all multiple times since and they have not reappeared?
  • adfar
    adfar Member ✭✭
    > @Chris_QPW said:
    > Depends on what you use, but most likely eventually you will use something that causes it to create the accounts.
    > After creating data file (TestQCA.QDF) (no accounts)
    > (Image)
    >
    > After delete:
    >
    > After open TestQCA and close.
    > (Image)
    >
    > After open and fetching default security prices.
    >
    > After creating an account with Direct Connect downloading (will do the same with Express Web Connect or Web Connect).  And any time you update the account the result will be the same.
    > (Image)
    >
    >
    > You will need to also avoid, online bills, credit score, X-Ray portfolio, ...,  And of course Quicken mobile/web.
    >
    > Note I went through the Bills and & Income to add a manual bill the result is that it created the QCA.  Using Ctrl+J to go directly to manual reminders didn't result it the QCA being created.
    >
    > And I suspect at least every once in a while they are going to check on the subscription which most likely will cause a creation of the QCA too.
    >
    > But personally I think trying to avoid the creation of the QCA is pretty "non productive".
    >
    > Since Quicken 2014, Quicken has required a Quicken Id, and by definition that means there is an account on the Quicken servers, and they will send information to it to support whatever features you use.  Unless you want to go back to Quicken 2013 this is just what you have to live with.
    >
    > But having an account on their servers doesn't imply "cloud sync". There is a very visible switch for that.  It implies that they are going to save what is needed for X given services that you are using.

    Thanks for the great write-up Chris. This clears a lot up. It seems like it's much more complicated than it should be to keep our data off of their servers. I also concur with @Sherlock 's concern of the provider-logins. Any rate, thanks again for the work on clarifying this mess.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    BTW note that because testing for various thing on this website I tend to create a lot of data files, and as you can see as soon as you do that you get a QCA.  Of course these are throw away data files.  So I delete them, but the QCA will not go away just because I deleted the data file.  So I have one data file setup to sync just so that I can use it to delete the "dead" QCAs.  It use to be that you could delete the QCA for another data file from any other data file, but they change it so that you can't see them if don't have sync on.

    Another thing that occurs to me.  The licensing isn't in the QCA.  There has to be a separate account on their server for that, the one that you log into on Quicken.com.

    Given that I could delete all my data files, and each one has a unique Id in it that connects the the QCA, then I could break the connection/licensing in that way.  And that isn't what happens.

    But again even though the licensing isn't stored in the QCA it basically looks like whenever they have to connect to "check on services" if the QCA is missing they recreate it.  So like I said it is doubtful you can for for very long without one getting recreated for a data file that you are using.
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  • adfar
    adfar Member ✭✭
    > @Chris_QPW said:
    > BTW note that because testing for various thing on this website I tend to create a lot of data files, and as you can see as soon as you do that you get a QCA.  Of course these are throw away data files.  So I delete them, but the QCA will not go away just because I deleted the data file.  So I have one data file setup to sync just so that I can use it to delete the "dead" QCAs.  It use to be that you could delete the QCA for another data file from any other data file, but they change it so that you can't see them if don't have sync on.
    >
    > Another thing that occurs to me.  The licensing isn't in the QCA.  There has to be a separate account on their server for that, the one that you log into on Quicken.com.
    >
    > Given that I could delete all my data files, and each one has a unique Id in it that connects the the QCA, then I could break the connection/licensing in that way.  And that isn't what happens.
    >
    > But again even though the licensing isn't stored in the QCA it basically looks like whenever they have to connect to "check on services" if the QCA is missing they recreate it.  So like I said it is doubtful you can for for very long without one getting recreated for a data file that you are using.

    This is what I've been saying: I don't think the licensing is linked to these since as mentioned I've deleted over a hundred of these files that have not reappeared since I deleted them over a month ago (and have definitely been opened since).

    I also agree on the dummy profile process; it seems to be the only way to actually delete all of the actual files/accounts due the fact you are unable to delete the currently logged in file.

    An interesting difference to your conclusions, though, is that we have indeed used download functionality in some of these files that remain off of the cloud. However, we don't typically use the QWC or other built-in web functionality. We go directly to the bank/CC website, download the files then import into quicken. Not sure if that counts as web connect or one of their other connect offerings, but still the case remains that we have been able to keep these files off of QC despite not changing any of our procedures (I guess the initial problem was that one of the machines had mobile/cloud turned on at one point and when that machine opened the files they got synced to the cloud which is why they were all up there in the first place). I've manually gone to each machine and made sure mobile sync was off and as well followed the above procedure for the 3 or four that made it back).
  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    adfar said:
    … Not sure if that counts as web connect or one of their other connect offerings, but still the case remains that we have been able to keep these files off of QC despite not changing any of our procedures (I guess the initial problem was that one of the machines had mobile/cloud turned on at one point and when that machine opened the files they got synced to the cloud which is why they were all up there in the first place). I've manually gone to each machine and made sure mobile sync was off and as well followed the above procedure for the 3 or four that made it back).
    Syncing is a local function turned on/off in every file, it is not a global setting in the program.
    You seem to not want to believe anything that anyone else says about this but your beliefs.  No one is going to be able to convince you of the otherwise.  Why waste your time, we can't get you to believe us when we are telling you facts.
    Quicken will re-create the QCAs at some point in time, you can continue to delete them, but as long as you don't use QMobile/QWeb, there will be no transactional data in the QCA.

    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    OK I will admit I never tried to see of Web Connect would cause a QCA to be created.  So maybe that one did slip by, and maybe it doesn't create a QCA.

    Direct Connect and Express Web Connect both will definitely create one.

    But to me it circles back to this.

    A while ago there was a guy that came to complain that with his ad blockers and such on that he couldn't use the Quicken Support form to contact them.  Now the people answering the question (including myself) figured the reason he was there was to get a solution/workaround so he could contact them, so we pointed out that various web browsers worked and he might have to turn off this setting of that.  But when it came right down to it he didn't want a way to contact Quicken support (or "not spying on him" was more important to him), he just wanted to complain about the site being "unsafe/collecting information"...

    Of course he never stated it that way.

    Why am I bringing this up?

    Here you have this one person going to extremes to avoid "spying on him", fine if that is how he wants to spend his life.  Whereas 99.999% of the people will just accept that this is part of using the product (whether that be the website or Quicken) and go on.  Somehow I think all the people will get along just fine, well sort of, that person will never be able to contact Quicken support.

    To me you have to separate the QCA and sync, they are completely different, and they have completely different risks.  I don't think there is a SuperUser that will suggest using the sync for their "real data file".  But a QCA is a completely different thing, and most would agree that jumping through hoops to avoid one being created is just not worth their time.

    I went through doing some tests of when the QCA is created mostly out of idle curiosity.  Yes I do go back and clean up "dead QCAs", but that is mostly just for the same reason I clean up temporary files I have created, I just like to keep things clean.  In no way am I trying to prevent them in active data files.
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  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    And on if the sync is global or set in the file.  It is definitely set in the file.

    That doesn't mean that after you have installed Quicken might not ask you about it.
    Quicken installs (actually first run of Quicken after the install) tries to help the user along in certain cases.  So yes it might ask at that point, but that doesn't dictate where the setting is applied to.

    Life and especially humans have to try to connect cause and effect.  When we see two things happen one after another we tend to believe they are "cause and effect", but without proper testing you can't be sure of that.

    You have jumped to the conclusion that because while you were installing Quicken asked you about syncing that it is "global".  Test it for yourself.

    One of the things Quicken does a bad job of in my opinion is the use of "similar names".  Like QFX and QXF, and Quicken Cloud Account, and Quicken Cloud Sync.

    This tends to get people thinking that they are all the same thing, and they aren't.
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  • adfar
    adfar Member ✭✭
    > @splasher said:
    > (Quote)
    > Syncing is a local function turned on/off in every file, it is not a global setting in the program.
    > You seem to not want to believe anything that anyone else says about this but your beliefs.  No one is going to be able to convince you of the otherwise.  Why waste your time, we can't get you to believe us when we are telling you facts.
    > Quicken will re-create the QCAs at some point in time, you can continue to delete them, but as long as you don't use QMobile/QWeb, there will be no transactional data in the QCA.

    Well, I can believe what people are telling me or I can believe what I see with my eyes. History has shown me to rely on the latter. Sorry. I also don't necessarily believe that these files aren't holding transactional data if you haven't explicitly set use mobile on because I have never set it on and have had it corrupt files. In addition, if it's not syncing anything other than say profile/account data, why does the "syncing with cloud" modal/spinner come up frequently and sit there for a good 20 seconds when opening files?
  • adfar
    adfar Member ✭✭
    > @Chris_QPW said:
    > And on if the sync is global or set in the file.  It is definitely set in the file.
    >
    > That doesn't mean that after you have installed Quicken might not ask you about it.
    > Quicken installs (actually first run of Quicken after the install) tries to help the user along in certain cases.  So yes it might ask at that point, but that doesn't dictate where the setting is applied to.
    >
    > Life and especially humans have to try to connect cause and effect.  When we see two things happen one after another we tend to believe they are "cause and effect", but without proper testing you can't be sure of that.
    >
    > You have jumped to the conclusion that because while you were installing Quicken asked you about syncing that it is "global".  Test it for yourself.
    >
    > One of the things Quicken does a bad job of in my opinion is the use of "similar names".  Like QFX and QXF, and Quicken Cloud Account, and Quicken Cloud Sync.
    >
    > This tends to get people thinking that they are all the same thing, and they aren't.

    Yes it is confusing that it sometimes asks you to use mobile depending on whether you had a file open when running an install/upgrade. It is also confusing because you may have turned sync off on one file on one machine, then you open the file on another machine and it syncs with a cloud file that has sync set to "on" thereby resetting the files flag to "on". Is this possible/happening? Maybe; we don't know because Quicken tells you "best of luck--get a computer technician to help you" when you contact them with a problem like this.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    I believe it is about time for the moderators to close this thread.  Nothing more to be said here.
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  • Boatnmaniac
    Boatnmaniac SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    adfar said:
    It is also confusing because you may have turned sync off on one file on one machine, then you open the file on another machine and it syncs with a cloud file that has sync set to "on" thereby resetting the files flag to "on". Is this possible/happening? Maybe; we don't know because Quicken tells you "best of luck--get a computer technician to help you" when you contact them with a problem like this.
    Yes it is possible...if the one file is a copy of the other file because they both share the same QCA.  That's what Sync is supposed to do...sync the files.  It will also add/delete categories made in one file that are made in the other as well as cause other potential issues (if they share the same QCA).  To stop that from happening, don't create copies of your Quicken files and attempt to use them for something else.  Instead, create new files for each new application so each will have their own QCA and then they won't sync with each other.
    (QW Premier Subscription: R32.12 on Windows 10)
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